Article: Embracing Immersive Audio

[Jud]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm happy to be next to the stage where the musicians are performing; actually going onto the stage, being in the middle of them, would be interesting - but I don't see it as being life changing.

 

This person has obviously not been lucky enough to sit on a stage 10 feet from a Van Cliburn winner, twice. Maybe not life changing, but "interesting" doesn't cover it at all.

 

Edit: Note the quote function makes it seem like Chris said this, but in fact he was quoting someone else.

 

 

[Jud]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:43 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

So many opinions from people with so little experience and knowledge in the area. 

 

Seriously.

 

This is like people objecting to offering more camera angles on a sporting event. Don't have those additional angles in 4K yet? So what, you will eventually as technology moves forward.

 

Day before yesterday only mp3s were being streamed. Yesterday it was Redbook. Today it's hi res.

 

Today lossy immersive is being streamed. Tomorrow.... And the day after that....

[Jud]

8 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

I thought Dave Was had me on speed dial or at least his Rolodex. 😎

 

Dave may, but I think it's Don you're looking for. 😉

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Dude, stop. 

 

The ignore list is very effective for me, though I can understand as the site owner you'd want to be aware of what folks are saying. Sorry about that.

[Jud]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

When the old guard started talking about computer audio and music servers, they used the same playbook.

 

Interesting and ironic that the guy who got me into computer digital audio and therefore this website was Mr. Analog himself, Michael Fremer. (He wrote a piece on how to use an Airport Express and Airplay to play music. I ran the output from an upstairs office computer through the Airport Express in the downstairs listening room to my ancient Theta Pro Basic DAC and was soon hooked.)

 

In fairness to @ARQuint, it should be said that while a good deal of the old guard's resistance to computer audio came from living through the "perfect sound forever" CD era and a resulting resistance to claims about digital technology, it seems as if Andrew's caveats come not from a resistance to immersive technology but a desire to have the media companies offer a higher quality immersive product. That (having a higher quality immersive product) is a goal I think we can all support, even while many enjoy this early stage of the journey.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Who does know?  Who cares?  They are judged by the results.  There has always been and always will be differences in talent and accomplishment among the engineers and studios and in what they can and choose to release.

 

I doubt they are paying much attention to us but that's OK because we are writing to tell our readers what is being offered to them. 

 

52 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

In a way I'm happy you guys are the way you are, because I like being different. 

 

If you don't know why a decision was made, why on Earth would you suggest is wasn't good one? Who does that serve other than yourself in the short run. It's the Minister of Information thinking. Plus, if you have no idea why, how can you attribute any differences to talent or accomplishments? It makes no sense. 

 

They are paying attention. I send them snippets and talk to them. I'm sure the guy who mixes albums that have collectively sold 100 million copies has no clue what he's doing, if the old guard says so 🙄

 

 

If I can presume to paraphrase what Chris is saying (tell me if I'm wrong): Saying "I prefer A to B, and here's why" is great, it's what interesting discussions come from. Saying "I prefer A to B because the guy who did B made worse decisions," without having talked to the guy who did B to learn what decisions he made and why, is to presume knowledge you don't have.

 

The other thing that comes to my mind is the human fondness for familiar patterns. Perhaps your concept of correct immersive audio was formed when you did a lot of listening to a previous technology. And therefore it's possible listening to immersive audio done with the next technology isn't going to feel right to you until you have a lot of experience with it. You may think it's because of a lossy format, but can you know that for certain?

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

what was there to be gained in the old Beatles albums

being reissued in Atmos from old mono or 2 channel tapes of which no stems ever existed

 

Comparing Now and Then from an old Lennon cassette vs. Real Love from an old Lennon cassette, I'd say the main thing to be gained from the old Beatles stuff is that the AI denoising process lets me hear the boys better. (I'm using the Lennon cassettes for comparison because I haven't had a chance to listen to the Red Album much, and because a cassette is about as low fidelity an analog source as I can think of.) I'm grateful for that. If they want to do immersive with the results also, I've got no problem with it, as long as the same degree of care is taken.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I have the SFSO Brant in a, get this, 40 channel WAV

 

You realize you've got @The Computer Audiophile thinking about how to wedge 28 more speakers into his listening space, right? 😉

[Jud]

23 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

But AI or no AI, I don't believe you can take a mono or simplistic ancient 2ch recording and turn it into something that realistically can be called a genuine immersive recording. 

 

It's kind of ironic that George Martin was an early and repeated advocate of the position that it was silly to expect a recording to be a faithful document of what happened in the studio. (He'd done a lot of pre-Beatles work on comedy records with sound effects, which of course depended on the listener believing in the reality of an artificial soundscape.) And of course the Beatles were allies in pushing the envelope of using studio effects to create artificial sound environments. So allowing listeners to immerse themselves in a synthetic soundscape might be just what the boys would have wanted. At least that's what the survivors and the representatives of George and John signed off on when they gave the go-ahead for the immersive versions to be done.

 

I personally will be listening with a 2 channel rig, because that's what I own.  But I look forward to hearing the immersive versions, because hey, it's the Beatles, and I'm going to enjoy them every way I can.