HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[MikePid]

Success!  Not sure what I did, but the TeraDak LPS mod is working now on my MMM1.  Holy $#!+, I don't even need to do an A/B.  One of those proverbial veils has been lifted, maybe 2 of them.  Much more dynamics and clarity.  On one of my tough test tracks (Nils Lofgren's Bass and Drums Intro), I jumped because I almost thought the transients fried my speakers.  Percussion is amazing.  Vocals have better presence. Overall more space and detail and more to listen to.  Ooohh, and the bass!  I didn't think my speakers had it in them to do that.  MMM1-arvellous.

 

I'll let it burn in for a a couple of days and do some ear-conditioning, then switch back to compare before permanently installing it.

 

BTW, I had forgotten to connect the fan cable, and after a few minutes, the music had a drop-out, and I noticed that the temps were up into yellow zone, so I guess the fan is needed.

[MikePid]

13 hours ago, Louisiana said:

@MikePid

 

Now you have made me curious!

Can you close the Mac again properly after installation?

Next question:

Which power supply from Teradak is it exactly?

Google lists a lot of different ones...

Many greetings

Loui

Hi Loui,

 

I only did a temporary installation so far to make sure it worked, and also so that I could try to swap between power modules to compare.  I will probably put it back to the Apple power module on the weekend just to make sure that it is making the difference I am hearing, then I will permanently install the TeraDak power supply.  There should be no issue closing up the Mac after.  What you are seeing is the heart transplant in the middle of the operation 👨‍⚕️

 

I ordered the kit that @Schafheide found: https://kamaudio.com/TeraDak-Mac-mini-LPS which came with the internal module and a huge external 200W LPS.  The MMM1's maximum power draw is under 40W, so a smaller LPS would probably work too, but it is probably hard to find 12V with enough current.  There are not too many better LPSs that have enough power.  The 200w one is what TeraDak is recommending, likely because maybe they don't have a smaller one with enough power.  I see that they also have a 30W, but they probably figured it wouldn't be enough.  The 200W LPS is overkill, and it runs barely above room temperature.  But I didn't want to spend a ton of money on an external LPS until I knew for sure that an LPS would make a difference.  The MMM1 is so far upstream, and so I was skeptical at first.

 

Once I have time, I am going to try to swap in my Paul Hynes SR4T as a test to see whether there is still more room for improvement.  It is rated at 2A but 20A transient so it might have enough juice for a test, but I wouldn't want it running long term.  If there is enough improvement (and there likely will be 🤑), I will probably order an UpTone JS-2 and sell the TeraDak 200W.  

 

BTW, I never use stock power cords - I had a Shunyata Venom lying around that I am using on the external LPS.  I have no interest in putting a stock power cord on to compare, because I know power cords matter.  YMMV.

 

And the stock fuse will probably be replaced with SR Blue or Orange in the near future.  Cuz fuses matter too.  I wanted to see if the rabbit hole was worth going down before I went too far down, and it does look like it is a deep hole 🤑

 

In the meantime, I'm thoroughly enjoying the improved sound.  It seems like there is "more music" coming through.

[MikePid]

Yes, I've heard that the improvements made at the source make bigger differences.  I guess because of all the chatter going on inside MacOS and the hardware, I was not confident that just cleaner power was going to overcome that.  Besides, bits are bits, right? 🤣.  It will be interesting to see whether someday we will be able to run HQPlayer on Apple silicon without MacOS.  The tight integration of the hardware architecture should help reduce latencies.

 

And, yes, I enjoy my nice phono front-end, including MC cartridge, plus numerous audiophile and Japanese pressings too 😁.  I have a split audiophile personality between analog and digital. 

[MikePid]

21 hours ago, Schafheide said:

BTW - shouldn't all of this be in the TeraDak MMM1 kit thread?

Just asking 😪

I'll create a new MMM1 LPS thread when I get a chance 🙂

[MikePid]

My MMM1 LPS upgrade is complete!  I was going to start a new thread, but I think I can cover the rest here.

 

Prior to permanently installing the Teradak power module, I switched back to the Apple power module to do some informal measurements and to reset my baseline sound.  

1. Using my iPad to do some SPL measurements, there did not appear to be any difference when using either power supply.  I had a perception of increased volume initially with the LPS, but I think it is due to more powerful dynamics and presence.  The power meter on my amp was not showing any difference either.

2. No contest regarding sound quality.  As stated before, in my system the LPS sound is more open and 3D, with wider soundstage.  I feel like I am inside the music and can move around in it compared with the Apple power module.  Transients are shockingly realistic. Overall, more detail, cleaner, really tight bass (e.g. The Album Leaf's Sucking Chest Wound or Tool's Chocolate Chip Trip), well-defined piano, and amazing vocals (e.g. Eva Cassidy's Nightbird).  Everything just sounds better as does any kind of music.

 

For me, this is a no-brainer upgrade for the price.  It takes things up to the next level.  I was skeptical at first being just digital processing, but I guess I shouldn't have been.  I have nice LPSs on my other all-digital devices: EtherREGEN (network switch) and ultraRendu (NAA).  I have no idea why better power helps in the digital domain, but I guess for the same reason better cables help.

 

My next project is to try feeding the MMM1 with my PH-SR4T to see how much difference an even better LPS might make.  But I need to let this uptick in sound quality settle in my ears. Even after listening for a week or so, I it is still amazing me.

 

Three things to watch out for with the install:

1. get the right tools:  Torx TR6 (security version with a centre hole) and T10.  I bought an iFixit kit which was perfect, and the magnetic bit holder is a must for handling the tiny screws.

2. the power harness to the motherboard is soft, so you need to be careful to insert it straight so it doesn't get damaged or bend pins (like happened to me).  The Apple connector is hard plastic and much easier to take out and insert.  The cable bundle is also thicker so it takes a big of effort to squeeze it into the plastic channel.

3. my DC cable is finicky on the 5.5mm end.  I had multiple problems that I thought were because of internal connections not tight, and it took me several attempts including switching back to the Apple power module to make sure I hadn't damaged anything.  In the end, I think all of my problems with not booting were because the DC cable was not seated well where it plugs into the MMM1.  Even now, if I disturb the DC cable, the MMM1 shuts off.  I put some De-oxit Gold on which helped, but still not a secure connection even though it is a tight fit.  I'll  troubleshoot further to see if it is the jack or the plug when I try my PH-SR4T. 

 

Thanks to @Schafheide for bringing this LPS kit https://kamaudio.com/TeraDak-Mac-mini-LPS to my attention!

 

The link I posted earlier to the MMM1 tear-down https://youtu.be/R4ArjHz4gd4 was immensely helpful for me.  Here are a couple more pictures with the LPS module being installed.  Earlier photos of the open-heart bypass surgery are 11 days back in this thread https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/61312-hqplayer-4-and-mac-mini-m1/?do=findComment&comment=117629 .

 

 

[MikePid]

7 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Lurking thought however that a significantly better arm mm (for HQP) might turn up in the next year.

Yep, and the next year after that there will be a better arm MM.  It is a never-ending chase 🤣.  From your sig, it looks like you already have the MMM1.  When MMM2 comes out, you can always put the old power module back in to the MMM1 and sell it, or sell it with the LPS on your local audio mart, and recover some of your costs in a year. 

 

For me, I only needed to go up to DSD256 (because the highest my DAC accepts), so MMM1 was sufficient for me.  Plus, my hearing ain't gettin' any better, so I would rather listen to the improvements now while I can still notice them 🤣.  If nothing else, you'll enjoy a year of better music, so is that worth US$300 to you to add the LPS?

 

It is hard to compare how much adding the LPS compares with going up to DSD512 instead.  Probably not as much as from DSD128 to DSD256, but some say that DSD256 to DSD512 is not as big of a jump in improvement anyway.  For me, the LPS was probably comparable to going from regular ASDM to ASDMEC or maybe 2 jumps to EC2.  I think of it as like having EC3 right now 😁

 

My digital path up to the DAC is almost the same as yours including etherREGEN, ultraRendu (both with nice LPSs) plus ghent CAT8 jssg360 cables.  My power is very clean too.  So I would expect that you could expect comparable improvement.  Of course, YMMV.

[MikePid]

Hi @SKR,

 

I can confirm that Mac Mini M1 8GB 256 SSD comfortably handles DSD256/ASDM7ECv with poly-sinc-gauss-xla (for 1x and poly-sinc-gauss-long for Nx) as long as that is all that is running on it.  

 

Miska has done a tremendous job optimizing HQPlayer to run on the M1 chip!

[MikePid]

I have found that 8GB is more than enough right now.  HQPlayer seems to take less than 500MB, and overall memory usage is under 5GB, and no swap used.  DSD256/7ECv2/xla for 1x.  No other apps running though.  Certainly 16GB would provide future-proofing if you want to spend the extra cash, but not a must in my experience. 

[MikePid]

Here is the link from the other thread showing my memory usage:  https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/page/942/#elControls_1177414_menu .  I haven't seen it vary much from that.

 

I recommend turning all the Apple stuff off.  iCloud, Siri, Spotlight, etc.  I have the MMM1 configured as a headless "appliance", similar to something like an ultraRendu, rather than as a general-purpose computer.  I see from your reply in the other thread you have 1Password, Notification Center, CleanMyMac and other stuff.  Although that shouldn't affect the memory footprint for HQPlayer.  If you turn off all those other apps, even a 4GB HQPlayer should fit in 8GB.

 

I am streaming Tidal (from Roon) to ultraRendu NAA.  Miska replied that size of streaming files might make a difference.  I just queued up a 40min JMJ continuous mix track, and HQP memory size increased by less that 5%, and dropped back down when I skipped to the next track.  If you restart HQP, what is the initial memory usage before you play anything?  Mine is 64MB, and when I start playing it goes back to the same value as before I quit HQP, so there is no memory leak.

[MikePid]

I just tried adding some matrix and pipeline stuff and it didn't make any difference.  Are you doing convolution stuff maybe?

[MikePid]

I thought perhaps the HQP client might be a factor, but I just started it up and it didn't make a difference (other than add another process).

 

Not sure why @AudioDoctor needs 10x the memory for HQP. 🤷‍♂️  Seems to be same number of ports (no idea if that makes a difference), but twice the threads as me.  Even your HQP client is taking 5x more (although I am not actually using it nor had it been running for more than a minute).  So far, there is at least one other person reporting comparable memory usage like me (Louisiana).  Others can chime in and report their memory numbers.

 

Maybe a long shot, but how about killing everything else that HQP doesn't need, to see if all the swapping and memory management is somehow contributing to this?  I'm running the MMM1 as a dedicated HQP machine.  Other than screen sharing, there isn't much else going on.  Cobwebs forming in part of my RAM 😉

 

[MikePid]

Ahh, that's more like it!  I've never used PCM output on my MMM1.

[MikePid]

I just ran a test and 96k>44x256 uses only about 5% more memory than 44k source on my MMM1.  Filter is slightly different (gauss-long for Nx vs xla for 1x). I also tried DSD128>DSD256 and that finally shows more memory: 1.1GB vs. 0.3GB.  DSD64>DSD256 is 850MB.  All with 7ECv2.  No convolution though.

 

Interestingly, memory use switching back to 44k>44x256 after DSD>DSD didn't free up all the memory, and is now using 100MB more than it normally does, but still only just over 400MB.

[MikePid]

31 minutes ago, SKR said:

Hi Louisiana,

as per your advice I got the Mac Mini M1  yesterday. Also I paid and purchased HQPlayer 4 Desktop by using coupon code ( as I was using HQP 3 in past).

I got a mail giving me License Key which looks very peculiar.

Now I need your help to get it registered on my M1.

I have already downloaded the HQPlayer from their website.

When I go to HELP — REGISTER than I don’t find any window for putting the License key.

please help me out to start using HQP

thanks

Not Louisiana, but look at section 10 of the HQPlayer manual.  The registration is a file, not just a number.  Save the file attached to the email.

 

After purchasing a license key file will be provided. Store this file in a safe place. This file can be installed by selecting “Register...” from the “Help” menu. Standard file open dialog will appear asking to locate and select the license key file. Once the license key file has been successfully installed, restart HQPlayer for the license to fully take effect.

 

Congratulations on joining the MMM1 club!

[MikePid]

Here is a summary of the exciting journey I have been on since I loaded HQPlayer onto my newly purchased MMM1 at the beginning of June. 

- Back then, I was able to do 44k>DSD256/5EC and ext2 for 1x, which seemed like the holy grail

- Then I switched from ext2 to poly-sinc-gauss-xla (1x) - OMG!

- Then ECv2 came along, and even though I had to drop down to poly-sinc-guass-long for 1x, it was worth it - OMG!

- Then Jussi did some optimizations and 44k>DSD256/ECv2/xla for 1x was enabled - OMG!

- Then @Schafheide sent me down the rabbit hole making me aware of a TeraDak LPS kit for the MMM1, so took a chance on it - OMG!

- Then I swapped out the LPS's stock fuse with an old HiFi Tuning Gold I picked up for something else a couple of years ago for $10 - OMG!

- Based on the positive results with that fuse, I sprung for a new Orange fuse - OMG!  And the fuse has only been burning in for 24 hours so far.

 

The MMM1 with LPS and Orange fuse makes @Miska's amazing work really shine!  Listening to the music has never been more enjoyable! 😃

[MikePid]

My DAC doesn't like 48k so I'm 44x256 for output.  I don't have any 48k source.  For Nx, I use gauss-long, and that handles 96k source easily, even with the rate conversion.

[MikePid]

With the release of HQP 4.17 (and now 4.17.1 - hard to keep up with Jussi!), there are lots of spare CPU cycles just sitting idle while comfortably doing 44>DSD256/ECv2/xla (1x, and guass-hires for Nx).  Something I never expected!  So I wanted to see if the MMM1 could handle running HQP and Roon together.  I have been running Roon Core on my 2012 rMBP for years, but it meant I had to leave my laptop open and awake while listening to music.  A while ago I had started to shop for a NUC for Roon, to possibly run ROCK on it, but I back-burnered that while I went down the MMM1 LPS rabbit hole 🐇.

 

It took me all of about 15 minutes to move Roon Core over to the MMM1 (drag and dropping a fresh backup and my limited local music files (about 20GB) to get it up and running.  Easier than I expected!

 

Then I hit the Play button and watched Activity Monitor with my fingers crossed.  No sweat - the MMM1 hardly noticed that Roon was running (even under Rosetta)!  Roon is a pig with memory, taking over 3GB (maybe due to the Rosetta wrapper?), but total memory usage is under 6GB, so my 8GB MMM1 is handling it well.  No swapping either.

 

I haven't had much of a chance yet to do much critical listening but my initial impression is that it does sound better.  Seems to be more front-back space, and more detail. Maybe just my imagination, but another proverbial veil lifted.  (How many veils are there anyway??? 🤣)

 

I know that generally people recommend running Roon and HQP on different machines, but for me running them both on the same machine simplifies my system.  It means Roon is sending stuff directly to HQP rather than doing a 2-hop round-trip across a BJC Cat6 cable to my SPMS-powered laptop (and also means I can now run my laptop on wifi and not have a dongle hanging out the side with an ethernet cable attached to it).  Plus it means that Roon is running on a machine that is powered by an LPS with an Orange fuse at no extra cost.  So no Roon NUC is needed now!  Maybe a ROCK-based NUC could improve sound, but not sure the improvement would offset the overhead of additional ethernet traffic.  I'd probably be better off putting all that money into a better LPS (I would have put an LPS on a NUC anyway).

 

Thanks @Miska for another surprise gift! 🎁

[MikePid]

Thanks Jussi.  Is there way in MacOS to set background priority?  I think "nice" just sets the process priority.

[MikePid]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

In Roon settings you can make those changes:

 

Ahh, the setting is in Roon rather than MacOS.  Thanks!  It looks like my defaults settings were Throttled and Fast, so changed the second one to Throttled too.

 

44>DSD256/ECv2/xla plus Roon is only about 50% CPU (performance cores about 75% each), so still lots of spare horsepower on the MMM1!  Unbelievable 😃

[MikePid]

54 minutes ago, bobflood said:

I cannot get PS Gauss XLA on my MMM1, but I can get PS Gauss Long with all formats going to DSD256/ASDM7EC.

gauss-hires works fine for me on 24/192.  A bit more CPU usage than 44/xla but not much more.  I set xla for 1X and hires for Nx.  Still playing with which hires I like best - they all sound great!

[MikePid]

DSD64>DSD256 with XFi and ECv2 takes less CPU than PCM>DSD256.

[MikePid]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:14 AM, rah50 said:

Hi All:

 

First post to this thread. I bought an MMM1 off eBay this weekend and it's on its way. I was going to wait for the new versions this spring but not being able to run past HQP v4.14 on my old server and with Roon killing my system with it's upgrade I thought I should go ahead.

 

I've read the entire thread and have to thank everyone for the learning experience, especially MikePid. I've never used a Mac but I'm sure it will be a fun and I'll have a few questions for sure.

 

I'm also lucky to have a spare HDPlex 100 laying around, so the Teradak ps upgrade is going to happen!

 

Bob

Hi Bob, welcome to the MMM1 club!

 

Back on page 6 I posted my setup steps, in case you find that helpful:  https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/61312-hqplayer-4-and-mac-mini-m1/?do=findComment&comment=1169187

 

I am successfully running Roon on the MMM1 alongside Jussi's most awesome settings, and probably getting better sound because Roon is benefiting from the LPS (and Orange fuse) plus direct access to HQPlayer rather than through an Ethernet cable.

 

I run headless, but have Screen Sharing set up to my Mac laptop.  But mostly I use the iPad to control playing. I set up the MMM1 with its own password with auto-boot and auto logon and isolated it from the cloud so that if someone steals it, they don't have access to anything other than my Roon account and HQPlayer.  Basically, I treat it as a music server appliance rather than a computer.

 

If you already have the HDPlex, then you just need the power module from TeraDak.  I bought the kit with their LPS from Kam Audio.

 

Good luck with your cataract procedure.  I wish there was something like that to fix our aging ears!

 

[MikePid]

If you go to Activity Monitor, there are options under the Window menu for CPU usage to see the load on each of the cores.

 

For the hissing, I have an ESS9038Pro too, and it doesn't like 48K base rate, so try 44x256 for bit rate limit rather than 48x256.

 

Mike

[MikePid]

4 hours ago, rah50 said:

Current problem is MMM1 goes into screen saver mode and I can't regain control without a reboot. I've turned Screen Saver off, so I don't know what's going on? Thoughts?

Here are my settings:

[MikePid]

I doubt the hard disk sleep setting is the culprit. I was actually surprised to see it that setting turned on in my system.  It's an SSD, so not sure why it is there at all.  How do you put an SSD to sleep?  I'll bet that setting does absolutely nothing if you only have SSDs.