Amarra

[souptin]

I've had no response either.

 

I suspect I'm in the same position as a lot of people here - I don't have an iLok, and I'm not particularly thrilled at the idea of buying one just to try out a demo. The form and the faq on their site suggest that it's not essential and you'll get some limited functionality without the iLok, but without a download link I'm just guessing.

 

So far it's lots of noise about Amarra, but no noise at all from Amarra. I'm a very sad Souptin

 

[blueixus]

Anyone had any joy with the Demo version?

 

I guess my one question is will a demo of Amarra be valid if the equipment being used is not on the 'qualified' list issued by Sonic Studio

 

These are the only current 'qualified interfaces'

• Amarra Model Three/Four

• Sonic Studio Series 303/4/5

• Weiss Engineering Vesta, Minerva,

• Weiss AFI1, ADC2, DAC2

• Lynx AES16e PCIe (Mac Pro)

• Lynx AES16 PCI (G5 Mac)

 

 

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

my guess on the equipment compatibility question is that you will likely be fine with most Firewire-based DACs.

 

There will very likely be a driver download that may not work with all Firewire devices.

 

You probably can't expect great support if there are issues.

 

As for USB, Toslink, etc, that won't likely be possible.

 

And, of course, you'll need a Mac on which to load the demo.

 

Let me repeat however, thse are just educated guesses, as I've also not yet been forwarded the download link even though I filled out the form last evening.

 

I'll further guess that perhaps they did not think through the ramifications of announcing/releasing a demo for download on a Friday without staffing up for the manual portion of the demo download process over the weekend, and may therefore have anxious potential customers.

I hope I'm wrong and that we'll all receive the download link post haste.

 

enjoy

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Opusover21]

As a DAC2 user.. i'm waiting for my demo of this too!

 

[serengetiplains]

This Amarra software is actually sounding better with a little break-in time.

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

Well my concern for this software is - "With the precision (Amarra) Sonic EQ the sound can be tailored to your particular environment providing the best sound possible" - makes me nervous. Is the only reason folks think they hear an improvement based on Amarra's Sonic EQ software. Is the performance improved? Or is it masking other issues or playback problems. Chris mentioned when he was at RMAF, he was not allowed to listen when he went by. The reason being they were making adjustments to the sound. So another digital EQ program. I've tried many digital crossover devices that correct for room issues. But in all of those products, they digital device removed all of the music that went through it. They were like throwing a blanket over the speakers. They filtered all the music (soul) out of the system. Sure the sound was balanced and differences were heard. But it was an overall loss of performance. Maybe one too many A to D and D to A conversion. I'm not a fan of digital manipulation of my music. These products just seem to suck the life out of the music. Kind of like using a MP3 format over AIFF.

 

I haven't listened to the Amarra product yet, but I'm going to be very leery of its involvement in my system. It certainly is not outputting bit perfect output when using their “Sonic EQ” program features.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - When I use Amarra in my system I don't use the Sonic EQ and it outputs bit perfect every time.

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

Chris if you're hearing a big improvement with the Amarra software, why wouldn't you use it all the time? Or is this just a non-issue due to your using different formats for different physical systems? Last time I checked the Amarra product only works with AIFF format. What hardware do you use when using the Amarra software?

 

Could you give more descriptive reasons for liking the Amarra software in your system? It would be nice to know what hardware you're using with the software and what the improvements are? There also has to be some negatives that the software presents. What don't you like while using the software?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

[serengetiplains]

Dennis, my experience is that compared to Amarra, iTunes sounds a touch boring, just like you describe about about a wet blanket, though with directional arrows pointing away from Amarra. I wouldn't go so far to say wet blanket with iTunes, but it clearly lacks low level detail, among other things, compared to Amarra. I heard this difference in 20 seconds. In other words, iTunes sounds comparatively boring.

 

I don't use EQ.

 

My system comprises Hansen speakers, Lyngdorf Millenium IV amp, Weiss AFI1, Accuphase power conditioners (two in series), another passive conditioner feeding these, all modified by moi.

 

[Dennis L Jacob]

Chris, check your email, I have a question for you on the Weiss DAC software installation for you.

 

[Voltron]

Well, Jonathan Reichbach of Sonic Studio made a house call today and helped me to install an Amarra Model 4 unit, serial no. 0000 by chance. It sounds fantastic and has a great set of features. I have had hardly any time since we set it up, but I will do my best to log some hours checking it out. Jonathan has told me to feel free to talk about my impressions of the Model 4 and Amarra and I will do that as I have time.

 

A few pieces of relevant information about the status of Amarra and the demo that people should know:

 

1. Jonathan said that the demo version will be the kind I had at first, and it drops the volume to zero every couple of minutes. It is annoying but allows you to hear the sound of Amarra compared to iTunes alone.

 

2. As somebody mentioned, the fact of the release being on a Friday (combined with a vacation and a travel day and also Jonathan heading back to Germany for another show) means that the letters going out with links for the demo downloads will be starting on Monday. Sonic is going to send them in the order requests were received, so be patient I guess is all that I can say. Some people may be selected as Beta testers and they will receive an iLok key from Sonic to run the full version.

 

3. Although Amarra only works when the DAC is supported and the software knows what MIDI settings it should have, the list of the 'qualified interfaces' has grown in addition to the ones listed on the website. If I am remembering correctly, the additions

 

• Apogee Duet and Symphony (hopefully they will add the MiniDac too)

• Benchmark DAC1 (and maybe others?)

 

likely additions in the near future

 

• RME products

• More Lynx products

 

If you don't have one of these units then Amarra will not work for you, but you can email Sonic with another firewire or USB dac and see if they can add them. A snap shot of your Audio MIDI settings with the dac selected as the output device fore everything but system sounds. I don't know how many they can add and support and so forth, but the more info the better.

 

That is all I can remember. Check out Amarra if you are able. It is worth the effort.

 

[machinehead]

Dude, that is hilarious!!

 

[HarryHWombat]

This Amarra software is actually sounding better with a little break-in time.

-serengetiplains

 

Software doesn't have break-in time. Is something else warming up?

 

[Purite Audio]

Harry ,you know it has to be left on 24/7 and further improvements can be gleaned by upgrading the power supply!

 

[souptin]

Aww, come on Mr Wombat - surely everybody knows about the importance of burning in your software? All those lines of code need time to settle into their new home and make friends with all the other lines of code in your system. I suspect you are something of a cynic.

 

Might I humbly suggest this as the next computeraudiophile April fool's topic? I'm sure we could come up with enough technobabble to create a bit of a stir.

 

To get back to the topic, before I get in too much trouble - although I haven't yet got a link to the Amarra demo, I did get the Soundblade demo, which works just fine without an iLok for auditioning purposes. It sounds lovely, but to my ears no different from Itunes. This is through an Apogee Duet with Grado SR125's to give some reference - I know many people here will be using much higher end gear.

 

Another thing I saw mentioned was the question of digital equalisation. I know it's drilled into every beginner audiophile that tone controls are bad and degrade the sound, but they're an essential part of recording equipment. Personally I'm not above using itunes eq for recordings that I think sound a bit harsh, so if the Sonic guys have a better quality eq then that's a good thing, and to h*ll with bit perfect.

 

[Opusover21]

Voltron...so with the EQ off etc..how does it compare to iTunes...those who have heard it are being very quiet imho.....so can someone spill the beans..direct comapison against iTunes...no technical wordage please...How does it SOUND??

 

[Voltron]

Opus:

 

The people that actually have the software are either hearing demo versions or they are in the "early adopter" program Sonic is using as a type of beta testing. In my case, I have not had a lot of time with the full version supported on my Duet, but I have posted comments on the sound -- the most important part imo -- before. Now that I have the full software, the Sonic Console program running, and the Model 4, I can do some better comparisons. I still have a full time job and a family, too, so the time I can dedicate has some limitations. Here is what I posted previously about the sound with the EQ off, and I stick by it.

 

"As for the sound, I can say that I prefer it to iTunes direct and that two of my audiophile friends also preferred it. *** Briefly, however, the sound from Amarra in my limited experience has a more natural, analog feeling and also more "body" to it. The bass definition and amount are two quite obvious standouts when going back and forth with Amarra ON and OFF. The mid-range also sounds more rich and full, and the mids and highs are clearer and more detailed. Amarra provides more detailed vocals with greater texture and more micro detail like throat sounds. These changes demonstrate neither bloat nor smoothing of the sound. On the contrary, it sounds like there is better definition or layers because more sonic information gets through."

 

 

[Opusover21]

Thanks! hopefully more posts based on actual listening over the course of next week...I hope i'm not to far back in the queue to get the demo link!

 

[Opusover21]

Golden question is..is it worth the money?

 

[cfmsp]

 

"I know it's drilled into every beginner audiophile that tone controls are bad and degrade the sound, but they're an essential part of recording equipment. Personally I'm not above using itunes eq for recordings that I think sound a bit harsh, so if the Sonic guys have a better quality eq then that's a good thing, and to h*ll with bit perfect."

 

Guilty as charged. I've eschewed anything like tone controls since my purchase of a Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amp 25 years ago (said amp didn't even have a balance control, let alone tone controls). And, all other things being equal, I'm a member of the 'bit perfect is a requirement of digitial sound', at least for now.

 

However, and this was the intent of my earlier mail, I am now questioning (philosophically) this need for absolute bit-perfectness. To wit, if even some of the most 'celebrated' DACs (e.g. Benchmark) are guilty of over-sampling (or upsampling), then why should I be so concerned if high-quality, intentional (as opposed to unintentionally destructive) bit diddling has occurred.

 

I'd never considered this before, but...if a sophisticated program like Amarra (sophisticated in the sense that it has qualities & characteristics consistent with software used by the recording industry before/while the bits are being created) can 'improve' the sound by making it more realistic/enjoyable/etc., then why should I dismiss that out of hand?

 

E.g., if a Benchmark can be (app)lauded for it's sound (based on over/up-sampling), then why couldn't Amarra be similarly applauded, if the quality of it's sound reaches new, higher standards, as some suggest? Should it be dismissed, simply because the SRC (or other processing) occurred PRIOR to arriving at the DAC? Why should the DAC be sacrosanct in it's ability to process the digital bits?

 

To be clear, I am NOT proposing that Sonic EQ be deemed acceptable, that's not something I'd be interested in as a steady diet,. but Chris has already stated that the Amarra benefits he is enjoying are not based on Sonic EQ.

 

Indeed, Chris has stated that Amarra retains bit-perfectness, so perhaps my philosophical questions are irrelevant.

 

Perhaps the Amarra software is sooooo sophisticated that it can process the bits (e.g., lower the noise floor, apply high-qual dithering, whatever) and re-assemble the samples so that the bits check out as identical. :0

 

Surely I jest.

 

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[serengetiplains]

Opus, I second what Voltron says about how Amarra sounds. On a sufficiently resolved system, these differences are quite apparent. iTunes sounds duller by comparison, a little flatter, less resolved, less air and decay, less room and instrument information.

 

[audiozorro]

Clarification FYI:

 

"Amarra only supports uncompressed PCM files (AIFF, WAV, BWF). Future updates will include support for FLAC and Apple Loseless."

 

[serengetiplains]

Harry, I was just kidding about the break-in comment.

 

[HarryHWombat]

@serengetiplains

 

A smiley would have helped!

 

 

[audioengr]

Chris - do you know if the Amarra software will work with a Fireface400?

 

Steve N.