2Ch Audio Room - Should I Move?

[FrankMA]

I have a decision to make on moving my 2ch audio system to another room.

 

My current system is in my living room which measures approx 15' 7" W x 19' 5" L (system on the 15' wall).  There are 2 windows on the front wall (I can close the drapes in critical listening) and a bank of 3 windows on the back wall behind the listening area (cannot cover all). It also has a pitched ceiling angled from the width ends and flattening out at the top (approx 13' at it's peak). Large opening on one side. 

Listening position is approx 13 1/2' from speakers.

Since this is a living room/dual purpose space there is also couch in the soundstage in front of the rack. No ability to add any acoustic treatments.

 

The wife is ok and actually suggested I take the dining room (which we will relocate). But this room is much smaller:

 

13' 2" W x 15' L (8' ceilings). System would be on the 13' wall.  2 openings (left and straight on from right speaker). 

Listening position is essentially the same at 13' from speakers. Would have some ability to some/minimal acoustic treatment if needed

 

See pics of old & new layouts (ignore hutch in new room)

 

My speakers are good/recommended to be positioned close to the front/side walls (Vandersteen Quatro Woods). General rule is 1/7 from the front & 1/11 from the side walls. They also have extensive bass adjustments for the individual subwoofers so it can be adjusted to any room.

 

 

I am getting really good sound currently (spent years to get to this point) but it is difficult to get at my system and I can't see most of it due to the couch in the way. This room is also used extensively by family so hard to use as much as I would like.

 

 

I am 99% sure I want to make this move but am I moving to a very flawed room from an acoustics standpoint?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any help

[Ralf11]

why not try it temporarily?

 

posting plan views and comparing each room with the 'golden' dimensions would help

[FrankMA]

Hi @Ralf11 I guess that is an option although a ton of work.  Besides moving everything the Vandersteen's have an extensive setup procedure. Also I do not have internet in that room without doing some work.

 

I guess my general question boils down to is it 1) better to have a larger room with high ceilings (with a lot of windows) or 2) a smaller room with a flat/shorter ceiling height and fewer windows?

 

What are the "golden" dimensions anyway?

 

Thank you

 

 

[Ralf11]

here is a calculator

https://www.psaudio.com/room-calculator/

 

is the wall/floor/ceiling construction the same for both rooms?  or was one built differently or later?

 

then there is the issue of how the AC wiring runs are laid out (or putative issue - may or may not matter)

 

those are 3 things to think about

[FrankMA]

Same construction in both rooms. Built at the same time. Plan to run a dedicated 20A line to either room.

 

Current room fits the golden room dims a bit better since it is a larger rectangle. 

 

The new room with a 8' ceiling/13'w needs to be 18-19' L based on the calculator - so it is short on the length by 3-4'

 

Thank you

[Ralf11]

Good Luck

 

a swarm of subs can fix room mode nodes...

[photonman]

I would make the move just based on the convenience factor of being able to get to the equipment easier as that is a constant thing with us.  The smaller room looks cozy and I am sure the challenge of getting the room tuned will be new fun (albeit frustrating at times) but you will have the ability to do room treatments.  But what if you need background music in the current room or is that not a consideration?

 

Anyways good luck and have fun. 

 

(BTW Your house and views of trees with turned leaves reminds me of home in New England).  

[Foggie]

.

[Foggie]

Compromises all around.   The room, its construction and dimensions are such a significant factor in the resultant sound, the only way you'll know which configuration works best for your situation is experiment!  You gotta put in the time or you will never know. 

 

You can use some of the various room "formulas" as starting points and they sometimes can get you close, but without experimenting, again, you'll never know.  Some are fine with plopping down speakers and if what they hear is decent, call it good.  That is totally fine!

 

Ask yourself, are you after the best you can get with what you have or you just wanting "good"?  There is no right/wrong answer, its all what you want to get out of your system.  The phrase you don't know what you don't know comes to mind.

 

Just some food for thought really because the process to what you are after is not summed up in a paragraph et al. 

 

When I moved into my new place a couple yrs ago, I spent a looooooooong time (close to a yr) rearranging, reading, drawing up in CAD all the conceivable variations before settling on my current config.  The key word is "settling" because its a compromise anyway you look at it, and I have a dedicated space.  Domestic, shared spaces are difficult but it doesn't mean you can't get a great sounding rig, IF you put in the time.

 

There are a million opinions, articles, books....its endless. You have to find a source of info you are comfortable with. 

 

Some that I refer to often

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/articles.htm
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

http://getbettersound.com/index.php
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

 

[Ralf11]

mark the current speaker positions carefully and save before moving them...

 

many acoustic tmts. can be had with fine art prints on their surface - obviously not for tube traps (tho ya never know...)

[FrankMA]

14 hours ago, photonman said:

but you will have the ability to do room treatments. 

 

But what if you need background music in the current room or is that not a consideration?

 

(BTW Your house and views of trees with turned leaves reminds me of home in New England).  

Thanks @photonman  It is New England and we just got our first snow! Finished my yard work with hours to spare 😂

 

True. I'm sure I can get it sounding good (at some point). The Vandy's are great since they are highly configurable to the room (especially the bass). 

 

Room treatments would have to be minimal (drapes). Maybe a diffuser behind the system. Wife still wants this to look like a "normal" room

 

This new room is off the main living area so no issue with background music to the house

 

I do have to re-run my outdoor speakers to a box as well as get ethernet to this room. Not major but things to do

 

Thank you

 

 

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, Foggie said:

Compromises all around.   The room, its construction and dimensions are such a significant factor in the resultant sound, the only way you'll know which configuration works best for your situation is experiment!  You gotta put in the time or you will never know. 

 

You can use some of the various room "formulas" as starting points and they sometimes can get you close, but without experimenting, again, you'll never know.  Some are fine with plopping down speakers and if what they hear is decent, call it good.  That is totally fine!

 

Ask yourself, are you after the best you can get with what you have or you just wanting "good"?  There is no right/wrong answer, its all what you want to get out of your system.  The phrase you don't know what you don't know comes to mind.

 

Just some food for thought really because the process to what you are after is not summed up in a paragraph et al. 

 

When I moved into my new place a couple yrs ago, I spent a looooooooong time (close to a yr) rearranging, reading, drawing up in CAD all the conceivable variations before settling on my current config.  The key word is "settling" because its a compromise anyway you look at it, and I have a dedicated space.  Domestic, shared spaces are difficult but it doesn't mean you can't get a great sounding rig, IF you put in the time.

 

There are a million opinions, articles, books....its endless. You have to find a source of info you are comfortable with. 

 

Some that I refer to often

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/articles.htm
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

http://getbettersound.com/index.php
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

 

Hello @Foggie  

 

Very true re: compromises/time.

 

To your point most likely I'll have to move it and see for myself. Looks like the wife wants to make the dining room move whether I move the system or not so I do have time and won't be holding anything up.  I can wait on the 20A install until I'm sure. 

 

I am pretty picky and I'm always looking to squeeze all the performance I can out of my investment. I am getting really good sound now so I don't want to take too much of a step back for the benefits of moving. I can leave it where it is if I absolutely had to

 

Looks like I'll be busy moving my system............

 

Thank you for the resource links

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

mark the current speaker positions carefully and save before moving them...

 

many acoustic tmts. can be had with fine art prints on their surface - obviously not for tube traps (tho ya never know...)

 

Good points @Ralf11  I can easily mark their current position. The only issues about going back is if I start adjusting the height/angle which I don't have to do to test

 

Yeah I doubt the wife would like those tube traps 😀 She is being a good sport already so I don't want to push it too much

[rn701]

Put on Led Zeppelin,  crank it to 11, get comfortable, and rock the f*** out. Life's too short for so much angst. 

[FrankMA]

😂 No angst. Just normal obsessive compulsive audiophile behavior 

[FrankMA]

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with John Rutan at AudioConnection in NJ. He is an expert in setting up Vandersteen's (among other things) and has many years of experience setting up systems.

He is not a fan of a square room. He said it could work if I could set it up asymmetrically  (IE equipment in a corner and the speakers on 2 side walls). However this won't work from a livability standpoint and would put one of the speakers into the room/pathways.

 

He thinks I'm much better off in my current rectangular room and didn't have concerns with the numerous windows/couch in the soundstage

 

Leaning towards staying put now

 

John is always so helpful & I highly recommend people reach out to him. 

[Ralf11]

No one is a fan of a square room - what would happen if you mentioned to your wife that an exterior wall could be knocked out, and the room extended ??

[rn701]

In the white room with black curtains near the station
Black roof country, no gold pavements, tired starlings
Silver horses ran down moonbeams in your dark eyes
Dawnlight smiles on you leaving, my contentment

I'll wait in this place where the sun never shines
Wait in this place where the shadows run from themselves

You said no strings could secure you at the station
Platform ticket, restless diesels, goodbye windows

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

No one is a fan of a square room - what would happen if you mentioned to your wife that an exterior wall could be knocked out, and the room extended ??

😀not an option for either of us