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Well, Hostgator has a nice integrated server for $374/month, with an enormous amount of bandwidth (10TB), so perhaps I am overestimating. On the other paw, I spend more like $1500/month for a rack with one 30amp power circuit and one 4mbs Ethernet drop. But that fits out business needs much much better.

-Paul

Richard

I was referring to the subscriber-only fora. What was most valuable to me at the start was collecting the views of experienced members on particular pieces of kit (performance, reliability etc) and the identification of items I'd not previously considered. My understanding is that manufacturer-specific discussions of this type will not all be accessible to non-subscribers.

David

Another member who is not convinced.

When I started looking at Computer Audio possibilities a couple of years ago I trawled the net to learn the basics before posing some questions here. The answers I got were valuable and very helpful. Computer Audiophile became my first stop for further education in this area. I'm probably now sufficiently well informed to appreciate the value of the site and hence pay a subscription but sure as eggs is eggs Computer Audiophile will no longer be a prime route for newbies to get into the subject, which is a sad loss.

David

Huh - I am at a total loss why you would think that, as nothing has been taken away, only more stuff added. Spend the $5 for a month's subscription, have a look, and then decide. That's the price of a cup of coffee these days, and I really think you will find your apprehensions are unfounded.

Yours,

-Paul

I would be happy to see the "Subscriber" tag go, since I do think it creates an artificial "elite" class of members.I can see how it might have some marketing value in terms of attracting additional subscribers, but it just seems a bit anti-democratic to me.

Beyond that, though, I think the subscriptions make sense. The "freemium" model is pretty well accepted at this point, and I hope it will work out well for Chris. I'd guess that it will, at the very least, allow him to make solid base income projections, which should ultimately benefit all CA participants. The initial "subscribers only" topics suggest that non-subscribers won't be missing much in terms of "core" content (except, of course, for the one forum where all the subscribers get to badmouth all the non-subscribers). (That's a joke, lest you have any doubts.) We'll just have to see how the buy/sell stuff works out -- way too early to tell. I'm sure Chris won't be averse to tweaking things to make them better for all participants.

For me, there are three good reasons to subscribe: First is that I'm happy to surrender some funds in exchange for all the educational and entertainment value I derive from CA. Second, the subscriber discounts are quite attractive -- I'm pretty sure that just between Channel Classics, Blue Coast, and HDT, I can recoup the cost of my first year's subscription ... and that's on stuff I would have purchased anyway. I confess to being somewhat baffled by the claims that the discounts are US-centric (though I wouldn't turn up my nose at a subscriber discount from Qobuz). Finally, I'm happy to contribute to the Connaker College Fund.

--David

At first I was excited by the Buy/Sell opportunity but after the points made about reaching a limited subscribed audience I would have to pass. I would be much more inclined to pay a fee to have the entire forum be able to access the things I have to offer for sale.

Richard

I was referring to the subscriber-only fora. What was most valuable to me at the start was collecting the views of experienced members on particular pieces of kit (performance, reliability etc) and the identification of items I'd not previously considered. My understanding is that manufacturer-specific discussions of this type will not all be accessible to non-subscribers.

David

Honestly, DavidL, I do not see that happening. It does not make sense (not you). I am referring to what Chris created that addressed your need(s). I do not pretend to speak for Chris. The Forum that Chris created that pulled you, me, and thousands in is not about to disappear. The contributors you value and the outcomes you seek are not about to disappear because a Subscriber status has been implemented. Proof? I am responding to you at the moment and I am already a Subscriber. What prevents you and others from exchanges you desire?

I can appreciate that not having access to threads only intended for Subscribers may cause some ill-ease about what might be available to some but not to the general population. The cure is to present what you need and what others seek and wait for responses. In that regard nothing will change.

I suspect what is reasonable to regard about a Subscriber section with content that is prospectively not unavailable to you (which only costs a dollar a week) is content not available to you because you choose not to avail yourself of a status that is so reasonable in cost as to turn the perspective back to you, i.e., what would prevent you from subscribing if only for a month to assess if it is worth the cost. Is it possible that the Subscriber section is a portal for exchanges that avoids unwanted contributions which only frustrate the very discussions you value when certain individuals contribute that which only deters the progress, clarity and advancement of understanding and evolution of computer audio?

I do not mean to sound preaching or lofty. Merely to present a perspective that challenges many perspectives which seem to find the advent of a subscription as a negative. I am signaling what I find are positives in the spirit of what I believe has fostered the subscriber implementation. Your call.

Best,

Richard

I think the buy/sell sub would be more vibrant if anyone could view the items for sale, not just members. If a buyer want to make an offer, they could then sign up for membership. If the buy/sell sub is members only for potential buyers, then the majority of potential customers will be folks also trying to sell gear. Just my 2 cents. :-)

Chris,

With all due respect... A couple of questions / remarks:

- An add-free environment... I am not sure if anyone still is really bothered with adds anymore. Practically every site is filled with those, and with most people using fast internet connections, it will not really slow down browsing these days. Perhaps for mobile devices?

- What would be the purpose of a subscriber-only topic? Why would anyone want to start one? It will just limit the amount of responses one would get. The fact that people are willing to spend money on a subscription does not mean quality will go up for these topics. However, it might filter (to some extent) input from "objectivists".

- Buy and sell could be a good thing, but I would expand the buying part to non-subscribers as well.

- I suspect discounts on hard- and software is the most appealing feature. As a suggestion I can give to offer "group-buys" for popular products. I have seen some pretty good results of that, resulting in very good prices if interest is high enough. Could be quite a bit of work though!

Just my R$ 0,02

Regards,

Peter

My $.02 is this:

I think Chris runs a great site, and if he needs some addtl funding I am more than willing to donate. Lord knows it has helped me save time, money and lots of trial/error. And buying into a "preferred" category to get subsidized HDtracks deals, or 10 free classified postings, etc is a nice option.

However, the idea of ad-free browsing, subscription-only forum threads and subscription-only classifieds has no appeal...for one, I do not want to limit any information dissemination to a subset of posters....heck, the whole CA thing is still in its infancy, and some of the best ideas still come from "outside the box". and two, i want my ads to be seen and available to EVERYONE...it's table stakes for selling online. Typically I'd sell my first or second generation CA stuff, and expect newer struggling CA viewers, or even guest passersby, to be my audience, not the well-heeled usual suspect CA veterans (who are probably the most likely subscriber candidates).

I'm ready to spend $50 on Chris's business, but would much rather see it used another way...

Hi Guys - Maybe taking a look at what's actually in the CA Subscribers forum will ease some of your concerns. I've included a screenshot of the topics below. I'm no fool. I see the value in keeping the core discussions open to everyone. I would never paywall off core content. I've also studied countless sites before implementing the Subscriptions. One I really like is ArsTechnica.com. I took the best of the Ars subscription model and added a lot to it for CA.

There are several ways to implement a Buy/Sell forum. Sites like FredMiranda do a great job by allowing everyone to view items for sale but only allow subscribers to sell items. This model is actually my plan. I'm just working out the details for who can post, respond, sell, buy, with read-only or post privileges etc... As a seller I would want as many eyes on my items as possible. In the near future the Buy/Sell forum will be adjusted, but only Subscribers will be able to sell.

Hi Guys - Maybe taking a look at what's actually in the CA Subscribers forum will ease some of your concerns. I've included a screenshot of the topics below. I'm no fool. I see the value in keeping the core discussions open to everyone. I would never paywall off core content. I've also studied countless sites before implementing the Subscriptions. One I really like is ArsTechnica.com. I took the best of the Ars subscription model and added a lot to it for CA.

 

There are several ways to implement a Buy/Sell forum. Sites like FredMiranda do a great job by allowing everyone to view items for sale but only allow subscribers to sell items. This model is actually my plan. I'm just working out the details for who can post, respond, sell, buy, with read-only or post privileges etc... As a seller I would want as many eyes on my items as possible. In the near future the Buy/Sell forum will be adjusted, but only Subscribers will be able to sell.

 

 

If that is the case that everyone can see and purchase but only subscribers can post classifieds then I would have no objection and I will subscribe. Are the classifieds ready to fly because I am ready to post (as soon as I subscribe of course)?

If that is the case that everyone can see and purchase but only subscribers can post classifieds then I would have no objection and I will subscribe. Are the classifieds ready to fly because I am ready to post (as soon as I subscribe of course)?

Making some adjustments right now.

• The Buy/Sell forum is now visible to the world.
  

• Registered CA users can only buy.
  

• CA Subscribers can buy and sell.
  

So Chris, what's the point of segregating the new topics. You don't want non-subscribers (newbies in particular) to have access to questions about CA? Those who probably need to know how to whatever most still won't have a place to ask or search. And of course non-subscribers will still have no choice but to litter up the general forum with non CA topics. Doesn't that go against the purpose of the Anything But CA topic?

Anyway, I'm glad you decided to change the Buy/sell, I'll probably subscribe now, but I still think you should open all topics to everyone. I think the Buy/Sell in particular, and less so the discounts are enough incentive for folks to subscribe. On the other hand I still find the separate topics off putting, pointless and possibly a negative in general for the site.

-Chris

Let me add to my previous comment.

If I was a subscriber, why would I post under the subscriber only topics unless I wanted to restrict my potential audience? IOW, not only non-subscribers are being restricted, but subscribers too. I think I would want everyone's input re my post, not just the few (or many) that are paid subscribers, so I would continue to post in the General forum as long as there are topics that are subscriber only.

-Chris

Seriously, people. Five bloody dollars per month? FIVE! How many of you didn't spend that on coffee today? Or more embarrassingly; what percentage of your last hifi purchase is $5? And we get 65 posts of mostly pissing and moaning about the site that has supposedly welcomed, informed, educated, amused and entertained you for years for FREE now offering some extra fluff and some pretty decent discounts for those willing to pay an OPTIONAL subscription. Pathetic.

I wasn't going to subscribe because I just wasn't that interested and I can't currently afford even the discounted prices on the download websites but now I will, just to show you up for all the whining tight-arses that you have exposed yourself to be.

RS

So Chris, what's the point of segregating the new topics. You don't want non-subscribers (newbies in particular) to have access to questions about CA? Those who probably need to know how to whatever most still won't have a place to ask or search. And of course non-subscribers will still have no choice but to litter up the general forum with non CA topics. Doesn't that go against the purpose of the Anything But CA topic?

I agree, crisnee, regarding the Questions, Comments, Concerns section of the subscriber forum. It seems to me this could very easily duplicate discussions in the general user forum (there already is a major thread along this general line), and it's my own personal feeling that anything that smacks of "You kids can chat out here, and meanwhile we adults will retire to the drawing room for brandy and cigars to make the real decisions" should be avoided.

I actually think having the off-topic forum in the subscriber section is a good idea. From experience on other fora dealing with a wide variety of issues, it is far, far too easy for a handful of obsessive-compulsive folks driven by very strange agendas to completely overwhelm all well-meaning attempts at fostering community in an OT forum. (For example, I've seen Holocaust deniers take over biological science discussion forums, forcing forum owners to change their former all-comers policy on who can post.)

The remaining forum (other than the buy/sell forum, which Chris C now appears to have modified to most folks' satisfaction - thanks, Chris) concerns discussions of specific audio equipment dealers. Chris talks in the topic "subtitle" about his reasons for making this subscriber-only. I don't have tremendously strong feelings about this because the old friend from whom I bought most of my equipment, and who I still enjoy talking to about audio and everything else under the sun, closed up his own shop long ago.

Anyway, I'm glad you decided to change the Buy/sell, I'll probably subscribe now, but I still think you should open all topics to everyone. I think the Buy/Sell in particular, and less so the discounts are enough incentive for folks to subscribe. On the other hand I still find the separate topics off putting, pointless and possibly a negative in general for the site.

 

-Chris

Can't say as you're wrong, crisnee, the separate topic forums have certainly engendered some negative comments. I agree with you that one of these ought not to be subscriber-only, agree with Chris C that one should be subscriber-only, and don't really care much one way or the other about the third. I appreciate Chris C's willingness to listen and be flexible, as exemplified by modifying the buy/sell forum. So I guess we will all continue to wait and see how this turns out.

- An add-free environment... I am not sure if anyone still is really bothered with adds anymore. Practically every site is filled with those, and with most people using fast internet connections, it will not really slow down browsing these days. Perhaps for mobile devices?

Hey Peter- poking my nose in just a tad. The ad-free browsing makes an absolutely amazing difference. I did not expect that at all, and in fact, I was at a bit of a loss to explain it, but it truly makes an amazing difference for me.

Secondly, subscriptions have one other pretty awesome side product- you can be somewhat confident a subscriber is a real person, because they have a real Paypal account (which requires a much higher level of vetting) - yet, the subscriber can still maintain their anonymous handles and such here. Nicely planned way to filter out spammers and scammers and allow some safety in a buy/sell environment. For the buyer if the buyer is not a subscriber- for the buyer and seller if the buyer is a subscriber.

Yours,

Paul

Sorry Chris, I won't be subscribing. This goes totally against the main reason I'm here - to share my experiences and learn from the experiences of others. The CA ads I understand and put up with (I've never clicked on one and cannot imagine ever doing so), but restricted forums and an 'elite' CA group? No sorry, not for me.

 

Mani.

I share your sentiment and doubt that I'll be posting much more at CA.

double post deleted

My 2 cents.

RS, I can only speak for myself - my view on this has nothing to do with money. I'm only really concerned with the subscription-only forum (a slippery slope IMO) and that horrid 'Subscriber' badge (implying that only subscribers are part of the club); the discounts, buying/selling and ad-free browsing sound fine... for those who are interested.

Mani.

RS, I can only speak for myself - my view on this has nothing to do with money. I'm only really concerned with the subscription-only forum (a slippery slope IMO) and that horrid 'Subscriber' badge (implying that only subscribers are part of the club); the discounts, buying/selling and ad-free browsing sound fine... for those who are interested.

 

Mani.

Well put Mani, this is not at all about money.

I share your sentiment and doubt that I'll be posting much more at CA.

There's something deeper going on here. Almost a violation. Sure, without Chris this site wouldn't exist, but it shouldn't be forgotten that forum members built up the real value of this site. And to exclude these same members from certain forum discussions because they haven't subscribed just seems strange. The subscribers say that these restricted forum areas really are quite banal. OK, so why have them restricted?

In any event, if goldsdad's post isn't a wakeup call, I don't know what is. But Chris, it's your site. You decide which products to review and you decide who get's to see what around here. But this won't feel like the same place I started posting some three ago now. Shame.

Mani.

Any possibility we might be overreacting a bit before we have even begun to see the effects and results of the new order? Are there historical precedence or experiences that go to the direct heart of this matter than can be shared as examples of the horrors we might face? If not then we might all lighten up a little bit and see what shakes out and then make pronouncements and decisisons. I say this because I also made a statement regarding one aspect of the issue and it turns out I was wrong and all was well.