Article: Lossless TrueHD Atmos Just Got Much Easier

[ted_b]

? If I have my projector on I play Atmos directly via the ATV4K box (and onscreen GUI).  Not a mobile app (although I can do same, without projector, using my iPhone as remote).  I'm not sure, again, what you mean.  Sorry for being dense.

[El Guapo]

23 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I'm confused by this.  What can you do in Apple Music on the MAC?

Apple Music on macOS we can:

Atmos contents send to virtual interface like BlackHole 16ch or Merging's VAD for triggering DD+ decoder based on the speaker setup (from 5.1.2 to 9.1.6) in Audio MIDI Setup. Decoded multichannel PCM can send to DACs directly, pass-thru to recording software like Audacity, or send to convolution engine for DRC/DSP then output to the DACs.

 

I always send Apple Music Atmos to HQPlayer Embedded for DRC / upsampling to 12ch DSD256:

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, ted_b said:

? If I have my projector on I play Atmos directly via the ATV4K box (and onscreen GUI).  Not a mobile app (although I can do same, without projector, using my iPhone as remote).  I'm not sure, again, what you mean.  Sorry for being dense.

Apple Music is the only app for desktops that plays Atmos.

[ted_b]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Apple Music is the only app for desktops that plays Atmos.

I have no issue with Apple Music; I use it.  I am asking what is unique about it on the MAC platform.  @El Guapodescribed what he is doing, so I assume that this work flow is only available on the Apple Music app on MAC, not Apple Music on, say, Windows or elsewhere?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I have no issue with Apple Music; I use it.  I am asking what is unique about it on the MAC platform.  @El Guapodescribed what he is doing, so I assume that this work flow is only available on the Apple Music app on MAC, not Apple Music on, say, Windows or elsewhere?

 

Apple Music only plays Atmos on Mac. The new WIndows version of the app can see the Atmos content but can't play it. 

 

I route it through Hang Loose Convolver for 65,000 tap convolution, then on to my Merging DAC. 

[ted_b]

For those few examples that could be included in all four tiers, could you rate an Atmos mix from:

- compressed DD+ version on Apple Music

- upsampled above example, via Mac and work flow, to your DAC

- TrueHD version

- raw DXD version

 

I don't care, use a 1-100 rating.  Nothing serious here, but would be great to understand nuances vs striking differences. 🙂

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, ted_b said:

For those few examples that could be included in all four tiers, could you rate an Atmos mix from:

- compressed DD+ version on Apple Music

- upsampled above example, via Mac and work flow, to your DAC

- TrueHD version

- raw DXD version

 

I don't care, use a 1-100 rating.  Nothing serious here, but would be great to understand nuances vs striking differences. 🙂

 

Nothing comes closed to a DXD 12 channel album. I don’t think it’s all about the fact that it’s DXD, but the fact that it isn’t “encoded” is huge. There are no changes to the audio. 
 

TrueHD is still fantastic and better than DD+ of course. I’ve yet to run it through HQP though. Guapo can comment on that. 

[El Guapo]

6 hours ago, ted_b said:

For those few examples that could be included in all four tiers, could you rate an Atmos mix from:

- compressed DD+ version on Apple Music

- upsampled above example, via Mac and work flow, to your DAC

- TrueHD version

- raw DXD version

 

I don't care, use a 1-100 rating.  Nothing serious here, but would be great to understand nuances vs striking differences. 🙂

My 2-cent-level quick conclusions:

• DD+ Atmos on Apple Music or downloadable .mp4:
  • DRC off / upsampling off: 50
  • DRC on / upsampling off: 75
  • DRC on / upsampling on: 78
• TrueHD Atmos from Blu-ray or downloadable .mkv:
  • DRC off / upsampling off: 70
  • DRC on / upsampling off: 80
  • DRC on / upsampling on: 82
• Raw DXD
  • DRC off / upsampling off: 85
  • DRC on / upsampling off: 95
  • DRC on / upsampling on: 100

 

DRC is crucial especially for compressed contents. Will get very big improvement after done proper DRC.

[ted_b]

What DRC do you do, and where, HQP?

[El Guapo]

35 minutes ago, ted_b said:

What DRC do you do, and where, HQP?

I use Audiolense XO for producing mono wav FIR filters or .cfg+wav. Use HQPlayer's matrix pipelines mainly. Sometimes I watch TV app contents I use HLC for better lip-syncing.

[jrobbins50]

12 hours ago, El Guapo said:

I use Audiolense XO for producing mono wav FIR filters or .cfg+wav. Use HQPlayer's matrix pipelines mainly. Sometimes I watch TV app contents I use HLC for better lip-syncing.

You should share your HQP settings, as I know Jussi has offered his thoughts as to the best settings for lossy Atmos over Apple Music, @El Guapo!  
 

I put traditional discrete 5.1 MCH ahead of lossy Atmos and on par with TrueHD.  A good example for me is Rocket Man by Elton John. Whilst I admire the lossy Atmos mix, the 5.1 lossless DSD mix is very good and just sounds better to me. JCR 

[El Guapo]

12 hours ago, jrobbins50 said:

You should share your HQP settings

My HQPlayer settings for immersive contents (no specific settings for lossless or lossy):

• FIR filters: 64/352.8, 524K taps per channel, mono wav filters. Set bass management except main L, R. Total 21 pipelines so far. Will expand to 9.2.4 so it'll become 41 pipelines after get my 2nd DA8P (on order now 😁).
• HQPlayer's filter / modulator combo, first 2 combos must run on HQPe server which specced i9-12900K with 3080Ti GPU:
  • Best: 1x ext3 / Nx ext2 + ASDM5ECv2 -> 12ch DSD256. But hurts utility bill... consumes more than 600 watts of power (sustained).
  • 2nd best: 1x mqa/mp3-mp / Nx gauss-hires-mp + ASDM5EC -> 12ch DSD256. Roughly 400 watts sustained.
  • For everyday: 1x ext3 / Nx ext2 + NS1 -> 12ch DXD. This combo can run on my Mac mini m1 to save some energy. 😅

 

[Frans Keylard]

I have been using DVD Audio Extractor to rip Stereo/5.1/ATMOS tracks directly into my library. Looking at the cumbersome method(s) described above (with the MKV step) I am wondering if I did this wrong.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Frans Keylard said:

I have been using DVD Audio Extractor to rip Stereo/5.1/ATMOS tracks directly into my library. Looking at the cumbersome method(s) described above (with the MKV step) I am wondering if I did this wrong.

 

You’ve only got 8 channels. 

[jrobbins50]

18 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You’ve only got 8 channels. 

And I’m not sure that those eight channels correspond to Dolby Atmos 5.1.2. I made the same early mistake as well, thinking that such a rip would pull the Atmos metadata. I am nowadays believing that it does not, with DVDAE. JCR 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

And I’m not sure that those eight channels correspond to Dolby Atmos 5.1.2. I made the same early mistake as well, thinking that such a rip would pull the Atmos metadata. I am nowadays believing that it does not, with DVDAE. JCR 

If they do correspond to 5.1.2, it would be by miracle only. The extraction tool has no clue about the speaker layout, and the height channels are in metadata. the extraction is likely a 7.1 FLAC extraction. 

[192kbps]

When done, the files are tagged and renamed, and ready for one's favorite multichannel music playback application. 

 

Does JRIVER support 7.1.4?

How to set it? I have 29.0.87.

[Wine Doctor]

As I understand it, the computer using MMH has to have a Dolby Atmos converter also on the same computer.  How does one obtain the Dolby Atmos converter?  Dolby indicates that the will only license their decoding software to professionals.

Thanks.

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, Wine Doctor said:

As I understand it, the computer using MMH has to have a Dolby Atmos converter also on the same computer.  How does one obtain the Dolby Atmos converter?  Dolby indicates that the will only license their decoding software to professionals.

Thanks.

You need to purchase the Dolby Media Encoder, which includes the Reference Player. 

 

I purchased mine here - https://daleproaudio.com/products/dolby-media-encoder-client-processing-software-1-year-license

[AntPrad]

On 1/19/2023 at 5:22 PM, mlknez1 said:

What about http://cavern.sbence.hu/cavern/

 

 

As The Computer Audiophile says (thank you very much for all the interesting answers!), this product uses terms intelligently, but only supports lossy Dolby Digital Plus. It says “True Dolby Atmos with PC only” but unfortunately does not decode TrueHD.

On the other hand, Cavernize still allows you to convert MKV Atmos DDP files into ADM BWF files (for Audio Definition Model Broadcast Wave Format), which is wonderful for several reasons: ADM allows you to recover objects with the real-time parameters of the positioning of sources (X, Y, Z), to import it into computer music software such as Pro Tools, Nuendo, Logic Pro, or even Resolve Studio. Of course, whether in record music or cinema, the transition from the original ADM (maximum 128 object/discrete channels) to the flow processed by spatial coding (1 discrete channel for LFE and 15 object channels which merge the rest ) necessarily makes a lot of details disappear compared to ADM studio masters or DCP in cinemas.

However, as an Atmos music and audiovisual mixing teacher, I dream of the day when software like Cavernize will be able to do ADM with True HD and not just destructive Dobly Digital Plus. Being able to show the spatialization movements of sound to my students is very instructive and I hope to do it one day with optimal quality sound.