Topping D90 great but question future

[ambre]

4 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

No disrespect to anyone enjoying their D90's, but after 4 weeks I think I've reached the end of the line with mine.  We've had our good times, and I can see how she would appeal to many.  But I'm not feeling it.

 

Before I pack her up....I'd love to hear any mitigating factors. I've probably put around 120 playing hours on my D90.  Could I expect any further changes in the future? She's definitely mellowed since new, but still has a slightly irritating voice.  I do use the standard USB cord and, of course, the basic fuse. 

 

@Barrows was right about DSD - even 128.  Amazingly wide soundstage and detail.  But I'd question whether it's a pleasing DAC to live with over the long term - there just has to be more refinement out there, without spending silly money. Maybe I'll try an NOS model, such as the Orchid or Troubadour.

With HqPlayer and Ec filters for Dsd 256 / 512 In combination with a powerful pc / imac will give a dramatic jump with thé Topping 90.

 

A realy Top Dac the same as Barrows said. A bargain.
 

 

[OldBigEars]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

With HqPlayer and Ec filters for Dsd 256 / 512 In combination with a powerful pc / imac will give a dramatic jump with thé Topping 90.

 

A realy Top Dac the same as Barrows said. A bargain.
 

 

 

I've used DSD 256 with Roon quite a lot.  My STi5 ran slightly hot but I could certainly hear an audible difference.  HqP with Ec filters - maybe that was the missing ingredient...?

 

As with all things hifi, system blend is key.  There are aspects about the Topping D90 I appreciate - on the one hand it delivers lots of information, but it's tone of voice through my equipment lacked body and soul.  Hard things to measure.

 

[ambre]

Roon does’t  equals by far...,,.. HQPlayer4.x imo.
 

Besides the Eq filters there are many other  very nice variants too. Especially in terms of transcients and stage.
 

But you have to replace yr computer first to unlock the REAL potential of Hq player.
 

Besides that I use Allo Usbridge Signature incl. Uptone ISO Regen to clean the signal path and ‘reclock’ the usb signal.

And the Uptone etherRegen which feeds the Allo. That makes anorher lot of differences to my Old ears resp. System.
 

Very best regards,Andreas

 

 

[OldBigEars]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

Roon does’t  equals by far...,,.. HQPlayer4.x imo.
 

Besides the Eq filters there are many other  very nice variants too. Especially in terms of transcients and stage.
 

But you have to replace yr computer first to unlock the REAL potential of Hq player.
 

Besides that I use Allo Usbridge Signature incl. Uptone ISO Regen to clean the signal path and ‘reclock’ the usb signal.

And the Uptone etherRegen which feeds the Allo. That makes anorher lot of differences to my Old ears resp. System.
 

Very best regards,Andreas

 

 

 

I've been seriously thinking about the EtherRegen and/or upgrading my mR 1.4 to oR.  That could probably help.

 

I'm not going to spring for a new computer + HqR license at this point.

 

Thanks for ideas.

[ambre]

39 minutes ago, OldBigEars said:

 

I've been seriously thinking about the EtherRegen and/or upgrading my mR 1.4 to oR.  That could probably help.

 

 

Uptone Etherregen highly recommended.

ultra rendu + fiber+ EtherRegen is also top notch.🤓

 

[jkenton]

Dip switch settings for Singxer SU-6 to run I2S on Topping D-90?

 

Does anyone know if they conform to PS Audio, Audio-GD, Matrix, Ho;o Audio, Gustard, L.K.S. or W4S?

Thanks

 

[barrows]

10 minutes ago, jkenton said:

Dip switch settings for Singxer SU-6 to run I2S on Topping D-90?

 

Does anyone know if they conform to PS Audio, Audio-GD, Matrix, Ho;o Audio, Gustard, L.K.S. or W4S?

Thanks

 

The D-90 I2S input is configurable for different I2S set ups, so one should be able to make any configuration work.  But I would recommend the USB input over the I2S, as it is asynchronous and uses only the D-90's onboard clocks, which are quite good.  Of course one should experiment with this in their own system.

[bipet]

I am looking at a second D90, to sit on my desk in addition to my main listening space. However, to sit on my desk I would probably have to switch the Pre-amp back on to use the volume control. I would need to connect to the DAC via USB (for Roon) and via optical (for PC use).

 

I run Roon with a USBridge Sig into the Topping and then out, via XLR, to some Adam F5 monitors. Whereas in my main set-up I use HQ Player, I will use Roon to upsample to DS256.

 

I can't seem to find another option that works. I need any setting to be fairly close, in terms of volume level, between the USB and optical connections as this is a family computer.

 

If I feed the DAC DSD 256 via Roon, but have the pre-amp enabled, will the DAC be in only DSD mode?

[bogi]

From you description here as well as on ASR it I don't get why do you need a 2nd DAC, when your issue is to match volume level between 2 DAC inputs. I am assuming you are playing through those Adam monitors from both your main set-up (HQPlayer upsampling) and desk setup (Roon upsampling). What for advantage would bring you 2nd DAC? Second USB input? How do you want to connect 2 DACs to the same Adam monitors? Could you describe your main setup and your desk setup chain in the form like (my guessing):

Roon on computer A -> HQPlayer upsampling to DSD256 on computer B -> USBridge Sig as HQPlayer NAA -> Topping D90 connected by USB

If you would describe both your main and desk set-ups this way then maybe someone could write a reasonable answer.

 

I will base my answer strictly on the following:

 

On 11/4/2020 at 4:34 PM, rossco said:

I need any setting to be fairly close, in terms of volume level, between the USB and optical connections

 

Among software players only HQPlayer is able to perform digital volume control with DSD content. If one of the DAC inputs doesn't allow digital volume control, then the way to match levels of 2 DAC inputs while retaining direct DSD mode is:

1. Switch preamp mode to DAC mode of D90 to allow direct DSD

2. Switch the DAC input to source where you are upsampling by Roon (I don't know if that is optical or USB).

3. Adjust analog volume on your Adam monitors to suit for Roon when you upsample to DSD256 in Roon and leave it so

4. Then, switch the DAC input to the source where you are upsampling by HQPlayer

5. With unchanged volume of Adam monitors, adjust HQPlayer digital volume to the same listening level as in 3.

Now you will have both inputs volume matched as long as you will adjust volume only on Adam monitors.

 

If in the point 5. you would need to lower digital volume too much (maybe more than 20dB), then you could loose too much of available dynamic range with such a setup. Then as a solution I see only to use HQPlayer also in your desk set-up to allow digital volume control, or to use PCM output form the setup where you don't use HQPlayer.

[bipet]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

From you description here as well as on ASR it I don't get why do you need a 2nd DAC, when your issue is to match volume level between 2 DAC inputs. I am assuming you are playing through those Adam monitors from both your main set-up (HQPlayer upsampling) and desk setup (Roon upsampling). What for advantage would bring you 2nd DAC? Second USB input? How do you want to connect 2 DACs to the same Adam monitors? Could you describe your main setup and your desk setup chain in the form like (my guessing):

Roon on computer A -> HQPlayer upsampling to DSD256 on computer B -> USBridge Sig as HQPlayer NAA -> Topping D90 connected by USB

If you would describe both your main and desk set-ups this way then maybe someone could write a reasonable answer

Thanks Bogi for your detailed response.

 

In answer to your question, I am talking about two different end points.

 

Desk - Roon Rock - USBridge Sig - Topping D90 (possible new DAC) - Adam F5s

Lounge - HQplayer - RPI4 - Topping D90 - Musical Fidelity M6si - Kef reference 1's.

 

I will have a read and try your other suggestions now.

[bogi]

You can have D90 set in DAC mode and independently adjust volume on Adam F5 to match digital level of your Desk player and on M6si to match digital volume level of Lounge. I don't understand what's your issue as long as you don't use Kef from Desk and Adam from Lounge.

[bipet]

Thanks @Bogi, I think I am getting there. I have adjusted the volume of the Adams' down, using the controls on the back of the speakers. I then switched over (in HQ Player) from one endpoint (desk) to the other (Lounge) and tested. I have gone back and forth tweaking but its now pretty close now in volume, originally the Adams were very loud and the Kefs quiet, but I have worked on equalising. I think I can safely purchase an additional D90 and run it in my lounge set-up, I can then control which endpoint to use via HQ Player desktop. It will require a bit more tweaking but its close. I am currenty at -12dbfs in HQ Player, which I think is ok.

[bogi]

I would consider -12 dB to be OK, if you don't go lower. Because of upsampling it is required to lower the volume at least 3dB (it raises dynamic range of the audio content so leaving volume at 0dB could lead to clipping). The only drawback of lowering digital volume by 12 dB is 12dB loss of DAC dynamic range. But your D90 provides dynamic range about 120 dB (maybe yet more), so you get say 108 dB. The maximum theoretical dynamic range achievable from CD media format 44.1k/16bit is 96 dB. You could benefit from such high dynamic ranges only in the case of very loud listening. Dynamic range of typical pop music recordings (the difference between the loudest and quietest volume of the recording) is typically compressed by mastering process to be under 20dB, often yet lower. So practically -12dB isn't a problem. -12dB can be also a benefit. DAC distortion is usually lower in the region of -10dB than at 0dB.

I'm quite curious what for device is that Lounge. What's the full model name?

[bipet]

8 minutes ago, bogi said:

I would consider -12 dB to be OK, if you don't go lower. Because of upsampling it is required to lower the volume at least 3dB (it raises dynamic range of the audio content so leaving volume at 0dB could lead to clipping). The only drawback of lowering digital volume by 12 dB is 12dB loss of DAC dynamic range. But your D90 provides dynamic range about 120 dB (maybe yet more), so you get say 108 dB. The maximum theoretical dynamic range achievable from CD media format 44.1k/16bit is 96 dB. You could benefit from such high dynamic ranges only in the case of very loud listening. Dynamic range of typical pop music recordings (the difference between the loudest and quietest volume of the recording) is typically compressed by mastering process to be under 20dB, often yet lower. So practically -12dB isn't a problem. -12dB can be also a benefit. DAC distortion is usually lower in the region of -10dB than at 0dB.

I'm quite curious what for device is that Lounge. What's the full model name?

Thanks you for your response. I think that was 'more or less' my understanding. Its an interesting area of the hobby and I am always keen to know and understand more.

 

9 minutes ago, bogi said:

I'm quite curious what for device is that Lounge. What's the full model name?

I moved the D90 from the lounge to the desk to see if I could get on with it there, and thanks to your help I think I can. For testing purposes, I have plugged the rpi4 into the Musical Fidelity M6si's onboard DAC (instead of the removed D90). So I have been going back and forth between the D90 DAC and the M6Ssi's DAC, equalising the sound.

 

I can now safely order another D90 as I already knows it works well in the lounge set-up plugged into the M6si.