Magico, Merging Technologies, and Matan

Hi Randall - Thanks for commenting. Please don't take the following response personally. Let's meet up at CES and chat if anything I say is offensive :~)<br />

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I stand behind my opinion 100%. The Q5 is the best loudspeaker on the market today. I'm willing to bet you have opinions on the best loudspeaker, DAC, cable, etc... I don't feel the need to qualify every statement I make with the typical audiophile review speak (not aimed at you or anyone specific). In my dCS review I did use a qualifier such as, "Best DAC I've heard in my system." That's only because it was 100% truthful. The Magico Q5 doesn't need a qualifier in my opinion. I think manufacturers who produce the best gear should be rewarded with the superlatives to match. Not every speaker can be the best. I'm willing to take the heat for my opinion.<br />

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<i>"You would have to add Kharma Grand, Focal Grand, Dynaudio Master, Gryphon Poseidon, and a number of others, to be able to even approach validity with your statement."</i><br />

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Not so. If you're going to add the above speakers then you must add every speaker in every manufacturer's line no matter what the price and even speakers made my readers at home. With every statement in every context in life there are a certain number of assumptions one must make. Thus one doesn't have to experience every thing in the world to have an opinion and make a bold statement. <br />

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Again, nothing personal Randall.<br />

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Well if anyone wants to hear what Mykerinos cards/Pyramix workstation can really do, we'll be at the Venitian 29-335 playing DSD and up to 384kHz files from assorted labels. <br />

We'll be using DAD AX24 and Meitner/EMM Labs converters.<br />

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Regards,<br />

Bruce - Hopefully you read the article and realize this solution is a highly configured Mykerinios card with Pyramix software. It's really not like the rig you may have on display at CES. If people really want to here the solution I'm talking about they can visit the TAD and Magico rooms.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems pretty clear that all Chris is expressing, and can express, is a personal opinion as to what he considers to be the "best" speaker, DAC, server, etc. he's heard. He's not stating a fact, its an opinion.<br />

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It's up to us to weigh that opinion based on a variety of factors including the universe of equipment he's heard, business motivations, etc.. Whenever you have an advertising revenue based forum or publication you are going to have these issues. Buyer beware. <br />

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I remember last year when Jonathin Valin declared the Magico M5 the best speaker he had ever heard. Others contend the Wilson Alexandria is the "best". I heard the M5, Alexandria and Rockport Altair back-to-back in a controlled environment and easily preferred the Altair. Then I listened to the Geddes Summa and Abbey speakers and to my ear they outperformed all three at a fraction of the price and in "real world" rooms. What's "best" in an ultimately subjective hobby like high end audio will always come down to opinions and opinions typically have a bias.

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Earflappin says:<br />

"Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems pretty clear that all Chris is expressing, and can express, is a personal opinion as to what he considers to be the "best" speaker, DAC, server, etc. he's heard. He's not stating a fact, its an opinion."<br />

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I couldn't agree more.<br />

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I'll also state my opinion that this expectation some seem to have that Chris' should review gear head-to-head (in all manner of combinations) as some sort of final arbiter is surprising, and rather unfair expectation-wise. <br />

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This seems especially true in computer audiophiledom, where more and more we learn that the setup & configuration of the source system has a significant impact on the sound emanating from the DAC, and overall system. IOW, unless your source - and downstream components, for that matter - are set up the same as Chris', your results will likely be different.<br />

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clay<br />

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While I totally agree with earflappin as well, I don't think asking for gear comparisons is really unfair. Just like I value your opinion on the gear you've heard, I also value Chris's opinion as someone who has heard a wide variety of systems (far more than I ever will). I think most people come here looking for help on what components to buy/ how to set up their systems. If I go to a dealer I'm limited to comparing the gear they have on hand. There is no way I'd be able to gather up several dac's to compare in my own system, so I'm limited to doing research and then having a little bit of faith.<br />

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I think most manufacturers set out to make the best sounding gear they can and I'm sure Chris reviews gear that interests him, thus many pieces of gear he listens to get the thumbs up. But when it comes time to pull the trigger and buy something even a subjective comparison from a trusted source is more valuable than a list of components that all sound good and have similar functionality. Sure my system won't sound exactly like yours, but building your system to sound its best is I think what this is all about.

@Clay, et al., <br />

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I think it's a truism that all reviews are in fact opinions. Does that have to be the case? Or is there another way to go? I submit that there ought to be.<br />

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No review I've ever seen ever takes a recording of a transient waveform and compares that to another sample when a component has been swapped out/in. The two waveforms then would be "diff'ed" to show what, if any, changes have occurred and are therefore attributable to the components being compared. Note that this would require a comparison, but the results would be as objective as I can imagine, but then, I'm not terribly creative.<br />

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As far as the variability of system performance, well, "synergy" is a real PITA. How can we possibly remove the impact of great or poor synergy? Well, it turns out, this is a trivial problem to solve. The answer? Statistical sampling. <br />

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My solution is to take a variety of reviewers, have them all rate against the same bar, but with whatever reference gear they prefer. The more variation here the better, as the point of this would be to collect as much data as possible. Have each reviewer rate along the same scale or with the same chart or whatever. Tabulate the results and post the comparisons. This would generate a large set notes that would, I'd hope, point out the strengths or weaknesses of each piece of gear with a large variety of systems. <br />

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I think this would only work with a/b comparisons, and having the team reviewing doing all the same a/b comparisons. Should shed some serious light on "synergy" and "resolution" and all manner of other things. And also provide a great deal of useful info to all manner of interested parties ....

The closest example I'm aware of, and it's probably not that close, was the blind testing done by the ULN-8 beta testers against a number of the ULN-8's top competitors (8 or more of them, as I recall).<br />

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I wasn't involved in it, so don't know the specifics other than what is mentioned above, and that the ULN-8 came out on top.<br />

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Scot says:<br />

"How can we possibly remove the impact of great or poor synergy? Well, it turns out, this is a trivial problem to solve. The answer? Statistical sampling." <br />

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I'd suggest that the optimal way to solve the synergy issue is to test the gear on one's own system. This has the additional advantage that it is within ones' own power/resources to make it happen. Admittedly not always a simple task, it seems orders of magnitude easier to pull off than getting the type of panel you describe to do enough listening to provide statistically valid results.<br />

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just my two cents,<br />

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clay<br />

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What os is the Matan server running? Also any pics?<br />

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Jesus R<br />

www.sonore.us

Hi Jesus - I believe the official version of the Matan server runs a highly customized embedded Unix OS. The server I saw this week was in the final chassis but ran Windows XP for the Mykerinos card and Pyramix software. <br />

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I'll take some photos at CES in the Magico room.

Chris, - I applaud the updates on the new Computer Audio kit, such is a real reason I frequent this site. Now your quip, on the new dCS DAC led to a bit of sleuthing with the following uncovered, ex the CES website:<br />

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"dCS will be introducing their new Debussy digital-to-analog converter. Housed in the sleek U-Clock chassis, Debussy features a wide array of inputs, including dCS' patent-pending asynchronous USB, as well as traditional S/PDIF and AEB/EBU. An LED-based display indicates active input, sample rate, and volume level. The control board and Ring DAC are derived from those in the Paganini DAC, with variable output of either 2V or 6V available on either XLR balanced or RCA unbalanced analog connectors. <br />

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Curious range that dCS now has...I really begin to wonder what the substantive audio/musical/sonic differentiation is between the Debussy, Paganini, and Scarlatti DAC's....be interested if you could find out more on how dCS sees the relative merits<br />

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Chris, I highly doubt that the Mykerinos card that you heard is any better than what's available to the mastering engineers worldwide. Hell... it can't even do DSD/DXD... what does that tell you? Just as Amarra isn't any better than a Sonic Solutions or NexStage system.<br />

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Besides, have you actually worked with and listened to a DSD/DXD Pyramix system at any length in YOUR system?<br />

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$12,000 can get you a Sonoma system AND Mytek converter!<br />

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Regards,<br />

Chris Connaker: "I've heard the Model 4 more times than I can remember. I personally like the Alpha DAC much better."<br />

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Chris, since you've heard the Model 4 (ULN-8) in several environments, you must have an impression of its salient characteristics. Can you share that with us?<br />

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Even if you've never heard the Model 4 in your own system, if you've heard some characteristics that tend to persist in several environments, that's quite meaningful since those characteristics have a high likelihood of manifesting in other people's systems.<br />

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Thanks!

"PS, Mani, should you ever decide to, uhm,...oh, never mind, not gonna happen. ;)"<br />

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Not sure what's "not gonna happen"... BUT...<br />

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If you mean using my Model Two for a shootout between it and a ULN8... you're right - I have no interest whatsoever in doing this. This could only ever end up being a promotion for the ULN8, which, let's face it, doesn't really need any more on this site ;-)<br />

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If you mean selling it... you're definitely right - over my dead body!<br />

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Mani.<br />

PS If you ever find a Model Two going for $12K, let me know.

Dear Clay:<br />

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If you do not mind me inquiring;<br />

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1 what microphones do you own?<br />

2. what microphone preamps do you own?<br />

3. how many mics do you generally use for a recording?<br />

4. what type of music do you record and in what type of venues?<br />

5. which plug-in(s), if any, do you use.<br />

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I am curious to learn more about your music background.<br />

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Regards,<br />

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Tim Marutani<br />

Emeryville, CA

Chris, you said, "If people really want to here the solution I'm talking about they can visit the TAD and Magico rooms."<br />

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Will people be able to hear the Matan server, Pyramix software, Mykerinos card and PM Model Two in these rooms?<br />

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Do you know what amplification they will use?<br />

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Mani.

Lately I have not been contributing to the forums as often as I have in the past. However, Chris, this very interesting article regarding the Merging Technologies Mykerinos Audio Card was just too good to pass by. I am a little lost as to exactly who is who in this new product venture.<br />

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Okay, Merging Technologies is located outside Geneva, Switzerland and basically described as a Software Company specializing in Audio/Visual software applications, and writing code for ASIC boards. Mykerinos and Pyramix are trademarked brand names of Merging Technologies. This is a well established company in the professional audio/visual industry.<br />

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Marutani Consulting claims to be an audio retail operation located in Emeryville, California and owned by Tim Marutani. Their website is currently under construction without any information but has posted a phone number, fax and e-mail address, but no street address.<br />

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The Audio Salon seems also to be a retailer of high end components (primarily MBL), has a website with a single toll free number and no known address, and the only name associated with the company is the proprietor Maier Shadi who is not mentioned on the website but is located somewhere in the vast area of southern California.<br />

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Reiff Audio is a completely unknown entity working with Merging Technologies and has already awarded dealerships to Marutani Consulting and The Audio Salon in exchange for their beta testing services. So exactly who is Reiff Audio? Who are the principles, Where are they located, and exactly What does the company do?<br />

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Please let me know if I’m reading your breaking news correctly or not. You fly across country to the San Francisco Bay area to check out a new PCI audio board based on the established Pyramix software and Mykerinos ASIC audio board. The board and software are being reconfigured for the high end consumer market by the totally unknown Reiff Audio. You listen to the product in a Zalman TNN300 (which is an empty black box) running Windows XP (two generation old operating system) and post a photo of the Mykerinos 64 channel audio editing board which has no outputs. The product will be available for ~$12,000 from only two dealerships - audio retailers without any known physical address. <br />

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So, Chris, what is the real story here? <br />

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I completely understand your enthusiasm to explore the cutting edge of what is available in computer audio technology, and to establish benchmarks for your readers. I actually look forward to reading your excellent articles. But somehow this article reads like “psst, hey buddy, take a look, I have an audio card for you right here in my jacket.” From the facts presented it has all the tell tale indicators of a fly-by-night operation. I cannot speak for everyone else here, but I am not naive enough to hand over $12,000 to someone on the other side of the country with no known address.<br />

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Daphne<br />

“With every statement in every context in life there are a certain number of assumptions one must make.”<br />

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No offense taken Chris, and thanks. Your statement above is the clarification I needed. You “assume” it is the best, which is by definition all you could do since you have not heard the other, equally ambitious loudspeakers. I won’t be at CES this year, but will buy you a beer at the next show.

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My 'not gonna happen' was of the 'over my dead body' variety, as you surmised.<br />

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I'm not a big believer in shoot-outs, given that they are very installation specific, and that the 'results' seem to be taken (by most) all out of proportion to their actual relevance/importance, IMO.<br />

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re my $12k comment, I did say 'if one can be had for as little as $12k'. I only used that number as a guess, given that it made the math of the Mykerinos / Model two combo FOUR times the price of a ULN-8. <br />

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all the best in 2010,<br />

clay<br />

Hi Daphne - I assure you this is no fly by night operation. Tim and Maier were co-sponsors of the CA Symposium and run well established businesses. I prefer not to speak for them so I'll ask them to respond to your skepticism. I know Tim and Maier have many customers who browse CA and hopefully they can respond as well. <br />

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Trust me I have no interest in fly by night anything.

<br />

1 what microphones do you own?<br />

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Sennheiser MKH-30, MHK-40, MHK-20; a figure-8, cardiod, and omni, respectively, are my primary mics. I also have a Core Sound High End Binaural setup of matched DPA 4060s that I recently purchased for actual music recording in semi-stealth mode. And finally a pair of handmade Telinga EM-23s (very low noise, small omnis) from Klas Sandberg in Sweden, he of Telinga parabolic mic fame.<br />

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2. what microphone preamps do you own?<br />

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I use only portable mic preamps. My first, and smallest, is Sound Devices MP-2, later a Grace Lunatec V3 (bought from Kavi Alexander, who had it custom built with a high gain mode and a mid-side switch), and finally I have the ULN-2, which I rarely actually record with since it's the largest of the three and also requires a computer.<br />

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3. how many mics do you generally use for a recording?<br />

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Only two. Normal setup is Middle-Side matrix using the MKH-30 with either the 40, or the 20 as the Middle mic. Or either of the pair of omnis, of course. I need to put together an Ambisonic mic setup which would require additional mics, but designed as single point source. I also own the Zoom H2, a hand held recorder with (low quality) built-in 4 channel mics, which can record in surround sound, and be decoded with an Ambisonic(-like) plug-in.<br />

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4. what type of music do you record and in what type of venues?<br />

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I rarely record music, preferring to record the sounds found naturally in nature, which puts extreme pressure on the quality of gear given the low levels I'm attempting to record. Think, preamps running near full out as a matter of course.<br />

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5. which plug-in(s), if any, do you use.<br />

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Don't normally use much in the way of plug-ins, although I hope to be able to use more of the available Ambisonics plug-ins if I can ever get a proper Ambisonic mic setup sorted out. <br />

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Any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.<br />

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And keep up the great work advancing the SOTA. I"d love to visit, but am across the country. Perhaps in 2010, I'll be out your way.<br />

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Cheers,<br />

clay<br />

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Mani - That exact combination should be in use in the Magico room. The TAD room will not use a Model Two or a Matan server, but will use everything else.

For all those who manage to hear the Magico room (especially), please post your thoughts...<br />

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Mani.

Ordinarily, I would have shared a dose of your skepticism... were it not for the fact that people will be able to hear these products for themselves this week. Unfortunately, not me :-(<br />

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As a result of writting what he has, Chris has actually stuck his neck out quite a bit... don't you think?<br />

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Mani.

Chris, here's another new speaker to check out at CES.<br />

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Brian Cheney of VMPS will be introducing "A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer."<br />

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See the links below for more info.<br />

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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75909.0<br />

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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75905.0<br />

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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73700.0