Popular Post Albrecht Posted March 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 7:00 AM, daverich4 said: To me, the comments section of Austinpop's review of the EtherRegen comes across as a "Front of the Web Site" version of his "Massively Improve" thread. That is, a one sided viewpoint on a topic with no disagreement allowed. That's fine, Chris wants people to be able to be able to discuss a topic without disagreement. But I noticed that when I took a look at the Objective-Fi discussion of the review we have @Sandyk, @Superdad, @Vortecjr and others rooting around in their discussion. Does the wall between the Subjective and Objective audiophiles only go one way? To be clear, I'm not commenting on the content of the review and the massive (see what I did there?) amount of time it took to put it together, just the way the firewall seems to be working. Or for me, not working. I don't have the electronics background to be able to always follow along with the technical parts of a discussion. I appreciate it when forum members who are knowledgeable in those areas can point/counterpoint on a given topic. I found the discussion on Objective-Fi with the back and forth interesting and informative and the comments on the article itself, once you accept that "everything matters", boring. I hope that doesn't continue forever. My two cents. Since this "field of study" is 95% correctly applying subjective analysis & experiential knowledge: it makes sense to relegate the largely irrelevant objective conversations to a tiny section of the site. 2nd, the goal is to curb the zealotry and preaching by objectivists who do not test themselves, yet shout subjective conclusions based on poor objective evidence. Audiophile Neuroscience, sandyk, Iving and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Albrecht Posted March 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2020 13 hours ago, jabbr said: Xa S2X321 The “massive” thread is a Fed level stimulus for the audiophile economy Thanks for your comment jabbr. I almost always appreciate your posts, and reasoning ability: not to mention your experimentation, and also sharing it on these forums. Setting aside the humor/sarcasm here; I can seriously ask, what is wrong with that? Personally, - no way can i afford a Meitner, DCS, APL, CHord or Berkeley top tier DAC. But I DO have a mid level- in the line APL DAC universal player that i feel punches WAY above its purchase price. I sure am glad that those companies are still in business producing quality, high performance, equipment that I'll never be able to afford but i can still hear and appreciate them/it for what they are. Whether or not some people here are afraid to examine the evidence, and even do a modicum of research into why shit costs what it costs, - (and in turn has value), - is their problem not mine. The audio world (and people enjoying their recordings as much as they do) would be pretty bloody bleak if every piece of audio gear had the word SONY stamped on it. Audiophile Neuroscience, Teresa and Superdad 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Albrecht Posted March 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/14/2020 at 5:20 AM, daverich4 said: I never suggested that what you posted was wrong, just pointed out that you were allowed to post a counter argument in an objective thread. And yes, @SuperDad and @Vortecjr did contribute to a BALANCED discussion in an Objective thread, something that is not allowed in a Subjective thread such as the comments section of Austinpops article. Do you think that it could be worth exploring whether or not the comments are objective or subjective? Sometimes there are comments made that cite a certain measurement, - (jitter level), - being similar to another (more expensive) device and therefore the SUBJECTIVE CONCLUSION is that component B CANNOT sound better and is snake oil. So a comment like that could be considered both objective and subjective. (Keeping the whole question about what is good science or bad science out of this). Teresa and Audiophile Neuroscience 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Albrecht Posted March 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, jabbr said: Nothing at all wrong with hacking and experimentation!!! I totally agree on looking for low cost/cost effective/DIY Personally its hard for me to follow the thread and so I'd rather break up into multiple topics. My own efforts including building my own high performance servers, NAS which are focussed on performance, rather than "noise", and then isolating all the noise from the audio system using a really high quality network -- even though I've set up a new Mellanox SN2700 switch, (off eBay) and some Source Photonics 100GBase-LR4 single mode modules (also off eBay !!) and runs Linux (Azure Sonic runs debian). Ha ha in any case the upgrade DOESN'T cause massive improvement (or any) in SQ but I'm happy to explore "extreme" solutions So on the left side of my network, perhaps the overclocking forums, or linux etc are most appropriate, and on the right side, is audio (the Proj-ect S2D is much happier with a great PSU etc). Am I an objectivist? Hmmm ... maybe I use specs and physics theory/practice to decide what to investigate? Hiya.... Thanks again for another great post/explanation. In a past life I designed, set up, and installed network rendering systems for LucasArts/Lucasfilm to recruit 100s of PCs to render "skins" for 3D vertices in 3Dstudio Max, Lightwave, and 3 day character animations in Softimage. One of the things that I found in those early days was to have both a high performance network, - (lame compared to today), - plus as fast processors as possible, - plus high quality individual components in those PCs, and Silicon Graphics boxes. Always better to buy high quality power supplies and chip fans in machines that were running 24-7. A $3 processor fan meant a locked up machine and possibly a missed deadline. What I'm saying is that in many high performance machines: sometimes they get the added benefit of less noise? In the chip fan/power supply example: the machines were quieter with more expensive fans. Of course, - economies of scale with luxury goods high-performance audio, (on the analog side), - is way different than the costs of the parts for networking/computing: Yet, high SOME high performance (especially computers), are crazy expensive as well. Plus, - how many $30,000 DACs is Ed Meitner going to sell in a year? And Ed Meitner's dealer accommodation is at least 40% and if he sells one to a reviewer it will likely be 50% to 60% discount. Plus, - each internal component cannot be discounted by buying in bulk. And even though he may sell 1 or 2 a year, - he's got to make at least 4 or 5 prototypes, again buying a pile of parts to experiment with... So someone like EMM Labs has to make money on their cheaper, - lesser performing products that have trickled down from the attention getter, - that they've made (likely) nothing on. It is likely that you know all of this, and I apologize if I'm being obvious, and/or repeating something that you already know.... I am just saying that getting to high performance computer and networking design has it's significant differences in pricing, at the end of the day, - in the computing industry, - the ubiquitousness, plus use in other areas is still cheaper and garners savings by mass production. A Cisco 6509, 2960, a TP-Link 5 port gigabit, Melco, & etherRegen are all switches. But for their applications, some are BETTER than others. I hear you though and trust your wise approach as (especially on the networking side) your fiber implementations (although may be designed for performance) also reduce noise significantly. To me it doesn't matter that you may be both objectivist or subjectivist in your approach, - I call what you are doing GOOD SCIENCE. daverich4, Audiophile Neuroscience and Superdad 1 1 1 Link to comment
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