Hard Drives Make a Difference in Sound

[coxhaus]

I just made a discovery that hard drives sound different. I may be the last to know, be here it is, I am stating it. I don’t think I am crazy. I do need some help with my next decision.

 

I decided Windows Server 2012 sounded better than Windows 7. The Windows 7 hard drive was a Hitachi 2 terabytes 32 meg cache drive. My Windows Server 2012 was an old Seagate 500 gig drive. The old Seagate was not big enough to hold all of my music so I blew away my Windows 7 and installed Windows Server 2012. Guess what it does not sound as good as the old Seagate drive. I am missing the richness which the Seagate drive has. I am pretty sure I have them setup the same but time will tell as I test further.

 

What I am stumped on is it the brand of drive or is it the higher compression and bigger cache which is making the difference. I need a bigger drive than 500 gig what should I look for?

 

 

My motherboard does not seem to support SSD. In fact it freaked my controller out when I tried one that I had to reset the CMOS to get it to work again.

[coxhaus]

I just tested my back up RAID5 drive which is a Seagate 1 terabyte drive today. It sounds much better than the Hitachi drive.

 

The 2 Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm drives sound better than the Hitachi drive. I think Chris recommends Seagate drives but he does not specify exactly which drives.

 

My testing consists of fdisking the hard drive and format on the install of server 2012. I then copy music, AMR USB drivers and JRiver down from the network. I setup drivers and JRiver and then play music. It is a pretty simple test.

[wgscott]

It is a pretty simple test.

 

Experimental controls might make it more compelling (and justify the definitive declaration in the title.)

[AudioDoctor]

Clone one drive to the other so they both have the same exact data on them, put one in the computer, listen to it, then take it out and put the other one in. Listen. Have someone else switch the drives while you are out of the room perhaps. Listen some more. Then come back here and let us know if you can tell the difference between two different HDDs in the same computer.

[coxhaus]

Cloning drives is no different than using the exact same hardware to install on different drives. The only thing different in the install is the drive. The same USB DVD drive with the same Server 2012 disk is setting on top of the server and is used to install the server software. It is then unplugged after the install and for play back. The rest is copied down from my server.

 

I can switch a drive in about 3 minutes. Even my wife says the piano sounds better on Diane with Chet Baker which is one of the CDs which I used for comparison. The CD has a lot of emotion if done right which is missing with the Hitachi drive.

[AudioDoctor]

Cloning drives is no different than using the exact same hardware to install on different drives. The only thing different in the install is the drive. The same USB DVD drive with the same Server 2012 disk is setting on top of the server and is used to install the server software. It is then unplugged after the install and for play back. The rest is copied down from my server.

 

I can switch a drive in about 3 minutes. Even my wife says the piano sounds better on Diane with Chet Baker which is one of the CDs which I used for comparison. The CD has a lot of emotion if done right which is missing with the Hitachi drive.

 

The purpose of trying it would be to eliminate as many variables as possible so you could then definitively say that the only difference is the HDD, because that would in fact be the only difference. I don't think you see that yet. I remain very skeptical that a different HDD brand would sound any different from another.

[coxhaus]

It caught me off guard. It took me 3 days to figure it out. I had to eliminate all possible things. The original server 2012 was built a while back so it was hard to know for sure but now after building a third drive which kind of eliminates any issues with the old first one. So am fairly sure there is a difference. I am looking for more drives to test.

 

I originally did not believe there would be a difference in sound between operating systems. But now I am a believer in it also.

[Superdad]

Are both of the hard drives using the same SATA interface connection in the computer?

 

You may have seen my long report about drive interfaces (admittedly with Macs) http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/my-deep-dive-media-storage-interfaces-musical-differences-heard-between-chipsets-firewire-400-800-usb-sata-flash-drives-sd-cards-and-network-shares-warning-may-cause-seizures-dbt-crowd-and-flat-earth-naysayers-18108/#post268712

, as well as the subsequent discussion about SD cards and RAM disks: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/attention-current-mac-mini-users-boot-mavericks-sd-card-load-ramdisk-dismount-your-internal-sata-drives-and-pour-drink-musicians-walking-out-your-speakers-18159/

 

During the process I also listened to 3 SATA hard drive mechanisms (a Seagate, a WD, and a Hitachi). I did not include mention of it in my report because, despite clearly hearing differences with interface methods, I heard zero difference between the drive mechanisms themselves.

 

Please confirm the drive interfaces and check for other variables. If you provide the exact model numbers and capacities of the drives, there is a database I can check to see how many platters/heads each model has. I suppose we can't rule out the possibility of some drives having electrically noisier electronics, or putting more ground plane noise back into your computer depending upon design and current usage.

 

It is true that when I tested differing brands of drive mechanisms (in the same external enclosure/interface/power supply), I was doing so through a controller bridge (FireWire 400 or 800, or USB), and not just with a direct SATA connection (some of my enclosures have eSATA connector slots, but Macs do not have external SATA ports. The only time I listened to an internal SATA drive was the Mac mini's internal 2.5" HD--and it then lost out to the very clear sound of SD cards, RAM disk, and a network shared drive (not in that order).

 

Regards,

ALEX C.

[sandyk]

coxhaus

What type of files are you playing ? For example,copying a .wav file to another location normally results in a small but noticeable degradation.

 

Alex

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD, you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist."-Cookie Marenco. cookiemarenco.com/

[coxhaus]

The drive interface is SATA and is internal. I am using the same interface and cables. The only change I make is the drive itself. What size were the drives you listened to? Were any of the drives 2 terabyte?

 

Here are the following drives:

1. ST3500641AS-RK 500 MEG Seagate

2. ST3310005N1A1AS-RK 1 terabyte Seagate

3. HDS5C3020ALA632 2 terabyte Hitachi

 

I can’t think of any variables I am missing. It seems like a simple install. I guess I could have a bad drive but it seems to run fine. I want to get my hands on a 2 terabyte Seagate drive. Let me know what you find out about the drives. The Seagate’s were older generation drives bought several years ago.

 

The files I copy are from first generation dbpoweramp wav files but they are the same exact files used for the copy. The JRiver and AMR files were downloaded from the internet. JRiver is unregistered but I have paid for version 19. I just have not decided on a hard drive for registration.

[Superdad]

The drive interface is SATA and is internal. I am using the same interface and cables. The only change I make is the drive itself. What size were the drives you listened to? Were any of the drives 2 terabyte?

 

Here are the following drives:

1. ST3500641AS-RK 500 MEG Seagate

2. ST3310005N1A1AS-RK 1 terabyte Seagate

3. HDS5C3020ALA632 2 terabyte Hitachi

 

Well let's see. The 500GB Seagate is a 7200 rpm, 6 head/3 platter unit with 16MB cache;

The 1TB unit (BTW you have an extra 3 in the model #) is 7200 rpm, 8 head/4 platter affair with 32MB cache;

and the Hitachi 2TB is 5940 rpm with 6 heads, 3 platters and 32MB cache.

 

So no clues there. I personally use single platter 1TB drives for reliability reasons. The units I swapped in (but heard no difference, likely because they were going through external enclosure bridges, not direct SATA) were WD, Seagate, Hitachi, and I did also run a 2TB of unknown brand (it's in an OWC enclosure with a 2-year warranty and a "warranty void" sticker over one case screw).

 

So I don't know. Guy going by Tranz on another thread is apparently running a SATA cable out from the inside of a Mac mini. Once he posts some pics or info for me then I can try the trick and try hooking up SATA drives externally. Then maybe I'll hear what you are hearing. I'm sort of hoping not to because this stuff is getting silly. But inquiring ears want to know!

 

--Alex C.

[sandyk]

coxhaus

Just to be perfectly clear here. So you have the 1st generation.wav files on a different drive altogether, and aren't copying them from the original Seagate HDD to the new one ?

Alex

[coxhaus]

It is true I rip on a different machine. There is no CDROM drive in my music server, only one hard drive. There also is no other software on the music server other than the OS, JRiver, and DAC USB drivers. I keep it very simple. No adobe or anything else. The wav files are copied from my ripping station on the network.

 

I guess from what you are saying I should map a drive and rip across the network to the music server directly.

[sandyk]

I guess from what you are saying I should map a drive and rip across the network to the music server directly.

If you are using .wav files, yes. If you use .flac then there won't be a problem. Like several others here, I find .wav files sound better than .flac. However, I find the difference is much less obvious with recent PCs and operating systems such as W8/64

BTW, a friend and myself both thought there was a small deterioration in SQ when going from a 500GB HDD to a 1TB HDD.

The difference may come down to different PSU demands ,and their interaction with other sensitive areas via the PSU ?

 

Alex

[Jud]

If you are using .wav files, yes. If you use .flac then there won't be a problem. Like several others here, I find .wav files sound better than .flac. However, I find the difference is much less obvious with recent PCs and operating systems such as W8/64

BTW, a friend and myself both thought there was a small deterioration in SQ when going from a 500GB HDD to a 1TB HDD.

The difference may come down to different PSU demands ,and their interaction with other sensitive areas via the PSU ?

 

Alex

 

A cable manufacturer I spoke to on the phone about several things computer audio related recently said to me the smaller capacity HDDs in a manufacturer's lineup will usually sound better due to fewer spinning platters and less vibration. Seems like an argument for being able to conveniently play back from something that doesn't have mechanical vibration, while perhaps storing in something larger capacity that (at least these days among affordable choices) does.

[Audio_ELF]

Different drives have differing power requirements so it is possible that interference is being transferred to your DAC... but it shouldn't!

 

Eloise

[davide256]

I don't doubt that different harddrive technologies sound different. I've heard audible differences within all storage media I have used. Not sure that within like drives from different manufacturers that I've heard differences mattering musically but differing technology always has better/worse musical signature. Right now I'm puzzling over SSD for media drive which seems to have a bipolar disorder :<)

[BobP63]

I personally use single platter 1TB drives for reliability reasons.

 

What drives are you using that match this configuration? How do they compare in terms of noise to multi-platter units? I plan on utilizing an SD card for playback if for nothing else but to eliminate my hard drive noise.

[Superdad]

What drives are you using that match this configuration? How do they compare in terms of noise to multi-platter units? I plan on utilizing an SD card for playback if for nothing else but to eliminate my hard drive noise.

 

The newest, quietest, and most available for good price, single platter raw drive I am using is the 1TB Western Digital WD10EZRX. $67 on Amazon (Amazon.com: WD Green 1 TB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA III, 64 MB Cache - WD10EZRX: Computers & Accessories)

 

I use the OWC Mercury Elite Pro fan-less, single drive, aluminum enclosures from Other Word Computing. These enclosures, with a single platter 3.5" drive installed are about as quiet as you can get. (Not that I don't have ideas on how to make them quieter--the aluminum, while acting as a heatsink for the drive so it can be fabless, does transmit some of the vibrational noise of the raw drive. Hence the need to use quiet mechanisms.)

 

Most hard drive manufacturers no longer publish the specs for #platters, #heads, but there are ways to deduce it, and there is also The HDD Platter Capacity Database: The HDD Platter Capacity Database. It is not always 100% complete, and sometimes drive makers change their model numbers so cross-referencing can be required if the drive you have came either in a retail box or pre-installed as part of some other brand's external enclosure package.

 

Hope this helps.

 

--Alex

[Miska]

I use the OWC Mercury Elite Pro fan-less, single drive, aluminum enclosures from Other Word Computing. These enclosures, with a single platter 3.5" drive installed are about as quiet as you can get.

 

Are you now talking about external USB cases or eSATA? Because connecting something to USB is possible to have pretty big effect on USB connected DAC...

 

In most cases I either have OS and all music on a separate drives, or alternatively accessed over network using CIFS protocol.

 

New machines I build all have OS on SSD and then data on HDDs.

[barrows]

My belief is that different HD will sound different because of how much electrical noise they make. I use a 2.5" drive (WD green) precisely because it uses much less power than a full size drive, and less power consumption also means less noise for the most part. Also see the thread where folks are powering their OS drives independently and observe improved sonics (isolating the noise). SOtM filters can help as well.

A good SATA data cable may help as well, as it could result in less transmission errors, hence less re-sends, hence less spiky noises…

I do not like using external drives, RAID, NAS, USB, Thunderbolt etc… Prefer internal SATA drive for storage, and filtered and isolated low power drive.

[Jud]

Are you now talking about external USB cases or eSATA? Because connecting something to USB is possible to have pretty big effect on USB connected DAC...

 

In most cases I either have OS and all music on a separate drives, or alternatively accessed over network using CIFS protocol.

 

New machines I build all have OS on SSD and then data on HDDs.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/attention-current-mac-mini-users-boot-mavericks-sd-card-load-ramdisk-dismount-your-internal-sata-drives-and-pour-drink-musicians-walking-out-your-speakers-18159/

[Superdad]

Are you now talking about external USB cases or eSATA? Because connecting something to USB is possible to have pretty big effect on USB connected DAC...

 

In most cases I either have OS and all music on a separate drives, or alternatively accessed over network using CIFS protocol.

 

New machines I build all have OS on SSD and then data on HDDs.

 

Hi Miska:

 

Jud did just give you the link to the thread I started about where I have ended up, but were you not around for my long initial report and the discussion that followed?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/my-deep-dive-media-storage-interfaces-musical-differences-heard-between-chipsets-firewire-400-800-usb-sata-flash-drives-sd-cards-and-network-shares-warning-may-cause-seizures-dbt-crowd-and-flat-earth-naysayers-18108/#post268712

[Miska]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/my-deep-dive-media-storage-interfaces-musical-differences-heard-between-chipsets-firewire-400-800-usb-sata-flash-drives-sd-cards-and-network-shares-warning-may-cause-seizures-dbt-crowd-and-flat-earth-naysayers-18108/#post268712

 

OK, I didn't notice that. With the external enclosures PSU design becomes important or otherwise it easily becomes huge problem.

 

I've been using this for music with MacMini (Win8.1) without any problems or reason to change, connected via FW800:

My Passport Studio

OS is on internal drive.

[Miska]

...on my Linux development desktop I have three SATA HDD's inside, two WD and one Hitachi.

 

All other machines access music over network (gigabit CAT6) using CIFS.