The Who Tommy HDtracks vs. SHM SACD

[Kimo]

Can anyone offer a comparison of the two? The download is a fair bit cheaper, and seemingly well regarded, but I have read that the disc is basically a flat transfer of the original masters, and pretty good sounding as well. Trying to discern if the latter is worth an extra 35-40.00. Thanks.

[wgscott]

I know nothing about the disk, but the HD tracks is one of the ones they did right.

 

Do you happen to know if there is a HD version of Quadrophenia?

[firedog]

Pretty sure I saw new Japanese SACD Who releases on one of the SACD sites (possibly a Japanese one). Including Quadrophenia

[Kimo]

Pretty sure I saw new Japanese SACD Who releases on one of the SACD sites (possibly a Japanese one). Including Quadrophenia

 

 

Vinyl Records, SACDs, DVD Audio, Audiophile Equipment | Acoustic Sounds

 

 

I own Who's Next and The Singles. The former is very nice and the latter is pretty good, but being a comp a bit inconsistent based on the source. I likely would own more, but for the pricing. Of course, these discs seem to depreciate less than some of my equity holdings.

[firedog]

Yikes! $60 Bucks a disc! And we complain about prices at HDT and Channel Classics.

Anyone going to Japan and can bring some back cheaper?

[Kimo]

I know nothing about the disk, but the HD tracks is one of the ones they did right.

 

Do you know if this is a rip from the DVD-A? I have read something conflicting info on this.

[goldsdad]

I think the HDTracks Tommy is the 2003 SACD converted to PCM. As usual, there is the crushed dynamics of many SACD releases of remastered classic rock. Most tracks are rated DR 7.

[Kimo]

I think the HDTracks Tommy is the 2003 SACD converted to PCM. As usual, there is the crushed dynamics of many SACD releases of remastered classic rock. Most tracks are rated DR 7.

 

Oh man, I am going to get crushed with these SHM SACDs, but they do sort of work as a group. I am going to feel like a loser looking at shelf of 20 or so of these things, while pondering the total cost.

[goldsdad]

Oh man, I am going to get crushed with these SHM SACDs, but they do sort of work as a group. I am going to feel like a loser looking at shelf of 20 or so of these things, while pondering the total cost.

 

There's a favourable review of the 2012 SHM SACD at SA-CD.net - The Who: Tommy

The person says it's a much better remaster than the 2003 SACD.

[Julf]

I think the HDTracks Tommy is the 2003 SACD converted to PCM. As usual, there is the crushed dynamics of many SACD releases of remastered classic rock. Most tracks are rated DR 7.

 

Any chance of a spectrum plot?

[goldsdad]

Any chance of a spectrum plot?

 

I don't have a spectrum, only this waveform and spectrogram from checking a track for somebody

 

[Julf]

I don't have a spectrum, only this waveform and spectrogram from checking a track for somebody

 

I think this one would be a great schoolbook example for how a SDS (SACD) recording that has been resampled into PCM looks like. Anyone has the HDTracks download?

[sound chaser]

There's yet another cd release this month, can't find any info on sonic provenance though.

[firedog]

I've got the e-Onkyo 24-192. It's not clear from Google Translate of the e-Onkyo site if this was a resample of the SHM-SACD DSD or is it's own master (I think the first). It only costs about $40 bucks, and it's a download.

 

It sounds really good. Very clear and clean. You can hear lots of detail. I've got the American LP from back in the day on MCA (shitty sound) and the 1996 remaster on CD (very good). This is better.

 

DR log will follow. You can see it is somewhat compressed. Probably by 2 or 3 db. But it sounds fine to me. Doesn't sound compressed. The 1996 CD and the SHM-SACD have very similar DR results. The DR tool isn't an exact one, anyway, so differences of 1db probably don't mean anything.

 

 

Looks to me like the spectrum plots show no useful info above about 50K hz or less.

 

Make of all this what you will. To my limited knowledge, this looks like something derived from DSD. But as I said, it sounds really good, so who cares.

 

 

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0

log date: 2013-11-08 14:40:28

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: The Who / Tommy - 24-192

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -2.50 dB -16.34 dB 5:20 01-Overture

DR9 -3.70 dB -16.83 dB 0:39 02-It's A Boy

DR10 -2.58 dB -15.65 dB 2:49 03-1921

DR10 -2.63 dB -15.20 dB 3:24 04-Amazing Journey

DR11 -2.54 dB -15.56 dB 3:45 05-Sparks

DR9 -1.22 dB -13.86 dB 2:13 06-Eyesight To The Blind (The Hawker)

DR10 -1.32 dB -15.15 dB 4:35 07-Christmas

DR10 -2.48 dB -14.97 dB 4:07 08-Cousin Kevin

DR10 -2.94 dB -15.98 dB 3:34 09-The Acid Queen

DR11 -1.93 dB -15.65 dB 10:02 10-Underture

DR7 -4.30 dB -14.12 dB 0:24 11-Do You Think It's Alright?

DR9 -1.55 dB -15.29 dB 1:31 12-Fiddle About

DR9 -1.70 dB -14.76 dB 3:01 13-Pinball Wizard

DR9 -3.98 dB -17.96 dB 0:24 14-There's A Doctor

DR8 -1.23 dB -13.09 dB 3:48 15-Go To The Mirror!

DR9 -3.49 dB -16.22 dB 1:35 16-Tommy Can You Hear Me?

DR9 -2.27 dB -14.10 dB 1:35 17-Smash The Mirror

DR9 -1.74 dB -13.87 dB 2:26 18-Sensation

DR8 -2.34 dB -13.64 dB 0:13 19-Miracle Cure

DR9 -3.07 dB -14.56 dB 4:10 20-Sally Simpson

DR8 -1.16 dB -13.39 dB 2:39 21-I'm Free

DR10 -2.20 dB -17.99 dB 4:33 22-Welcome

DR10 -7.11 dB -20.70 dB 0:57 23-Tommy's Holiday Camp

DR9 -2.30 dB -14.71 dB 7:06 24-We're Not Gonna Take It

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 24

Official DR value: DR9

 

Samplerate: 192000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 5414 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

[Jud]

I've got the e-Onkyo 24-192. It's not clear from Google Translate of the e-Onkyo site if this was a resample of the SHM-SACD DSD or is it's own master (I think the first). It only costs about $40 bucks, and it's a download.

 

It sounds really good. Very clear and clean. You can hear lots of detail. I've got the American LP from back in the day on MCA (shitty sound) and the 1996 remaster on CD (very good). This is better.

 

DR log will follow. You can see it is somewhat compressed. Probably by 2 or 3 db. But it sounds fine to me. Doesn't sound compressed. The 1996 CD and the SHM-SACD have very similar DR results. The DR tool isn't an exact one, anyway, so differences of 1db probably don't mean anything.

 

 

Looks to me like the spectrum plots show no useful info above about 50K hz or less.

 

Make of all this what you will. To my limited knowledge, this looks like something derived from DSD. But as I said, it sounds really good, so who cares.

 

 

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0

log date: 2013-11-08 14:40:28

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: The Who / Tommy - 24-192

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -2.50 dB -16.34 dB 5:20 01-Overture

DR9 -3.70 dB -16.83 dB 0:39 02-It's A Boy

DR10 -2.58 dB -15.65 dB 2:49 03-1921

DR10 -2.63 dB -15.20 dB 3:24 04-Amazing Journey

DR11 -2.54 dB -15.56 dB 3:45 05-Sparks

DR9 -1.22 dB -13.86 dB 2:13 06-Eyesight To The Blind (The Hawker)

DR10 -1.32 dB -15.15 dB 4:35 07-Christmas

DR10 -2.48 dB -14.97 dB 4:07 08-Cousin Kevin

DR10 -2.94 dB -15.98 dB 3:34 09-The Acid Queen

DR11 -1.93 dB -15.65 dB 10:02 10-Underture

DR7 -4.30 dB -14.12 dB 0:24 11-Do You Think It's Alright?

DR9 -1.55 dB -15.29 dB 1:31 12-Fiddle About

DR9 -1.70 dB -14.76 dB 3:01 13-Pinball Wizard

DR9 -3.98 dB -17.96 dB 0:24 14-There's A Doctor

DR8 -1.23 dB -13.09 dB 3:48 15-Go To The Mirror!

DR9 -3.49 dB -16.22 dB 1:35 16-Tommy Can You Hear Me?

DR9 -2.27 dB -14.10 dB 1:35 17-Smash The Mirror

DR9 -1.74 dB -13.87 dB 2:26 18-Sensation

DR8 -2.34 dB -13.64 dB 0:13 19-Miracle Cure

DR9 -3.07 dB -14.56 dB 4:10 20-Sally Simpson

DR8 -1.16 dB -13.39 dB 2:39 21-I'm Free

DR10 -2.20 dB -17.99 dB 4:33 22-Welcome

DR10 -7.11 dB -20.70 dB 0:57 23-Tommy's Holiday Camp

DR9 -2.30 dB -14.71 dB 7:06 24-We're Not Gonna Take It

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 24

Official DR value: DR9

 

Samplerate: 192000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 5414 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8802[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8803[/ATTACH]

 

I have the 1969 US LP, which sounds good enough to me that I frequently use it in demos for friends. I have the DVD-A, which is I think indisputably the source or from the same source as the HDTracks download. (Reason I say this is because when ripping the DVD, three tracks, oddly, were put in a separate folder from the rest. When HDTracks originally offered the download, those same three tracks were not included. Coincidence? I think not.) I think the DVD-A sounds like crap, so if the download is the same source....

 

I also have the SHM-SACD, the DSD files from which I think sound terrific, rivalling the impact of the LP. If you don't have a DSD DAC or a way to get the DSD files from the SACD, then IMHO something sourced from the SHM-SACD or coming from the same source should sound a whole lot better than the DVD-A or the HDT download.

[firedog]

Judd-

 

Do you have one of the very early American pressings of the Tommy LP? Those were supposedly very good, but the somewhat later pressings are junk (and at some point the label switched, which also didn't help).

[wwaldmanfan]

I think the HDTracks Tommy is the 2003 SACD converted to PCM. As usual, there is the crushed dynamics of many SACD releases of remastered classic rock. Most tracks are rated DR 7.

 

So true. i have "found" a number of HDCD, SACD, and Blu-Spec CD2 remasters of classic rock from overseas on the internet, and most of them are awful, too compressed, with no DR. Dylan, the Stones, and Hendrix come to mind, especially. Seek out original pressings with no noise reduction wherever possible.

[simplon]

Can anyone offer a comparison of the two? The download is a fair bit cheaper, and seemingly well regarded, but I have read that the disc is basically a flat transfer of the original masters, and pretty good sounding as well. Trying to discern if the latter is worth an extra 35-40.00. Thanks.

 

Can't even find the album in the HDTracks catalog.

[jtm]

It's coming in 96/24 PCM stereo and 96/24 DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 on Pure Audio Blu-ray as well, included in ax expensive DeLuxe Edition released just a few days ago.

 

http://www.amazon.de/Tommy-Limited-Deluxe-Edition-Audio-Blu-ray/dp/B00DWVOPHI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383948528&sr=8-2&keywords=who+tommy

[sound chaser]

Having just done a three way shoot out featuring 'none of the above' I am preferring the dvd-a over Polydor Original and 2003 SACD (and redbook).

 

Still can't find anything about the sources used for the 2013 issues.

[Jud]

Judd-

 

Do you have one of the very early American pressings of the Tommy LP? Those were supposedly very good, but the somewhat later pressings are junk (and at some point the label switched, which also didn't help).

 

I had never bothered to look before (was a kid in junior high when I ran out and bought it), but apparently the answer is yes - DXSW 7205, original 1969 US Decca pressing in the trifold sleeve.

[AudGuy]

I also have a DECCA DXSW 7205 pressing from ... 1969, yikes ... and a 2003 SACD reissue from Geffen B0001386-36. The HDTracks version is very good, as good as the LP maybe, if the LP was still new, maybe not. The SACD sounds typically, remastered being very clean but lacking in dynamics and sort of sterile sounding. I know this only because I have something to compare it to.

 

I am liking this suite as much now as when I first heard it, all those years ago ... listening mostly to the download.

[Snowmonkey]

Wish they would bring out the version with the LSO in hi-res.

[KDinsmore]

The new Deluxe version is going to have a the Pure Audio Blu-ray too which hopefully kills all others.

[KDinsmore]

The DR level on the HDTracks is one of the worst for all the releases!