Article: An Audiophile And A Subwoofer | The Wilson Audio Lōkē

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, robocop said:

Over priced, ported, under sized driver and low powered. Doing yourself a massive disservice with this sub. You actually need two minimum and at least 12 inch drivers with 1000 watts or more and sealed. You could squeeze two JL Audio 12's in for this retail price. Anyway it is what it is, you didn't pay retail so it doesn't matter. Sub woofers are essential and always have been they improve the midrange and high frequencies. Sealed subs have always been cleaner sounding to my ears. Ported are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear!!!

Did you see the measurements in my room?

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 hours ago, Clement said:

Thanks for the review. I’m very interested in a pair of Loke, together with my Brinkmann pre and mono power amp, a pair of Sasha DAW AND a AV amp. 
The AV amp is bypassing the front channels to L and R of pre amp. 
My question is, after connecting the L and R Loke to the respective output from the preamp, can I still connect the LFE from the AV amp to the remaining input of the subwoofer (as there are 2, L and R, balanced or unbalanced inputs)?

 

Many thanks. 
Clement 

 

Hi Clement, both inputs are active, so unless your equipment actively determines the output, you will likely have a poor experience because LōKē would be getting a signal in both inputs.  Ideally, LōKē is either or, not both.

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, Mark Dirac said:

How do you pronounce "Lōkē"?

Like low key. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, mesonto said:

Just becasue you received those measurements doesn't mean that the other comment was incorrect. 

 

OK, let's go over the comment.

 

 

Quote

Over priced, ported, under sized driver and low powered. Doing yourself a massive disservice with this sub. You actually need two minimum and at least 12 inch drivers with 1000 watts or more and sealed.

 

There is no basis for these sentences. Why would I need that, if I'm getting bass down to 14Hz that's accurate? I'm open to all factual information.

 

 

Quote

You could squeeze two JL Audio 12's in for this retail price.

 

I'm uninsterested in squeezing more of anything just because more is seemingly better. Without the "why" I don't understand. I also don't believe I have the phase issues inherent in such a dual JL solution.

 

 

Quote

Anyway it is what it is, you didn't pay retail so it doesn't matter. Sub woofers are essential and always have been they improve the midrange and high frequencies.

 

What is meant by "they improve the midrange and high frequencies?" I don't understand this.

 

 

Quote

Sealed subs have always been cleaner sounding to my ears.

 

No problems at all. We all like what we like and only a fool would argue against one's subjective taste. 

 

 

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Ported are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear!!!

 

How so? What would a sealed enclosure get me in my system that I don't already have? Not looking for theory, but actual real details.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

18 minutes ago, mesonto said:

No problem, but you sound a bit intractable already:

 

"Over priced, ported, under sized driver and low powered." - absolutely for what it is,

"Doing yourself a massive disservice with this sub. You actually need two minimum and at least 12 inch drivers with 1000 watts or more and sealed." - 2 12 inch drivers would get you there as well, but sealed would get you there with no port huffing, no matter how it was designed.

"You could squeeze two JL Audio 12's in for this retail price." - absolutely true, and with dual woofers you will get more even coverage... just look this one up yourself. Even 4 will be better with less effort, but now we are trying to find room for them.

"Anyway it is what it is, you didn't pay retail so it doesn't matter. Sub woofers are essential and always have been they improve the midrange and high frequencies." - very true, allows your L&R to relax, your subs are now in their best supporting role.

"Sealed subs have always been cleaner sounding to my ears." Sealed subs are usually better for everyone's ears.

"Ported are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear!!!" - I get it but not worth defending.

 

Hey if you cannot hear the difference or most likely haven't experimentated enough I get it. You love your Loke, great for you. Cheers!

 

I hoped for actual information helping me and others understand why the initial comments were supposedly true. I don't see anything in your comments, other than it's true because I say it is.

 

At the listening position, I'm getting 14Hz bass that measures great. What is meant by "more even coverage?" Does this mean in other locations in the room, where I don't listen?

 

What is the benefit of "Even 4 will be better with less effort?" My single sub isn't overworked, and this is evidenced by both objective and subjective results. 

 

 

I have no clue what is meant by, "very true, allows your L&R to relax, your subs are now in their best supporting role." My left and right are objectively and subjectively reproducing audio as designed. What do you mean by relax? What would improve if the speakers were relaxed? The subwoofer reproduces the frequencies it's supposed to reproduce, just lke the left and right speakers. 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, mesonto said:

 

Again, I cannot fault you for not hearing other configurations, it is what it is. So if you are happy with it, and you have the money and you wish to stick to this brand, utterly fantastic!

 

But what the initial commenatator said is still valid. I believe what they were refering to "Over priced, ported, under sized driver..." was that the Loke is simply way overpriced for the value this woofer brings. Double the subs and you can expect less nulls from frequency interference in the room which will give you a larger listening area, and a sealed will most always exhibit tighter more layered less monotone "one note" sound.  And yes this is one over-priced sub for sure. A larger driver can generally push more air albeit not as quickly... is this the type of information you were looking for? It's pretty basic stuff.

 

But please feel free to experiment yourself, look things up, visit a showroom that you are familiar with, etc. 

 

As for the comment "I hoped for actual information helping me and others understand why the initial comments were supposedly true. I don't see anything in your comments, other than it's true because I say it is." -- don't be lazy, there are many papers and listening tests out there, easily at your fingertips. (I say this kindly as possible)

 

circulus in probando

 

Value is inherantly subjective. You're continued argument about value falls on deaf ears. 

 

I see we've moved on to less nulls rather than a relaxed loudspeaker. OK, that's useful. Can you show me where the nulls are in my system that "double the subs" would get rid of? The measurements are provided. 

 

It seems like you haven't seen the measurements of my system. Do you see loose, monotone, one note bass that could be improved by a sealed cabinet? 

 

Physics says a larger subwoofer can push more air. How much air is supposed to be pushed in my room? Is more always better? Can more just be more? Why would I want more air being pushed, if the sub I have measures and souds great?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I will also add to this discussion that my recent experience listening to Magnificat 10 channel DXD has lead me to believe a second subwoofer in my room would balance the sound of this bass because I believe I can localize the sound of my subwoofer on this album. The bass is accurate, but comes from the right side of the room, contrary to popular belief that low frequencies can be localized. I think a second subwoofer, on the left side, would provide this balance. I don't believe it would do anything to the actual frequencies heard in my room because it's all run through room correction. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I presume you've tried this with your eyes closed, just to be sure that's not influencing what you hear?

 

Technically no, but the subwoofer in my room isn't visible from the listening position, so this counts as blind in my book :~)

 

This would be good to do, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'd have to have someone move the sub and I'd guess where it was placed. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Though I know where my speakers are, strangely the location of the acoustic center seems to move when I close my eyes. So it could be as simple as that - does the bass seem to come from the same place with eyes open and eyes closed?

Wow, I've had the same thing happen with respect to the acoustic center and closing my eyes. Frequently in fact!

 

The bass localization is a tough one. I'm pretty sure I can pinpoint it, but I also can't get the sub's location out of my brain.

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, mesonto said:

The Computer Audiophile and Jud,

 

robocop's reply to the reviewer isn't about room specificifity. Your insistence on "what about Chris's room" with his comment is misplaced or woefully ignored. His comments were for the most part accurate and I do not seemingly understand your combined stubborness, to things like value, multiple subs, portless boxes or larger drives (albeit good ones) which can be further expanded into "one-note" bass, frequency nulls in a room, etc

 

Trying to assert your arguement by acknowledging that only Chris's room matters, and that I, nor anyone else has access to it is bizarre.

 

Even in your room, Robocop's assertions still stand, but admittedly will even do better in a less restrictive listening room, or one with more complications, as your room seems to be quite throughly planned out.

 

Anyway this is the last time I will respond, (it's seemingly pointless) but since this is your baby, I have to say your site site is wonderful!

It’s exactly this type of thinking that serves nobody. Generalities applied to specific situations equate to bad advice. 
 

Im very interested in taking my system to new levels. However, when someone tells me I need more because more is better, I tend to get suspicious. The person either has an agenda or really doesn’t know what he’s talking about or both. 
 

I this case you clearly dislike the price of the subwoofer. You’ve made that very very clear. You’re continued advice, based on general principles, doesn’t seem to apply to my space or at least it has yet to be shown how/why. I’ve asked several times, but received zero specifics. 
 

How will larger and more and cheaper subwoofers change the flat measured response of my room and help increase the accuracy of playback? That’s all I want to know. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Leo11 said:

But Wilson knows that HiFi enthusiasts know how to recognize a driver and an amp from Dayton Audio?

More precisely, 10" Reference line driver and SPA500DSP plate...

Wilson was forthcoming about its use of Dayton products in the LōKē when the product was released. No need for HiFi enthusiasts to discover or recognize anything. 
 

From the review:

 

“The app is supplied by Dayton Audio, which manufactures the amplifier used in the Lōkē. 

I talked to a couple Wilson Audio representatives about the use of Dayton Audio parts in the Lōkē. What I heard was 1. This amp is bulletproof and was unfazed by incredibly rigorous testing by the Wilson Audio Special Applications Engineering team and 2. If Wilson Audio built this amp in-house, in relatively low quantities, the cost of the Lōkē would've been far higher, without additional benefit to the customer.”

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, Leo11 said:

 

And how do they justify the price increase compared to components already available on the market for 1/10 of the price?

I haven’t asked that question to them, but if you consider companies such as Bryston have told me its products retail for roughly 8x the cost of parts, and the fact that the subwoofer enclosure is engineered far better than whatever enclosure is available off the shelf, the costs come more into focus. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, mesonto said:

To me this is a sad situation and detrimental to the audiophile scene when reviewers will stop at nothing to defend a brand name for a poor product release. 

I don't read other writers' reviews, but I hope this doesn't happen often. It's detrimental to everyone, including a manufacturer, when such a thing takes place. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

55 minutes ago, PeterG said:

One thing that drives me bonkers about subwoofer reviews is that reviewers rarely offer comparisons to other subwoofers.  Instead we hear that the addition of the subwoofer in question improved the sound vs no subwoofer.  To a person already sold on subwoofers in general, this is not helpful

It’s tough to write a review that’s all things to everyone (as I’m sure you understand). As someone who went without a sub forever, and even disliked them, I preferred to take the perspective of, wow, adding a sub can be revelatory and here’s what I tried and loved. 
 

It would be both enjoyable and helpful to write more about other subwoofers in other articles. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, mesonto said:

My old JL Audio's died but were great

 

Do you know anything further about the acquisition of JL Audio by Garmin? Direction of the company etc...?

 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/general/garmin-completes-acquisition-of-jl-audio/

 

 

22 minutes ago, mesonto said:

SIde Note: I will never buy a single subwoofer, I have heard the effect of dual subs and will never go back to a single. I have also heard 4 subs (all tuned to low levels of sound) and think that was the pinnacle of sound quality but not by enough over a similar 2 sub arrangement. 

 

This is likely my next move with subwoofers. I'll probably add another Loke on the opposite side of the room. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, mesonto said:

"Do you know anything further about the acquisition of JL Audio by Garmin? Direction of the company etc...?"

 

- no I do not, but I am wondering why this would be an good acquisition for Garmin, or at least this seems to be another move away from great home subs from JLAudio

Yeah, it's one of those strange acquisitions in my view. Perhaps Garmin wants to expand its footprint in its existing markets, by bringing more audio along with GPS etc... It doesn't seem like Garmin would be interested in continuing to innovate home subwoofers.