Forgive me Father.. aka confession of audio heretic..

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

Why do people think this is impossible? It's only sound waves, after all, and the microphones don't run and hide, when capturing the event in the cocert hall, etc. So, just reproduce what the microphones pick up - and it just falls into place ... 🙂

 

As I've said many times, what you get is that everything past the plane of the speakers is replaced by what's on the recording - so, as one example, you could be listening in a tiny room; "looking into" a massive space which could be literally a kilometer deep, if that is what the acoustics of the sound event was. It's not jarring to experience; the mind ignores the space you're listening in, and just takes in the 'projected' illusion.

 

If this doesn't happen for a recording you play, then it's because the accuracy of the playback chain you're hearing it through is not high enough - it's as simple as that ...

Because it is impossible to get live sound from ANY home audio system - period.

 

The Acoustics of the venue, where you sit, etc all affect the sound. One cannot model that and get the live sound. 

[botrytis]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Not IME ... when the system gets it right, then what emerges from the speaker driver surfaces has such a high integrity that what the room is like doesn't matter any more - hard surfaces, soft surfaces, windows, etc, become irrelevant; the illusion projected by the playback is so 'powerful', that it dominates the environment you're in.

 

This is not easy !!! My current setup is getting there, but still may take major surgery to finally break through to that standard - hopefully not needed; but I can't just wish it worked this well; the effort needs to be put into finding out where the bottlenecks are. I don't do room adjusting ... because this is just a form of masking, and will always fail under some circumstances.

 

Room acoustics are important unless you are listening nearfield. Your opinion goes against the basic laws of physics/audio.

 

Room treatments help to deal with nulls and reflections in the room. An accurate music system includes this. That is why many use DSP systems, which can adjust for reflections. 

 

If one does not deal with the room, one is ignoring the biggest part of the audio chain.  I have seen very expensive system sound like garbage in an untreated room.

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

Think of this situation: your home is literally attached to a concert hall, such that the room you're in is facing the musical action - and a wall is put in that room which aligns with the front of the speakers. On the other side of that wall the parts of the room there are completely removed, so it's now fully open to that performance space. Now, discard your speakers, and put two smallish, open doors in the just installed wall, which are in the same positions as those just removed speakers .

 

What do you think you would hear?

Sorry, Frank. Here is where your delusions don't match reality. 

 

First, one can NEVER reproduce a concert at home. The volume yes, the scale, the dynamics NO. That is where the difference happens. Also, is the fact that seeing an orchestra, an Opera, even a rock band is more visceral when seeing something live. An opera live is an experience, it is 3 dimensional the scope and the grandeur. One can NEVER get that at home.

 

 

[botrytis]

13 hours ago, Rexp said:

If an acoustic instrument is recorded in your listening room, you should be able to get close to reproducing it on your system, dontcha think? 

 

 

Actually, it will not sound the same. Microphones, the sq of the recording system, etc. all affect it. So no, I don't think it is possible.

[botrytis]

Loudest concert I was ever at, when I was young and foolish, was Tangerine Dream at the Riviera Theatre in Chicago. It was standing only. So, we were standing on a concrete floor and could feel the bass in the concrete that went up into our chests from the floor. It was loud and intense. My ears were ringing for days. After that I started taking ear plugs with me to concerts.

[botrytis]

@hopkinsI totally agree.

 

example - classical guitar. Here is a paper on mathematical modeling and measurements of Classical guitar.

 

 

6084230.pdf

[botrytis]

3 hours ago, Rexp said:

Er..I said sound close to the instrument, not the same as the instrument.

 

Then to me it is not literal reproduction of the what was heard.

 

That is why I say, live music can never be reproduced.

[botrytis]

12 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

Since every room is different - I never worry about accuracy.   Just enjoy your system in your room......

 

That is why treatments are important if you want a better sounding system.

[botrytis]

6 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

 

 

I thing I'd give away one of my spare interconnects for the privilege of being inside your head for 5 minutes.

Not sure I would like to stay there longer, though.. 

  

 

Don't go there. I don't think that is place any audiophile would want to be.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[botrytis]

9 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Bev literally said, 5 minutes ago, that she was extremely privileged to able to hear what the sound systems I work on produce - it's something like, "the proof's in the pudding" ... 😉

 

No great mysteries in any of this ... if you have a recording which one day sounded absolutely magical on some rig, is it because,

 

A) The system has so much expensive blinginess that it transformed the playback, by distorting what was on the recording - to make an ordinary recording sound much, much better than it actually is?

 

or

 

B) The recording is actually what's magical, and it just requires playback to have high enough integrity, to cleanly present what was captured?

 

Most people want to believe in A; I obviously believe in B - and if the latter is correct, then all it takes is the effort to create an accurate enough setup to do the job. In the world of audio, where people learn a whole set of rather bizarre beliefs, this doesn't tally ... QED, 🤪.

 

Good for you but not a reality, if based on what you have described as your system.

 

All nonsense there. 'Integrity' - WTH do you mean. 

 

All the flowery words mean absolutely nothing, bud. 

 

I think it is you that has the bizarre beliefs. 

 

What does all this have to do with the OP's OT?

 

Have fun and continue on.

[botrytis]

@sphinxsix https://pvspade.com/Sartre/cookbook.html

 

Makes me think of the way Frank is going about things.

 

😁

[botrytis]

3 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

 

A better sounding system or a better sounding room?   Chicken meet egg.

 

You listen to your system outside? If not, the room is a big part of the system.