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Sorry Chris, I won't be subscribing. This goes totally against the main reason I'm here - to share my experiences and learn from the experiences of others. The CA ads I understand and put up with (I've never clicked on one and cannot imagine ever doing so), but restricted forums and an 'elite' CA group? No sorry, not for me.

 

Mani.

Mani, I definitely empathize. I decided to subscribe after initial misgivings along the lines you describe.

The restricted forums were something that concerned me as well. But when I saw the subjects of the subscriber-only forums, it seemed to me that Chris had chosen wisely in that regard. If Chris wants to say what the subscriber forum topics are (other than buy/sell equipment, which he's already mentioned), that's up to him; but I will say it seems unlikely to me that any subscriber threads will duplicate subject matter in the threads open to all comers.

Sorry Chris, I won't be subscribing. This goes totally against the main reason I'm here - to share my experiences and learn from the experiences of others. The CA ads I understand and put up with (I've never clicked on one and cannot imagine ever doing so), but restricted forums and an 'elite' CA group? No sorry, not for me.

 

Mani.

Hi Mani- I certainly can not speak for Chris, but I look at it this way. Nobody should be clicking on ads if they don't want to. However, ad click-through revenue was, so far as I know, the only revenue generating activity on the site. No click throughs, no money to pay the ISP, lab costs for testing, defray tavel costs, etc. That gets expensive, quickly.

I could click through a few dozen times per month to support the site, or just put out a wee bit of money and enjoy the site sans ads. The ads being gone makes the site lightening fast for me. Subsecond refreshes in some cases, even on an iPad.

I don't see subscriptions creating any kind of elite or anything like that. Just a convienent way to support the site, and with a few side benefits - like potentionally grabbing some significant extra music - effectively recoouping the cost of the subscription. (Check out the bonus section...)

In any case, I see your point and am glad that nothing is changing that will prevent me from reading your great postings. One of these days, you might push me over the edge into sending Peter some money for one of his DACs. Well, I might have to get over a distrust of Windows first, but... miracles do happen!

Paul

Not sure how/why I double posted. Sorry bout that.

Maybe a better buy/sell would be to only allow those with a certain number of (meaningful) posts/contributions as a member. I think it becomes pretty clear over time and a few discussion posts whether a member is a sincere, legitimate, individual with a true interest in all things computer audio, or not. But then again, I'm sure Chris has put much more thought into the buy/sell forum than my 2 minutes, and I'm sure he has contemplated all options.

I must say I agree with Chris (crisnee)... Either the forum is free, or you want people to pay to be part of your club. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic. But saying "special subscribers forums" sounds a bad idea. Personally I would likely wander elsewhere if I felt I was excluded from some forums on a "free" website.

Advert free browsing; ability to place "For Sale adverts" (but with everyone able to view to buy) and the special offers do make sense ... The rest perhaps not (to me).

Eloise

Hi Richard - As the first CA product for sale the mesh hat is a reasonably priced way for me to start offering products. To get a decent price on them I had to order 144. The same quantity in a the non-mesh hat, that is designed but not in production, would have cost me far more than I could spend. I wasn't sure if anyone was even interested in a hat. I actually like the mesh hat quite a bit. I wear it all the time. Introducing a product I don't prefer is the way I had to do it, but there was no way I would introduce a product I didn't like. I also wouldn't offer the mesh hat knowing that a non-mesh version would be available soon. I hate when manufacturers do things like this and I won't participate in that business. The non-mesh version is designed but isn't on the top of my list to get produced just yet. I would rather launch the CA shirts and sweatshirts before the non-mesh hat, but the investment is substantially more as the quality of shirt and sweatshirt are excellent.

 

As you know there's only so much time in the day and so much capital to work with.

Thank you for helping me appreciate what's involved initiating a product (line) for CA.

I also thank you for the email from Jared Sacks of Channel Downloads informing me as a new member of CA subscriptions I am entitled to a free download in any resolution and in any format including DSD. That's a lovely gesture in connection with new membership and appreciated. Good luck with your ambitious business endeavors. I can also appreciate what it takes to make it happen in terms of hours and sweat.

Best,

Richard

I know that to some this may sound unbelievable and or it is unintional or it is a bug, or ?

But do we know that when we are logged in to the site - and no I don't have a subscription - only the first 18 or 19 posts show ? (there are 31 now). I can't imagine that this is the first proof of that I'm not allowed to see everything anymore. But hey, when not logged in all shows.

At least IE8 and Chrome both show this behavior.

Btw notice that the header of the topic says "18 comments" as well. Not so at the main page though, where it says 31.

I hope this was a useful contribution.

And that it was off topic. Haha.

Peter

Hi Chris,

I have been around for about a year and a half now and I appreciate it very much.

Though I know that it must demand a lot to get a forum going in the right direction, plus the fact that I respect what you are offering us, I would have preferred another way to contribute - a donation would have been fine (I can only express this for me, not for others). When I use a software (a freeware to be precise), if I feel it useful for me, I give a donation to show my appreciation.

"To each its own" they say. I just hope that this site will stay as successful as it has been up to now. I have learned a lot of things, taken what I felt I needed to be happy and I hope I have helped some people whenever I felt I could do.

I just wish you the best

Alain

I am probably with manisandher on this one. Will think over it a little, plus the majority of the 'added value' is only relevant to US users. Yes Naim is there (yes I am UK based!) but frankly I have never been a bit fan of their label.

Having said that, Chris has to monetize his members somehow so I wish him good luck; all good things must come to end:)

I am probably with manisandher on this one. Will think over it a little, plus the majority of the 'added value' is only relevant to US users. Yes Naim is there (yes I am UK based!) but frankly I have never been a bit fan of their label.

 

Having said that, Chris has to monetize his members somehow so I wish him good luck; all good things must come to end:)

I am with blueixux, manisandher and audioelf. A year ago or more when asked about a buy/sell section, the answer was a resounding "no". Now, not only is there a "CA" cap, one needs to be a paid "member" to use a feature that was panned a year ago plus access additional fora. To add to this, there is a "subscriber" tag by ones name. Sort of seems like a "good 'ole boys" club to me, all the while the quality of content has degraded as the S/N ratio increased. What's next I have to wonder?

And the free content seems like a back door deal, and the beginnings of CA being no different than an audio rag. How can impartiality remain when there are such entanglements?

I know that to some this may sound unbelievable and or it is unintional or it is a bug, or ?

 

But do we know that when we are logged in to the site - and no I don't have a subscription - only the first 18 or 19 posts show ? (there are 31 now). I can't imagine that this is the first proof of that I'm not allowed to see everything anymore. But hey, when not logged in all shows.

At least IE8 and Chrome both show this behavior.

 

Btw notice that the header of the topic says "18 comments" as well. Not so at the main page though, where it says 31.

 

I hope this was a useful contribution.

And that it was off topic. Haha.

 

Peter

Tried refreshing and/or dumping the cache? Still the same?

Hi Forrest -

You make some good points mate.

But have you done the math? I think it makes a difference in the way I evaluate it at least. If Chris gained three thousand yearly subscribers, that would be $15,000 in income, and just about cover the hosting and ISP costs for the site. Maybe...

And each of those subscribers has potentionally, somewhere around $160 in savings or cash back from the subscription.

And a safe spammer / scammer free area to sell and buy used equipment among friends, with no fees.

And they are not nagged by ads while enjoying the site

That estimation influenced my thinking.

But even better, there are no restrictions on those who do not subscribe. Just some pretty cool extras for those who do.

YMMV.

-Paul

I also have multiple issues with these stripped down mini forums underneath featured articles. The latest posts do not show up, I can tell cause they ARE visible when I click quote reply on the last posting, I will then see the latest posts on that page which otherwise are not visible.

Back to the topic, paid subscription also does not sit well with me (reminds me of the site AudioAficionado).

If money is needed to support this site I am sure MANY will be willing to donate to help cover the costs.

Hi Forrest -

 

You make some good points mate.

 

But have you done the math? I think it makes a difference in the way I evaluate it at least. If Chris gained three thousand yearly subscribers, that would be $15,000 in income, and just about cover the hosting and ISP costs for the site. Maybe...

 

And each of those subscribers has potentionally, somewhere around $160 in savings or cash back from the subscription.

 

And a safe spammer / scammer free area to sell and buy used equipment among friends, with no fees.

 

And they are not nagged by ads while enjoying the site

 

That estimation influenced my thinking.

 

But even better, there are no restrictions on those who do not subscribe. Just some pretty cool extras for those who do.

 

YMMV.

 

-Paul

My point was not so much Chris making money, but that making arrangements for "subscriber deals" is a slippery slope in the impartiality department. Especially considering something like HDTracks, whom have had such a poor performance in certain aspects. Furthermore, the announcement that one is a subscriber seems to create a needless, yet potentially destructive division.

My point was not so much Chris making money, but that making arrangements for "subscriber deals" is a slippery slope in the impartiality department. Especially considering something like HDTracks, whom have had such a poor performance in certain aspects. Furthermore, the announcement that one is a subscriber seems to create a needless, yet potentially destructive division.

You know, I didn't even notice that subscriber tag? Yeah, that might be a bit divisive in some ways, but then again, perhaps not. I am rather fond of this place, and would like it to continue. I also understand why Chris might be reluctant to take donations, as this is a business to him, and there could easily be tax ramifications and so on.

Myself, I think he struck a good compromise, and this opens a lot of opportunities that were not possible before.

-Paul

Hi Forrest -

 

You make some good points mate.

 

But have you done the math? I think it makes a difference in the way I evaluate it at least. If Chris gained three thousand yearly subscribers, that would be $15,000 in income, and just about cover the hosting and ISP costs for the site. Maybe...

 

And each of those subscribers has potentionally, somewhere around $160 in savings or cash back from the subscription.

 

And a safe spammer / scammer free area to sell and buy used equipment among friends, with no fees.

 

And they are not nagged by ads while enjoying the site

 

That estimation influenced my thinking.

 

But even better, there are no restrictions on those who do not subscribe. Just some pretty cool extras for those who do.

 

YMMV.

 

-Paul

Paul you left off a zero. 3000*yearlyX $50= $150,000.;>]

Best,

Richard

Give the guy a break. I think Chris does a fantastic job with this site. It's a lot of blood, sweat and tears to make it all happen I'm sure. While I respect the wishes of others not to subscribe, I was only too happy to do so. I've learned a lot from the many great forum posts, articles and equipment reviews on this site and I want to see it continue. If subscribing helps bring in extra money to ensure the continuation of the site then I am all for it. I didn't sign up because of the extras, although they are appreciated. I really can't see how non-subscribers are going to suffer because of this. If you don't want to subscribe then don't, the user experience is just the same as it was before. I highly doubt that the subject matter in the subscriber only section would be duplicated somewhere else in the forum, why would it? Surely you would want the participation of a wider audience.

Colin

Yikes- and me a math major....

Yes, I did, I was thinking 300 and then I expanded it to 3000 in the comment I wrote.

-Paul

The spirit of frederick184 has a good perspective about this. Change is always the constant and changes the status quo. My belief is that what Chris created that kept us as members when subscriptions were not available represent values and outcomes that I believe Chris remains true to despite the advent of subscriptions. Perhaps it's in the realm of a Premium membership or whatever symmetry favors the positive result of it. I do not believe Chris means solely to find a method for profit only. Granted the Forum and costs must be increasing. There's just so much I would want to sell anyway.

Looking at the longer term view of what subscriptions offer and may expand to offer, I am able to turn the obstacles, if any, into opportunities. For example, this may not be a big incentive for some of us, but now that the advertising is "gone", I actually did not realize it. I felt relaxed as in room to breathe and my attention was not being pulled at from the periphery by flash ads blinking and moving about. Once I realized the ads were gone and the result on me, I was happy about that. Did they have any real impact on me before. Not really.

My heart is where it's always been: I also want to be with the general population of members as far as the forum goes. No solitary for me. I also hope the food is better in the subscription forums. I actually do not know what the subscription-oriented forum threads will be like or that it is an incentive to me. I do have some interesting items I would love to sell in a safe and secure environment under the umbrella of CA. But as I said I only have certain items and when they're gone, the incentive evaporates for the time being.

I also know I am given the opportunity to bow out if I so choose. Or take it on month to month to try it out. I chose the yearly subscription as it made the most sense to me. Especially since I dislike Paypal and only seek to deal with them as infrequently as I have to.

After Channel Downloads contacted me to set up a process for choosing my gift (as I choose to regard it), I also received an email notice from B&W re the gift a yearly subscription provides me. So the benefits are trickling in and that is a nice gift all around.

To subscribe or not to subscribe, that is the question. Hope it gets crowded.

Richard

But even better, there are no restrictions on those who do not subscribe. Just some pretty cool extras for those who do.

-Paul

If that is indeed the case, then fine. I haven't seen the forum topics for subscribers yet, but I trust the judgement of you who have. I.e. that non-subscribers won't miss out on valuable advice. As subscribers (I'm sure I'll be a subscriber when I finished renovating our new apartment) we should be constantly aware that we don't have private forum discussions which should have been had in the open forum.

...that would be $15,000 in income, and just about cover the hosting and ISP costs for the site

Hi Paul,

Do you have any basis for the hosting and ISP-costs? Maybe the situation in Holland is different, but anyone who runs a site like CA and would have to pay a monthly fee of US$ 1,250 is being ripped off big time... But again, that is Holland!

Peter

A buck a week to help support this great site AND get some extra benefits and people are complaining? What do we talk about on this site? $5-10k DAC's and thousand dollar interconnects, right? It's entertainment and we pay for entertainment. For my part, I'm happy to pay for it as it gives me a great deal of information and enjoyment. Good for Chris. He should have done this a long time ago.

Jeff

A buck a week to help support this great site AND get some extra benefits and people are complaining? What do we talk about on this site? $5-10k DAC's and thousand dollar interconnects, right? It's entertainment and we pay for entertainment. For my part, I'm happy to pay for it as it gives me a great deal of information and enjoyment. Good for Chris. He should have done this a long time ago.

 

Jeff

Out of the mouth of Babes (referring to your relatively few posts but meant to be humorous) ;>]. Ah clarity!

Best,

Richard

Another member who is not convinced.

When I started looking at Computer Audio possibilities a couple of years ago I trawled the net to learn the basics before posing some questions here. The answers I got were valuable and very helpful. Computer Audiophile became my first stop for further education in this area. I'm probably now sufficiently well informed to appreciate the value of the site and hence pay a subscription but sure as eggs is eggs Computer Audiophile will no longer be a prime route for newbies to get into the subject, which is a sad loss.

David

Another member who is not convinced.

When I started looking at Computer Audio possibilities a couple of years ago I trawled the net to learn the basics before posing some questions here. The answers I got were valuable and very helpful. Computer Audiophile became my first stop for further education in this area. I'm probably now sufficiently well informed to appreciate the value of the site and hence pay a subscription but sure as eggs is eggs Computer Audiophile will no longer be a prime route for newbies to get into the subject, which is a sad loss.

David

How do you mean that statement? And what persuades you that newbies will not be able to use CA as you did?

Best,

Richard