Audiophiles: Dead or Dying?

[Albrecht]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:13 AM, GUTB said:

So, the state of the audiophile "hobby". Essentially all mainstream and mid-market products marketed towards the "audiophile" are trash. Chip amps, class-D, switching wall wart supply consumer shovelware garbage. No one cares about speakers, everything are cheap mass-produced headphones and IEMs. The resurgence of records ended up just being a lifestyle ornament. The pursuit of quality audio seems to be strictly relegated to retirees spending their savings and using up their credit on boutique manufacturers who still make audiophile grade equipment. Have you tried to educate modern "audiophiles" about the hobby? They don't want to hear it. In fact they just don't care about high-quality audio, it's mostly just a lifestyle accessory to them.

 

Is there absolutely nothing to be done about it? Do we just have to accept most people don't care enough about quality audio to support a mass audiophile market? Do we just have to accept audiophile equipment competes for yacht and RV money?

Cool that you're expressing your opinion.... as so much is based on one's experiences.

 

If all you have to go on is Denon mini-systems. A mid-fi NAD system based system will open up your eyes.... Forget about something like LAMM. In these times, for many reasons: not withstanding the oppression and robbing of the wealth of the middle/lower classes, - both listening to music for it's own sake, and gettting higher performance equipment has become "un-obtanium"

Who can deny that the high performance audio "market," - is dying?

I think that one of the bigger mistakes is that people mis-apply digital file playback, - thinking that they are going to get "better" playback for less money. This is disproven significantly when proper testing occurs....

[Albrecht]

12 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

As I said already, I'm not talking about this kind of streaming and neither are the folks in Rajiv's thread you keep mentioning. 

 

They are typically streaming their own music from a NAS unit attached to their own network although they may also use streaming services as well as another source of music.

 

I would very surprised if any serious audiophiles use streaming services as their primary source for music.

FWIW  (just an opinion)

I NEVER use the word "streaming" to describe LAN, digital file playback, - even though, - technically, - i would concede that "LAN streaming" should probably be use.

 

IME, - (depending on the system), - streaming from the Internet sounds worse, - and it supports the Netflix model, - which is not good. 

 

When someone uses the word "streaming" i immediately think of Tidal, Roon, and MQA,  and Comcast....

[Albrecht]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:43 AM, firedog said:

I think your statement is 100% wrong. There's quality equipment of all types in the $200-$3000 range that is great sounding and well made. Including speakers. Hell, you can get great results using a Raspberry Pi as a streamer and that's less than $100. Even $50.

I can get a much better system today for less money (inflation adjusted) than when I bought my first system in the 70's, and the first "audiophile" one in 1981.

It's true that most people don't care about quality audio- it's also true that most people never did. It was more popular to have a decent setup in the pre mp3 days, but most people did it more for status than true love of sound. I can remember lots of pretty good speakers that cost significant money placed in such a way that they couldn't sound good - for convenience and lifestyle. Some things never change.

IMO, - you need some more experience with better performing equipment.

 

A Razberri Pi may deliver "great results" compared to a lo-fi $300 POS Sony. But that's not the subject of discussion. The point is, is how the Razberri Pi compares to a Lumin, DCS NB, or Sig Rendu. The former does not belong in a $30,000 type retail system and will sound significantly worse. (Unless, [as several trolls have done here], samabotaged an high performing system in the name of pseudo science. 

 

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Nonsense. Only $30000 retail counts as hi fi? And that's exactly the problem with audiophilia: an item like a Pi being dismissed because it doesn't perform like some piece selling for multiple thousands of dollars. And your supposed Sony piece also probably also isn't "lo-fi". Both will produce actual hi-fi-when it's defined as ultra low distortion, low jitter, etc. Of course, if you have no definitions, and restrict hi-fi to hand waving descriptions of the sound of "hi fi" based only on sighted listening, you can dismiss anything. 

 

IMO, you need more experience listening to equipment under unsighted conditions. I bet you and many other audiophiles would fail to differentiate or pick out the the so called "lo-fi", "mid-fi", and some much more expensive pieces in many cases if you did unsighted comparisons: sources, DACs, and amps. It's easy to convince yourself you have golden ears under sighted listening conditions.

 

And I'm not saying everything sounds the same. I am saying that audiophiles both hear non-existent differences when using sighted listening, and also exaggerate very small differences into something that "totally changes the sound" they are hearing. That's what sighted listening does. It's been demonstrated multiple times. For whatever reason, many audiophiles are unwilling to test this for themselves. 

Nope... I was using an example and analogy to illustrate there is a context.

 

Making assumptions about how equipment and systems are evaluated via sighted vs un-sighted is silly as they are just that... 

No need to repeat ground already covered here, but please don't skip over the significant importance of piling up many comparative experiences. 

 

A Razberri Pi only sucks compared to an signature Rendu if you apply both equally and correctly. And it doesn't mean that both don't "sound good," - it's just that one sounds dramatically better than the other in the correct context. Just as 10Gauge lamp cord as speaker cable is inappropriate for LAMM/Kharma systems, - so is a Razberri Pi, and it certainly doesn't take any rigorous or (foolish) blind testing measures to hear/know this obviousness.....

 

(By the way, - I've done the tests comparing 3 different Rendus, and a Pi in my system, - and although the Pi performed well, - it's not a hi-fi piece of kit that is up to those "average" performance/price level systems that constitute the typical Stereophile polled average system hi-fi price-point).

[Albrecht]

28 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Why ? 

 

 

I neither said or implied anything like that.

 You appear to be conducting a vendetta against  "golden ear" audiophiles and more expensive Audiophile products to justify your own choices, and apparently believe that non sighted listening .will show that there is very little value (if any) in paying any more for audio than your typical budget,

 

Very true...

 

And for the upteenthtime... "golden-ear" audiophiles don't exist. To assert such is a Trump-like, straw-man, lie....

 

[Albrecht]

13 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

Oh no, not Maslov!  The audiophile world certainly does not need any more pseudoscience.

Agreed, - the amount of pseudo-science generated by the anti-audiophile "preachers" on this site is INSANE...

[Albrecht]

15 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Out of interest do you have figures on stereophile average system hi-fi price point? Earlier in the thread I posted what Audiophile Style members spend. At that time, two years ago, it was still Computer Audiophile so I suspect that the results were skewed downwards and not upwards. Nonetheless, the results show that 50% of members spend upwards of $20,000.

You have to go by retail cost. in the late 2000s, - average system was 20K. Might not be such a great figure, as both really expensive, and really cheap system skew the results.

 

Certainly prices have gone up as more manufacturers go out of business, and reduce their trickle down too. Costs go up when the parts that encompass the components become unavailable. Exceptions of course, - as items like FPGA chips in digital are "cheaper" in comparison to NOS 1962 tubes.

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

I agree.

 

Pseudo-science should only be used by those selling high-end equipment to audiophiles.

Naw....

 

That market is already cornered by the measurers

[Albrecht]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Really? The marketing materials of high-end audio manufacturers seems to be a measurement-free zone, in my experience...

Whatever... Marketing is not scientific investigation/evaluation. What kind of measurements are in Lexus marketing hyperbole...? The marketing and "selling" by the "skeptics" who "straw-man" the equipment are the REAL problem. 

 

[Albrecht]

2 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

Maybe for you. My self-esteem isn't as fragile as yours appears to be. 👺

 

Not about me, but I see that isn't stopping you ....

[Albrecht]

15 hours ago, lucretius said:

Don't let all that energy go to waste. 😀

 

Don't worry, - not spending any: unlike some, - I am not here to attack audiophiles (on an audiophile website), - and call them stupid.....

 

Now that shit is the REAL wasted energy...

 

 

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, kumakuma said:

 

You need to report those folks to Chris. He has zero tolerance for that kind of name calling.

No, - I don't, - I'll just respond to their posts. 

[Albrecht]

9 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Thank you for your service...

no no no no no no, - THANK YOU for yours!!