Upcoming "Close to the Edge" SACD

[firedog]

Amazon.com: Close to the Edge: Yes: Music

 

YES :: Close to the Edge | audiofidelity

 

Very Interested in this. Anyone willing to rip it to DSD (or simply upload me a copy of the files) if I can prove purchase?

 

Thanks

[chumlie]

Have it on pre-orded. Also looking forward to it.

[One and a half]

Audio Fidelity does a great job so am eager to listen to a DSD download of this work (dreaming in la la land here). Even though the master is tape, DSD has a plus over SQ in retaining analog character of tape than PCM, then again it depends on the mastering engineer.

The Remaster 2003 version on CD is also very good, a welcome change to the CD from the 80's which sounded like compressed vinyl.

[mayhem13]

I'm gonna add something outside of my norm......my original pressing Vinyl sounds soo much better than any CD release I've heard to date. Looking fwd to this newest version. BTW this album falls in my to 20.

[chumlie]

Wish they had a release date confirmed.

[One and a half]

Botheration.

 

Amazon advises the new shipping date is now March 2013, instead of Feb.

 

Yes "Close to the Edge"

Estimated arrival date: March 08, 2013 - March 12, 2013

[chumlie]

Getting kind of tired of these delays. Dec, Jan, Feb and now March. Wish they would quit stalling and get there act together.

[Terence D]

Hi, I'm new to the forum - been browsing around it the last few days as I endlessly research choices for my new DAC/monitor purchases I'm planning for the spring. Question about these SACD/DSD discs: Do any of you guys ABX test these with the regular CD version? Curious what the results are.

[firedog]

Hi, I'm new to the forum - been browsing around it the last few days as I endlessly research choices for my new DAC/monitor purchases I'm planning for the spring. Question about these SACD/DSD discs: Do any of you guys ABX test these with the regular CD version? Curious what the results are.

 

It all depends on the mastering. If the source is tape and the original digital transfer was to DSD, generally the DSD is the best sounding version. If the original digital transfer was to PCM, or the original was PCM itself (not tape) then generally the hi-res PCM version sounds best. All of the above is dependent on the remastering itself (no matter what type) not screwing up the sound.

[Terence D]

It all depends on the mastering. If the source is tape and the original digital transfer was to DSD, generally the DSD is the best sounding version. If the original digital transfer was to PCM, or the original was PCM itself (not tape) then generally the hi-res PCM version sounds best. All of the above is dependent on the remastering itself (no matter what type) not screwing up the sound.

 

 

Interesting. Yeah, I'm not very knowledgable on how the whole process works between the recording leaving the studio and the actual manufacturing of the CD. I wonder how common it is for the DSD version and a remastered CD version to come from the same remaster or if usually a separate remastering is done when releasing the DSD.

[chriss71]

Hhm, I am not jumping on this on after I have read some reviews. I have the Atlantic (which was mastered by Barry Diament) and this sounds really good.

[firedog]

what reviews? hasn't even been released

[tyro]

Getting kind of tired of these delays. Dec, Jan, Feb and now March. Wish they would quit stalling and get there act together.

 

I ordered and paid for six SACD's at Music Direct back in June 2012 and two of the titles have been TBA status since then. Music Direct will not ship the four SACD's that are available now because I placed my order during free shipping promotion. During inquiry was told any change will cancel my free shipping and I'll still have to wait for the two SACD's on TBA status. This will be my last Music Direct order.

[chriss71]

what reviews? hasn't even been released

 

Yeah, I know that. But I will not pre-order that one...

[firedog]

I see their the AF SACDs on Amazon. Ships from Amazon. Amazon is unlikely to screw you over; order from them and not MD.

[chriss71]

Can Barry Diament chime in here. I know he don't want to talk about competitors (he is too much a gentleman), but do you remember on which condition are the master tapes for this one? Also any stories when you mastered this one (about EQ flat or subtle changes)?

[chriss71]

From Chris Squire direct:

 

Anything that hasn’t come out has either been misfiled or lost. Unfortunately that applies to quite a few of the masters. Close to The Edge we don’t have, it seems to have disappeared. On a personal note the masters for my solo CD Fish Out Of Water seem to have disappeared as well.

 

So, and that will raise the question, what tapes is Mr. "Sticky Fingers" Hoffman using? One is for sure, not the original tape, if you believe Chris Squire! Is that the reason we don't see this from MFSL?

Questions over questions!!!!

[Robert Hutton]

From Chris Squire direct:

 

 

 

So, and that will raise the question, what tapes is Mr. "Sticky Fingers" Hoffman using? One is for sure, not the original tape, if you believe Chris Squire! Is that the reason we don't see this from MFSL?

Questions over questions!!!!

 

It is rather hard to imagine that the master tapes will be used for the AF SACD, even assuming they exist and could be located. Not only do labels generally not lease out original masters anymore (all hi res digital copies of the master), AF hardly ever make the claim of true first gen original master source anymore, and it is even more doubtful given Hoffman's involvement.

 

Doesn't mean it won't sound great. Probably will. You have NO idea how many 'original master' claims are flat out false, and the remaster sounds great.

[chriss71]

Doesn't mean it won't sound great.

 

Dear Robert!

 

First off: I don't have written anything about how it sounds, I am talked about which tapes are the source for this AFZ. Why AFZ make such a secret about this.

 

Look at this question: What does "Original Master Recording" means on all the MFSL SACD's

 

Barry Diament stated: I believe the intent is to say they did indeed use the original master tapes rather than copies.

Rob LoVerde stated (on whatsbest forum): Yes, my MFSL Billy Joel 52nd Street was mastered from the original analog master tapes.

The support from MFSL stated: Yes, all titles which include the Original Master Recording banner are mastered from the original analogue master tape.

 

Are they all lying? Does analogue master tapes as stated here above mean, from the 3rd gen copy's or what?

 

If you make a thread on the SH Forum asking about which tapes are used on the AFZ Billy Joel 52nd Street the thread gets deleted and you are banned from the forum because of spam. Why is the source a secret?

 

I hope some insider would shine a little light on this...

 

Chriss

[bdiament]

Hi chriss71,

 

Can Barry Diament chime in here. I know he don't want to talk about competitors (he is too much a gentleman), but do you remember on which condition are the master tapes for this one? Also any stories when you mastered this one (about EQ flat or subtle changes)?

 

We are out at the edge of my memory cells now, where it is dark (and lonely).

This was something I worked on more than a quarter century ago.

 

My memory of the Yes tapes that remains is a picture of the reddish (acetate?) 1/4" tape on 10 1/2" reels in a plain brown box. I don't remember if it was "Close To The Edge" or one of the other Yes albums (or all of them that I worked on) but I clearly remember setting up the analog playback machine and seeing the VU meters pinning most of the time.

 

Again, not sure if it was true of this album as well -- it is too dark where those memory cells are. Whichever album(s) it was, I do remember having to drop the playback level by 7 dB just to prevent overloading the playback electronics of the tape deck.

 

A lot of recordings in those days, particularly from the UK, were made with the feeling that "the VU meters don't matter". There was one name producer who said it in as many words. Of course, it you hit analog tape that hard (not to mention the analog electronics, just talking about the tape itself) something called "self erasure" occurs in the treble.

 

Whether these were the original master mixes or not, I don't know for sure. They were the only tapes Atlantic had and were the same ones used to cut the vinyl parts.

 

As always, when creating the CD master, I bypassed most of the room and wired directly, with my own cables brought from home, from the analog machine output to the A-D input. When EQ was applied (more on this below), only the equalizer was added to the chain. The room's patch bay, board and everything else were bypassed, with the signal being monitored from the D-A output.

 

When you consider how most recordings are made, the number of mics, the type of mics, where they are placed, how the players are situated, the room they are in, the signal path the signal must endure and the "monitoring" in most studios, it is no surprise that most recordings need help. The "ideal" of a flat transfer lasts only until one gets to actually hear a few real masters. (Put another way, if the original recording has treble that would loosen dental fillings and I can make it *hurt* less - or perhaps not hurt - by using EQ, I consider the EQ a good thing.) True, the finest recordings need no EQ at all. But most studio recordings do not, in my opinion, fit into that definition (i.e., finest).

 

It should be noted that there are as many ways to use EQ as there are people to use it. It can be used to destroy or it can be used to redirect the attention and bring out the best in a recording. They key is whether or not it sounds like it has been EQd. (I believe only those with a lot of experience using different types of EQ can tell. And I'm proud that a number of my respected colleagues have mistakenly thought much of my work to be "flat transfers".)

 

Back to your question: if I recall correctly, aside from the level drop, I did apply some gentle EQ to all the Yes (and Zep and AC/DC and many other) albums I worked on. Looking back, I think I was too conservative at the time - having come from the audiophile perspective of wanting everything to be a flat transfer. If I did them today, there would be more EQ as IMO, the recordings need it.

 

I have respect for Steve Hoffman's work and (assuming he is the one doing the mastering) believe this is going to be a good one.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[chriss71]

Dear Barry!

 

Thanks for this little insight about the mastering. Very interesting reading your post.

 

Best wishes to you

Chriss

[Robert Hutton]

Dear Robert!

 

First off: I don't have written anything about how it sounds, I am talked about which tapes are the source for this AFZ. Why AFZ make such a secret about this.

 

Look at this question: What does "Original Master Recording" means on all the MFSL SACD's

 

Barry Diament stated: I believe the intent is to say they did indeed use the original master tapes rather than copies.

Rob LoVerde stated (on whatsbest forum): Yes, my MFSL Billy Joel 52nd Street was mastered from the original analog master tapes.

The support from MFSL stated: Yes, all titles which include the Original Master Recording banner are mastered from the original analogue master tape.

 

Are they all lying? Does analogue master tapes as stated here above mean, from the 3rd gen copy's or what?

 

If you make a thread on the SH Forum asking about which tapes are used on the AFZ Billy Joel 52nd Street the thread gets deleted and you are banned from the forum because of spam. Why is the source a secret?

 

I hope some insider would shine a little light on this...

 

Chriss

 

Chris, I have written about this earlier.

 

AF do not claim to use original master tapes. So their sources are generally not known, they choose not to disclose that. That is their choice and the buyer can make whatever decision they want from there.

 

Mobile Fidelity do claim to use original master tapes and I have every reason to believe that is true.

 

In general, as I have said before, if the tapes are in New York (Billy Joel), and the mastering is in California, there is a better than even chance ba digital copy was the source. As a rule (there are always exceptions), tapes do not move anymore.

[bdiament]

Hi Robert,

 

Chris, I have written about this earlier.

 

AF do not claim to use original master tapes. So their sources are generally not known, they choose not to disclose that. That is their choice and the buyer can make whatever decision they want from there.

 

Mobile Fidelity do claim to use original master tapes and I have every reason to believe that is true.

 

In general, as I have said before, if the tapes are in New York (Billy Joel), and the mastering is in California, there is a better than even chance ba digital copy was the source. As a rule (there are always exceptions), tapes do not move anymore.

 

Based on what I saw when I was at Atlantic, *some* of the claims, from *some* sources, to have used the original master tapes are true. There were many instances when I saw those words on the release and I *know* what Atlantic sent was a copy (either analog or digital).

 

To be clear, all other things being equal, it is always an advantage, in my opinion, to use the earliest generation possible. However, all other things are rarely even close, much less equal, and I've often said, I'd rather hear a George Piros mastering from a third (!) generation copy than many other folks' work from the original mixes.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[chriss71]

AF do not claim to use original master tapes. So their sources are generally not known, they choose not to disclose that. That is their choice and the buyer can make whatever decision they want from there.

 

In this case I love Analogue Production: Here what the wrote on the new Doors Reissues:

 

All were cut from the original analog masters by Doug Sax, with the exception of The Doors, which was made from the best analog tape copy.

 

Which is a clear statement. Why cannot every Reissue or Remaster company say the source tape? And you are right, the buyer is the king. This is the reason I look the first reviews if I will buy that AFZ SACD.

[chriss71]

And the next one who will be banned because of spam - From the SH Forum: Yes "CLOSE TO THE EDGE" and Rush "COUNTERPARTS" on SACD from Audio Fidelity!!! | Page 42 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

 

swvcc: I'm confused - why are posts about the source being deleted? Isn't that part of what this board is about?

 

Yeah, yeah, truth must hurt...