SACD (DSD) to external DAC

[um_yeah]

I don't get it .... here's what I don't get ... right here ...

Okay ... so like I thought a manuf could only pass DSD if they had purchased a license ... or something like that. I heard McGowan over at PS Audio claim that they could pass the full DSD data stream between their products because they had gotten permits from Sony (??).

Not sure ... but about that Oppo/Denafrips claim .... either it ain't true that they've got DSD -- the real McCoy-- transmittin' over the HDMI cable ... or that it very well is the real McCoy and it is an "illegal" (ub-liscenced) hack. Correct?

 

[MostlyGordon]

I ripped all my SACDs to DSD on a hacked PS3 years ago, they now play through most of my DACS (via Roon) and DAPs. Not sure about getting a DSD signal from an SACD player to a DAC. I don't think Toslink supports DSD, so your player would need a DSD DAC capable USB port.

[One and a half]

DSD can be transmitted over HDMI, the receiver and the sender can decode the others signal. 

This occurs with a now ancient SACD and AV receiver from Sony.

 

For my SACD and ISO , I use SACD EXTRACT, AuiConveter to end up with clickless DSF. I read the article from George and thought it interesting, but needs the specific hardware to work which I have to buy, so may as well stick with the current scheme.

[Norton]

As I understand it, there is a legal stop on DSD from SACD being output via SPDif but not via HDMI.  

 

Contrary to the impression perhaps given by the linked  article, there’s nothing particularly new about this.  For the last 5 years or so, it has been possible to use  an OPPO205 as a SACD (DSD) transport directly via HDMI (I.e. without any intermediate interfaces) into a Bryston BDA3 DAC, for example.  The OPPO even has a dedicated HDMI output for audio.
 

The real restriction is simply availability of other DACS which will accept DSD over HDMI.

 

Manufacturers can of course output SACD over proprietary links between their own transports and DACS (e.g. as Esoteric do) presumably with a license from Sony.
 

[Kal Rubinson]

3 hours ago, Norton said:

As I understand it, there is a legal stop on DSD from SACD being output via SPDif but not via HDMI.  

This is a part of the general proscription on transmitting DSD over links that lack the handshaking for copy protection.  HDMI since way back at version 1.2 has been capable of transmitting DSD if the connected device can assert that protection.  S/PDIF cannot (and I suspect is unable to) do that.  Of course, the ability to assert that protection entails licensing (and fees) to Sony.   

 

Other proprietary links, such as Esoteric and Accuphase, can meet the above requirements.

[firedog]

Kal-

I'm confused. A while back you reviewed this: https://www.stereophile.com/content/geerfab-audio-dbob-digital-breakout-box

doesn't that solve the problem for most folks? 

[botrytis]

The other issue with S/PDIF is it hasn't been updated since it first came out (which is Philips). There is no general consensus for updating it either. 

[musicjunkie917]

Sony and Philips….

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Kal-

I'm confused. A while back you reviewed this: https://www.stereophile.com/content/geerfab-audio-dbob-digital-breakout-box

doesn't that solve the problem for most folks? 

Yes and there is another more capable one now, the AudioPraise VanityPRO.  

https://audiopraise.com/projects/internal/vanitypro/

[um_yeah]

Folks ... we're gettin' off-track in this discussion. So can we pretty puhleeze (with suga' on top) get back to the orig. query? Thanks.

Okay .... so ummm.... someone just informed me that the Denafrips acknowledges a DSD stream on its selected input, of you feed it an Oppo SACD via that setup process. What's goin' on?

[um_yeah]

  

 

EDIT:

Um ... yeah ... so goin' back to the at AS article in which it says somethin' about the DSD led on the Venus lighting up. First, as owner of another Denafrips product (Ares II), that button/led/setup system is friggin' weird! But that said .... just 'cause a 'lil light tells ya it's doin' somethin' ain't indicatin' it's playin' ball. It might be it sees something LIKE  dsd ... or somethin' that ain't 16/44.1, etc -- that's the FLAG it's goin' by to light that luscious DSD everyone's Jonesin' for .

 

Also .... and this is VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY 'portant folks so pay attn:

The orig Sony white paper --- you know , the one in SACD Sony ads in all the mags in the late 90s --- told you exactly how they did it. And Ted Smith over at PSA has repeated this several times. The MAJORITY of the work is already done in  the DSD pdm code itself. The OPPO just reads the pdm code off the disc and it is pretty much "analog" from the get-go. All you need to do then is LP filter it. That was the basis of Ted Smith/ Sony SACD player project he posted many moons ago on on of the audio forums (AudioAsylum??/) https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/23/232389.html

So the most plausible reason why the Denafrips makes OPPO SACDs sound better is the analog output stage of he Dena . All the SabreDAC talk in ...

...really ain't got nothin' to do with it.

[Kal Rubinson]

15 hours ago, um_yeah said:

Not sure ... but about that Oppo/Denafrips claim .... either it ain't true that they've got DSD -- the real McCoy-- transmittin' over the HDMI cable ... or that it very well is the real McCoy and it is an "illegal" (ub-liscenced) hack. Correct?

 

3 hours ago, um_yeah said:

Okay .... so ummm.... someone just informed me that the Denafrips acknowledges a DSD stream on its selected input, of you feed it an Oppo SACD via that setup process. What's goin' on?

OK.  So where are these claim you refer to so that I can try to understand what the issue is?

[um_yeah]

4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

 

OK.  So where are these claim you refer to so that I can try to understand what the issue is?

Huh???? I've only like friggin' included direct click-able URL twice ... (psssst .... it's right here ... in the same house on Audiophilestyle street )....

BTW: Since you are a major player over at The 'Phile, y'all might wanna bring in Atkinson for some consulting .... now that guy is one smart cookie.

[Kal Rubinson]

5 minutes ago, um_yeah said:

Huh???? I've only like friggin' included direct click-able URL twice ... (psssst .... it's right here ... in the same house on Audiophilestyle street )....

Ah.  I did start to read that but quickly decided that it was not worth the effort for me.  It was posted on a day when I was distracted by other matters.  Also, it is not matter of concern to me.  Thanks, anyway.

[um_yeah]

I did do a little more "research" and, yes, it does seem that that Oppo/Denafrips hack is the THE REAL MCCOY. They probably got some cash-strapped teenage to hack it ... it has happened before ... remember DVD Jon? He get world famous for a while.