Amarra

[The Computer Audiophile]

I don't know if it will work "out-of-the-box" with the FF400. I think I could get it to work in my system using a little creativity :~)

 

[cfmsp]

 

Chris,

 

What is the limiting factor in terms of working with not yet approved DACs?

 

I had assumed it was just the Firewire drivers that needed to be tested out in order to support additional hardware.

 

I also assumed that I'd have no problem connecting with my Metric Halo ULN-2 - given that Metric Halo 'make' the Amarra / Sonic Studio devices.

 

Incidentally, the just released Metric Halo ULN-8 (the base product of the 8 channel Amarra device) is getting stupendous accolades on the MH forum.

 

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

E.g., if a Benchmark can be (app)lauded for it's sound (based on over/up-sampling), then why couldn't Amarra be similarly applauded, if the quality of it's sound reaches new, higher standards, as some suggest? Should it be dismissed, simply because the SRC (or other processing) occurred PRIOR to arriving at the DAC? Why should the DAC be sacrosanct in it's ability to process the digital bits?

 

It looks like you are making up some things here. Actually this starts with thinking Amarra up/over/under/insideout samples (but point me to an Amarra page where this stated to get your right here), and next DACs have better sound quality because of that ? Did you actually listen and compare ?

 

Of course many like a Benchmark, just like I liked my Audio Note from before the time Audio Note (sort of) came up with Non Oversampling. But times have changed.

Oversampling destroys.

But the main subject is : now Amarra oversamples or anything by standard, right ?

 

help ...

:-)

 

[PeterSt]

Just out of (btw genuine) interest, can someone tell me why it is that something like a software player has to (kind of explicitly) support a thing like a DAC ? I mean, I kind of believe it is true because I received the questions myself, but for the Windows platform I can only say "huh ?". I don't want to put Windows forwards here of course, but it seems strange that it's just not drivers arranging for this.

 

So out of anything (for Windows that is) a *device* wouldn't be compatible (for Vista the just mentioned Benchmark would be an example), and there's just nothing to do for the player software.

 

I estimate this is related to that "MIDI" thing, right ?

 

Peter

 

[serengetiplains]

Peter, I suspect in the case of Amarra, compatibility has to do with the DAC's ability to accept, and on the fly adapt to, multiple data frequencies (44.1K, 96K, etc.). Plus the DAC has to be firewire.

 

[cfmsp]

 

Peter,

 

I can see how I mis-conveyed my point. I did not mean to say that I know that Amarra is applying SRC, as I don't know, although I clearly implied it, as that's how you understood it.

 

please allow me to rephrase the question:

 

"Should Amarra be dismissed, simply because it's processing (whatever it is) occurred PRIOR to arriving at the DAC? Why should the DAC be sacrosanct in it's ability to process the digital bits?"

 

I don't personally know whether up/over-sampling improves sound, although many believe so, including, apparently, Benchmark. As far as I know, my DAC does not over/up-sample.

 

from your perspective - that of having a belief that over/up-sampling is detrimental - I can see how my question is unwelcome, as it would seem to assume facts not in evidence.

 

apologies for the confusion.

 

clay

 

 

 

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

Whether a DAC up or over samples and how the end result is, is subject to the performance of the DAC design. Some DACs don't need up or over sampling - like Wavelength's non- up/over sampling models. Other designs may need the up/over sampling to equal the same performance of the other designs.

 

All things considered, in my mind if your DAC can perform without the up/over sampling, then that would be my preference. However having a DAC that can do Redbook and also do Hi Res will most likely mean that it performs up/over sampling for the Redbook tracks just because it is fixed in doing that method or format.

 

It is all implementation in the design.

 

[Voltron]

I do not know the technicalities of how the software interfaces with the DACs but I understand it to relate to the Audio MIDI settings as I said above. Sonic needs to code Amarra to recognize the MIDI settings for a particular device, to recognize the name of the device as the Mac sees it, e.g. "Duet (0396)" for my Apogee Duet. I don't think that there is a specific coding issue related to setting the proper sample rate on the DAC itself because the Duet and other devices automatically switch. But with the Model 4, there is definitely more happening and most of Amarra's processes (or all?) are done in the Model 4 unit rather than in the Mac.

 

As of yesterday, no RME products were supported according to what Jonathan said. Therefore, I do not believe the FireFace 400/800/etc units will work with Amarra yet. Not sure what Chris means by getting creative to make Amarra work with different DACs but I am sure clever people could make the Mac think that a different device was attached or some such. Otherwise, people will just have to be patient until specific products are coded into Amarra.

 

Amarra works with the Benchmark DAC1, which is USB not Firewire, so I do not believe it is limited to Firewire. Jonathan has mentioned it working with other USB DACs as well, so I am pretty sure that it will take the digital audio from either Firewire or USB as long as the output device is recognized. Again, the optical output is NOT going to work with Amarra, and I understand that to be the case because the optical puts out "Built In Audio" from the Mac.

 

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

Regarding the use of Amarra - below is the first section in the Amarra software manual. It indicates the software is built for Mac OSX and iTunes only. So I am guessing that those trying the software in Windows, is not listening to the Amarra software????? But I could be wrong. The same goes for output through Firewire only. The USB port use is for the dongle iLok software key. I'd like to hear from Daniel on this topic since he offers the Amarra software to work with his Firewire DACs. Since the Amarra software is a plug-in to iTunes, I'm wondering for Windows users, if you're actually listening to the iTunes Windows software and not Amarra. Hopefully someone in the know will be able to give an accurate assessment of this topic/issue.

 

 

AMARRA Computer Music Player Installation Guide

April 2009

Thank you for purchasing the Amarra Computer Music Player. You are about to enjoy the

ultrafidelity sound of Amarra. Designed to work with your Apple™ MacIntosh Computer and

with iTunes, Amarra provides a seamless integration for high resolution music playback.

Contents —

This document details the installation of AMARRA and its associated software:

1) AMARRA Package Contents

2) AMARRA System Requirements

3) Introduction to PACE iLok Security Key

4) Installing AMARRA Software

5) Launching/Using AMARRA

6) Using AMARRA and iTunes

7) Registering Your AMARRA Software

8) Troubleshooting Guide

9) Support.

10) Warranty / Certificate of Ownership

The Amarra installer will install the following items on to your Macintosh Computer:

• AMARRA Computer Music Player

• AMARRA iTunes Plugin

• AMARRA Fonts

• PACE iLok extension

• AMARRA Documentation

To install software for Model Three and Model Four hardware, please read the AMARRA

Hardware Installer Guide.

1- AMARRA Package Contents AMARRA Install Disk

AMARRA Getting Started Document

PACE iLok

High Resolution Audio Sampler

2- AMARRA System Requirements

Computer:

• Any Intel based (or G5 2.6 Ghz or above) Mac with 10.4.11 or 10.5.5

• RAM: 3 GB RAM minimum

• Firewire port

• USB port for iLOK security key.

Peripheral FireWire Adaptors supported:

• OHCI compliant PCCard, PCI card, ExpressCard or PCIe card

Software:

• Mac OS X 10.4.11 or 10.5.5 and above recommended

• Amarra

• iTunes We also highly recommend a fresh install of the operating on a clean disc. This can prevent

problems later on.

We also highly recommend that your computer be used exclusively for music playback. Email,

web browsers, screen sharing and other applications can all effect performance.

Note that USB hubs, audio or optical disc peripherals are generally not supported.

3- Introduction to PACE iLok Security Key

AMARRA is protected with PACE's Anti-Piracy InterLok copy protection. Your iLok should

come ready to use and you should only need to install the iLOK extension on your computer.

There may be occasions when you need to setup an iLOK for new options or for replacement.

Please ask your dealer for more information.

PACE InterLok (iLok):

 

PACE iLok (Yours may be a different color)

Your AMARRA license is authorized with an iLok USB Smart Key.

 

 

[Opusover21]

Anyone received their demo link yet?

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Anyone received their demo link yet?"

 

Not I.

 

 

 

 

 

[lamarzocco]

Dennis,

 

Amarra is Mac OS X only, which I consider a plus, as they can devote more $$ in writing Core Audio APIs than trying to work with Windows audio-subsystem and dealing with k-mixer and ASIO.

 

[audioengr]

"Amarra works with the Benchmark DAC1, which is USB not Firewire, so I do not believe it is limited to Firewire."

 

I didn't know this. If this is true, then it works with My USB converters and DACs, as well as PSAudio and BelCanto 24/96.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

I was trying to point out that fact on Mac OSX only use. Since Amarra acts as a plug-in, i'm thinking that folks are listening to itunes passing the signal through Amarra without processing. I would think Sonic Studio could confirm this one way or another. I'd think they'd mention that the program works in windows or with USB devices if it did so.

 

For those who are using it, do you hear a difference without or with the software in place? Maybe those hearing no difference with or without - is because they are not hearing Amarra at all????

 

[markr]

Downloaded the Demo. It is an easy install, and I had no problems whatsoever (much less of a hassle than the Sound Blade demo was). It is really nice that it changes my sample rate automatically (very very slight tic sound when this is done - almost inaudible). I thought changing the sample frequency might be a problem on my RME Fireface 400, but nope. No problem - it switches up and down without issue so far. Someone will ask, so .....I've had it switch seamlessly between 44.1/88.2/176.4/192 Khz so far (listening to Kent Poon's 'Freddie' @ 192 right now. I suppose in retrospect that the FF400 may actually pose less of a problem to 'auto-set' than some other DACs as the Mac bit depth is always set at 32bit when the DAC is connected. At any rate, my RME settings panel confirms that the rate changes are taking place.

 

Off to listen now.

 

- markr

EDIT: Fixed some spelling.....

 

[Voltron]

I am trying to be as clear and as accurate as I can be and I have admitted to a lack of technical knowledge several times, so I am basing what I post on my experience and on what Jonathan Reichbach has told me personally. A couple more follow-ups based on subsequent posts:

 

1. Amarra only works on Apple Mac computers, so I don't think that anyone is running Amarra on a PC. On a Mac, the Amarra window sits next to the iTunes window and if there are no levels showing then the audio is not going through the Amarra software. If there are levels, then Amarra is in play. Not hard to figure out. As for the sound, if you have a good, resolving system playing your music, then I think you would be hard-pressed not to notice the difference/improvement when Amarra is engaged.

 

I also started playing a bit with the "Character" settings in the Sonic Console and they can really impact the sound as well. There are 15 or more settings for things like tube, FET or transformer outputs, as well as various types of mics for inputs. Very cool stuff and if somebody is good with EQ on top of that, they could make the output sound pretty much however they want it.

 

2. Given that (1) Jonathan had a DAC1 Pre in his Sonic Studio office when I was there, (2) he said he was using it with Amarra and had coded in the Benchmark devices, and (3) the DAC1 Pre has a USB input but no Firewire, I have to deduce that Amarra is not limited to Firewire.

 

3. I am not sure if Amarra has any of your devices "coded" in yet Steve, and I do not recall Jonathan listing Empirical Audio devices when he mentioned the ones he was working on adding. The list will grow, and my guess is that his back-to-back trips to Germany for pro and consumer audio shows is getting in the way of faster progress on Amarra.

 

4. I remembered from seeing somebody's signature that Wavelength DACs were included in the short list of what Sonic is trying to get supported in the short run and I left that off my list above.

 

5. It is just now noon on the West Coast so I wouldn't imagine too many people have received their Amarra demo codes yet. Given that it is supposed to be a rolling process and given all of their work on the pro side and other Amarra work, I cannot imagine it happening super fast. Just trying to be realistic, although I understand the impatience. ;-)

 

EDIT: markr just posted that he got his and it is even working with his RME FireFace 400 so maybe Sonic was busy adding that in since Saturday afternoon or maybe it is one that will work without other effort. Anyway, cool that the demo is making its way to people.

 

 

 

[markr]

Sorry guys. It actually is NOT working with the FF400. The error log reports that the FF400 is an 'incompatible device'. It DOES change the sample rate though. The playback sound is the sound of iTunes. Interesting. I'm sending a copy of the log to Jon right now.

 

Sorry!

markr

 

[audioengr]

I am not sure if Amarra has any of your devices "coded" in yet Steve, and I do not recall Jonathan listing Empirical Audio devices when he mentioned the ones he was working on adding.

 

If the Benchmark works, they should all work. Identical USB interface software, other than the ID's.

 

Steve N.

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

"I also started playing a bit with the "Character" settings in the Sonic Console and they can really impact the sound as well. There are 15 or more settings for things like tube, FET or transformer outputs, as well as various types of mics for inputs. Very cool stuff and if somebody is good with EQ on top of that, they could make the output sound pretty much however they want it."

 

For more input on the Character settings, one might want to peruse the Metric Halo site. I'd be shocked if these are not the same as offered by MH (they even call it Character) given that MH make the Sonic Studio hardware.

 

Apparently, the MH pres are transparent enough that users can pick their poison in the DAW, as opposed to having to use non-MH preamps to euphonically 'colour' the sound in the manner desired.

 

 

clay

 

 

[markr]

Clay wrote: "Apparently, the MH pres are transparent enough that users can pick their poison in the DAW, as opposed to having to use non-MH preamps to euphonically 'colour' the sound in the manner desired."

 

It can be a blast to play with this stuff! The sonic emulation of different types of amps and mic's has been going on on the pro side for quite some time now. This is now standard stuff on programs like Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo and many many more DAW programs that can use AU and VST plugins (the latest Garage Band has guitar amp emulators). Metric Halo is really great equipment, there are also lots of other very transparent preamps out there as well.

 

Somehow, I always seem to come back to flat or no EQ for listening to music though...

 

markr

 

[cfmsp]

 

markr says:

"It can be a blast to play with this stuff!"

 

Mark, I totally agree with everything in your post.

 

I should also point out that it does NOT require a pro audio DAW to play around.

 

there's an inexpensive ($32) tool called Audio Hijack Pro (Mac only?) which supports the use of plug-ins for processing audio playback. I've posted this on CA before - on a thread related to EQ.

 

http://db.tidbits.com/article/7961

 

I'm not aware of any free apps that accept/play plugins. If someone else is, please do share.

 

For those interested in more serious 'play', Plogue Bidule is another reasonably expensive app ($75 I think) that offers much more than AHPro in the way of pro audio DAW like features, plus it has a nice flowchart-like interface to illustrate the processing setup - a nice feature to have when you're new to all the 'ins & outs' of digital audio processing.

 

enjoy

clay

 

 

[ronfint]

The remarks concerning fiddling with Amarra settings are very interesting. It is this kind of tweakiness that digital fans used to complain about in analogue audio. (Who is looking for a warm cartridge?)

 

I'm not likely to purchase Amarra because I think that its price is outrageous, but it sure is fun to read these comments.

 

[markr]

... Garage Band, clay! It accepts plugins - though I suppose that it isn't exactly free: you have to buy a Mac to get it "free". OR purchase it separately of course.

 

I have used Audio Highjack in conjunction with Cam Twist to help facilitate broadcasting of video over the web. I don't like to have it installed on the Mac all the time though, it makes working with Reason and Logic more convoluted than it needs to be for me. You are correct: there is a lot of free and shareware stuff out there for digital audio.

 

The shareware program "Play" will accept AU plugins. I don't know of any others that do at this time.

 

regards,

markr

 

[blueixus]

I have not yet received the download link from Amarra, and now i feel like a real clot because I bought a iLok! (Which I won't need even if I get a link)

 

All very frustrating...

 

[Opusover21]

Still nothing :-(