CPU Load and Sound Quality

[Racerxnet]

32 minutes ago, marce said:

Analogue or digital cables?

Analogue - resistance, capacitance, inductance...

Digital - characteristic impedance

Shielding could be an issue if not done correctly...

Have I missed anything

 

 

a audiofool and his/her money are soon parted

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

36 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Very true indeed. And I have the feeling their passion for great sound is also taken advantage of when it comes to pricing. On the other hand they spend their lives listening to absolutely wonderful music, reproduced on state of the art hi-fi. 

 

But its absolutely fine if you don’t believe that cables make a significant difference and you should just save the money, as long as you also accept the price YOU’ll pay....a lifetime of mediocre sound quality and uninspiring music. 

 

I’m certainly not saying you need to spends thousands or even hundreds on cables, but the idea that any old thing will do is simply signing up for sonic mediocrity and boredom, usually talked about in audio circles as poor quality recordings. 

 

I worked with an R&D engineer who believed that cables were just BS designed to separate audiophiles from their money. He invited me over to listen to his system and prove his point, so I selected some of my favorite CDs that represented my collection’s SoTA in rhythm, listener involvement, immersion, sound stage and image focus, beauty and emotion, ambience and hall acoustics.  I have never heard such average and boring sounding CDs in my life. No matter which track was playing I couldn’t wait for it to finish so we could move on. “Maybe the next track will be better” That’s when I truly learned how important proper set-up really is.  

 

Way back when, I used to have a system made my a manufacturer who eschewed anything exotic in the way of cables. They designed their systems to sound good when linked with their own, very unremarkable interconnects and speaker cables.  Did it sound good? Absolutely. Great? Naaaaa not really. But definitely very good. 

 

Today this same company has evolved and you can buy some really top sounding gear, linked by some eye wateringly expensive cable. A ruse to part Audiophiles from their money?  A little bit no doubt; but there’s absolutely NO denying that those cables make a huge difference and there’s no way those systems would achieve what they do without them. No way.  That’s just the harsh reality. Great hi-fi costs a lot of money or some really clever and creative DIY. 

 

If someone is TUNING their system with cables, my take is that they are on the wrong path. IF a competently designed cable is tested and used accordingly as it was intended, and a boutique cable changes the sound measurably, then the boutique cable is flawed or the system was not competently engineered. IF someone does not like the sound reproduction they hear then I suggest these few simple things to try first.

 

Measure the room response with REW. Its free!

Add acoustic treatments where needed.

 

If they still do not like the sound after treatment, BUY NEW SPEAKERS that match Your taste. The room/speaker interaction has the largest impact on sound. If the room still has an unmanageable response, then most people will have to live with it or remodel.

 

All the rest have a diminishing effect on reproduction if using quality components to start with. 

 

Great engineering does not include boutique cables as part of the design process. And, I'm not saying that tweaks do not have a place in audio. I just do not hear benefits to swapping cables on the Mid/hi panels of my system after trying 3 different cables. The bass columns have a proprietary cable for the servo feedback and I have the last iteration of those from Genesis. That was redesigned because of oscillation due to cable length, capacitance, etc.. 

 

MAK

 

[Racerxnet]

57 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Hmmmmm interesting argument

Lets say i take your well designed cable, put it into my system and it sounds fine, perfect, good as I’ve ever heard. Then i take another cable and when i play the same music i hear far more detail from the violins, i can suddenly hear that guitar notes are being played on nylon strings, the background drum has more depth and timbre, and i hear the vocalist breathing through her nose.  “Can’t be”,  I think. “Its just a passive cable”. So I put back the original cable and yes, all the extra detail is gone. Swap back again and the detail returns. 

 

So here’s the thing. The second cable isn’t creating the detail.....the first cable is losing it. Smearing it, smoothing it.  So i look at the second cable in more detail and what do i find?  It seems that’s far more care went into its manufacture....its metallurgy is superior, its drawing process more involved and complex, its dialectic a different material...far more complex to make. The copper conductors have fewer contaminants, its drawing technology avoids crystal boundaries, its dielectric is foamed PTFE, more closely resembling an ideal air dielectric. The result?  Both cables can pass an electric current but one interacts with and influences that signal a lot more than the other and in the process of interacting, small details are lost. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The hunt for the HOLY CABLE GRAIL to match your desired outcome is flawed. You either have a amp, pre-amp, and/or DAC that is influenced by the cable. Maybe all 3, which I would term as poorly designed. A well engineered cable will neither add, nor subtract anything. 

 

MAK

 

[Racerxnet]

Expectation bias when making a purchase plays a huge role in what one expects. The linkage to this is that "it always sounds better". Then everyone can feel better about the expensive cash outlay when the wife asks where the money went, or the gas bill didn't get paid on time. DOES IT EVER SOUND WORSE? Without the engineer, I'm afraid all the cable guru's wouldn't have a stereo system to play with.

 

MAK 

[Racerxnet]

9 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Its a competitive market out there so you’re not going to get just one, you’ll get many...unfortunately with very high prices.  Consequently you'll get the next level of cables, the nearly best, not quite so eye watering but still a fairly major financial commitment. Which leads to the next level of value cables, great performance for more affordable money. Next you’ll get the affordable cables, really good performance for a reasonably economical price.  Finally you’ll get the bog standard, basic cables, well designed, adequate if unremarkable performance and broad appeal to people who just want to get a signal from A to B in the most cost efficient way possible. 

What if the bog standard cable sounded much better than the high dollar one? Would that make the high dollar one inferior?? Just asking! Maybe the high dollar one is unremarkable. Maybe people should tune their room as part of the system instead of cables.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

9 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Lamp cord?

I've tried lamp cord and was actually quite surprised.

[Racerxnet]

26 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Feel free to play around with DPCLatencyChecker and verify the increased latency from a full virus scan. But measurements won’t get you better than mid-fi level of SQ, our ears are more demanding than current measurement techniques. 

The other 50% comes from your your eyes. 

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

You would end up with a lopsided (subjective) conversation that may or may not be based on reality. If not based on reality or technical merit, does that help the community as a whole??? I see the punch bowl already tainted with piss and people drinking from it. Hope everyone enjoyed the holiday!

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

Fair enough. Politics is 2 pieces of $hit in the same bowl. This country is as corrupt as how we viewed the USSR back in the day. Have a great weekend

[Racerxnet]

Frank, can you tell me exactly what you are changing on the laptop to get the magic. IE, are you moving cables, changing the speakers, sitting it on toilet paper. What exactly are you doing. Modded bios? Please answer with some specific details. 

 

Mak

[Racerxnet]

Well, I am hoping for some answers instead of endless blather. Similar to all big rigs don't sound good. Which amps has he heard? Which speakers were used, how was the room response. You know, stuff that really matters. 

 

Mak

[Racerxnet]

11 minutes ago, STC said:

That’s the difference between us. Any claims I make, I could demonstrate in any system. I don’t need my special system. I am not David Copperfield where magic can only happen in a special place. Audio is not magic. 

Amen, If the ears are so golden they should be able to discerne anomalies on other systems as well. Not just their own. 

 

Mak

[Racerxnet]

6 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Racerxnet, 

This isn’t about golden ears....educated ears maybe be certainly not golden. What it is about is taking great care in setting up all elements of a system properly, starting with the room and its acoustics, the power supply to the room, the speaker positioning within the room, vibration control of all system elements,  any network supply and EMI and last but not least, excellent synergistic components and all its interconnecting cables. 

When all that is correct, you’ll have an absolutely stunning system that is a joy to listen to and most recordings will sound very good to exceptional, although there’re always a few baduns. 

And when you then listen to other systems that have not been optimised, what you’ll often hear in comparison is a slightly homogenised sound, lacking in detail, with tonal anomalies, lack of spacial focus and definition, that has poor timing, sounds rather boring and is generally not a lot of fun to listen to, as though you are listening to a rather poorly executed recording. You’ll also likely hear both loudspeakers as easily identified sources that is a sure giveaway that something is lacking with the set-up

 

 

 

 

 

What you are suggesting has been done and more based on my experience in this hobby. So, I agree with what has been said. My system is well above average in quantity and quality. I did the remodel. Used Green glue to decouple. Used REW for the room response. Made and added sound absorption based on the room response. Remeasured again. Bought the Genesis system because it was the best at the time from Arnie Nudell. Had the Kappa 9's , RS1B's, and now the Genesis system. The amps have been 4 7BSST's for the RS1B setup and reduced it to only 2. The Genesis has its own bass servo amp. I matched  the amps with the BP25. Been there and done that with the modded bios for the AX 370 K3 gigabyte motherboard and a 1700x CPU. I could list many things I've done over the years, but have a good grasp on this. My room is not the greatest, but does well. 

 

So it seems like some like to preach to the choir. My system will rival many top end rigs based on what I hear from others in the Chicagoland area. I've heard a lot of good and bad.

 

MAk

[Racerxnet]

6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

This could almost be me talking - except I don't worry about the room and its acoustics, or speaker positioning within the room.

 

With regard to listening to non-optimised systems I could use the same language, except that I then deliberately use a 'difficult' recording, which provokes that setup to produce every obvious distortion - I now have a marker which guides me to improve things.

 

A simple example with the Ring, Ring track I'm using with the current laptop: the chorus line in that song, the actual phrase "Ring, Ring" as sung by the girls has significant distortion, a screechiness, when non-optimised - this steadily is got under control as changes are made in the right direction, and translates to the direct and added reverb sound, makes complete sense to my hearing.

Frank, 

Your reply is a joke for someone who has a system being placed in a room. You don't care about the speaker placement, room acoustics,or the room itself. With a laptop there really is not much you can do in regards to playback. Maybe a few different trials of software that is bitperfect and then you hit the wall. You have been schooled on the response from your speakers, and if it isn't reproducing the full spectrum of the recorded sound, then you are not hearing all that has been recorded. If you had some specifics we could all try, then maybe your thoughts may hold more weight. You optimized what exactly?

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

CPU Load ... 🤩

 

Nothing to do with bitperfect; all about altering the electrical activity within the plastic, while the track is playing. Since all the circuitry is next to each other, with only the most basic power supplies in the thing, it should be pretty obvious that one can alter the interference activity going on ...

 

BTW, nice that you are playing with Nudell's offspring - one of the best LP experiences I had decades ago was in a dealer's home, with such, and Goldmund Reference, Audio Research biggies - the classic combo.

 

There is not much you are going to do within the confines of a laptop. Putting it on the battery?? Then what! Dead end. If you are telling me otherwise, show some pictures..

 

MAK

 

P.S., It is Nudell, and McGowan's work from the genesis line.

[Racerxnet]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

I note that you responded on the Step thread; so you know what I'm exploring - I just take it as far as I can, and see what that gives me ... patience, grasshopper ☺️.

 

Have you looked at https://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/products/ ?

Gary and Carol have a site at Whatsbestforum for the Genesis line. 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/forums/genesis-advanced-technologies-forum.215/

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

57 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Your personal reality is obviously VERY different to a huge number of other members of this forum who post in the Music Server area of the forum.

 

You guys should gather in a neutral place with a unknown system, set up by a competent person, and haul several home built or purpose built computers over for a blind test. It would be interesting to just plug and play and listen for differences. No peeking allowed. Same cables, bit perfect, same software, same re-sampling if desired. 

 

MAK 

[Racerxnet]

34 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 An unknown system is of no use in an exercise like this .It needs to be of the highest possible quality in all the various components used, including where possible, measurements that show that the various components such as the DAC , amplification chain, and speakers should be as close to transparent as possible, as well as judged by actual listening that they are.

 Add to that other variables such as the format of the Audio files, and how they are exported by the various PC/Servers

 e.g. Ethernet, USB, Coax SPDIF etc

 It would be a nightmare to do proper comparisons of each system

 

 

Not going to buy it today. A half way decent set-up should be enough to discern any glaring or subtle differences from the computer itself. Someone suggested that they can hear differences in cable swaps, and should be able to do the same with changing computers as the output source. Just swap out the PC itself. Many are stand alone such as mine. Same rules would apply as above. That would be a good start.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Getting an audio rig in the sweet zone can be compared to getting a particular F1 team to be regular winners ... all the cars, from all the teams, have 'unbelievable' spec's compared to any normal vehicle - but one team always get their drivers on the podium; while another has its engines constantly blowing up, or "the wheels fall off", one way or the other - what's the "magic ingredient" that separates these two scenarios ... ? 🙂

 

Frank, you are not going to be on the F-1 podium with a laptop. 

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

2 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Actually, if I’m not mistaken this is what you said:

 

So, a couple of things spring immediately to mind. If you can’t hear the difference between Belden and XLO Reference cable it means one of 2 things

1. The 2 cables sound very similar to one another. That would be unlikely but certainly not impossible. I don’t know XLO cables or 

2. Your system isn’t revealing the differences 

 

Let me relate a little experience I had. 

 

Back many years ago I ran a Linn Naim system which I wanted to make active. I was running 250 amps and wanted to switch to 135 monoblocks. I was living in Germany at the time and Naim gear was way more expensive than the same stuff in the UK, so I simply waited until my next UK trip and bought the amps there. On getting them back to Germany I simply needed to cut off the plugs and replace them with some Schuko mains plugs. Easy-peasy. I installed everything, waited a few days for it to settle in then sat down for a serious listen. 😧  Why did it sound quite a bit worse than my 250s? Can’t be fully run-in....but a week later I’m still looking for reasons for poor performance and because I’d imported the units I couldn’t call a dealer. The units were functioning correctly, there was no extraneous noise, the channels and frequencies were properly balanced....it just didn't sound very good....bass wasn’t really deep and solid, treble was slightly hard and mechanical....not at all nice. 

The only thing that came up in logical trouble shooting was the power cable changes.   

Given that was only thing I could identify I purchased some original Naim Schuko power cords and hey-presto....sunshine and light.  

So, bit off topic, but when it comes to hi-fi this may be all it takes to turn a top class system into something altogether more average. Its also when I started to realise that power cables can make a difference. 

 

Never mind the mains grunge coming in from the electric company. Lets chop off the plug or swap the power cable and forget about the backend supply. Did Bryston supply or do they recommend boutique power cords? NO!  James won't steer anyone away from this, but considers the supplied cord as properly made for the task. How about engineering the amps to reject the incoming distortions as best they can. Fix the source coming into the house supplying the components.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

19 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 I repeat. The images that were saved using the USB Regen then copied back to a folder in the same HDD as the original series of images were noticeably improved. when compared with the unprocessed files.

 It doesn't matter whether the DIGITAL files are those of Photographs, Audio or Video. 

 

Despite what many here may insist , I do NOT imagine these differences with Digital files !!!

Color space, Gamma, 16-235 or 0-255, White balance??  Driver for the video card? You think a regen changes the video picture???? MPC-HC, MADVR for the renderer? LAV filters? Did you calibrate with Calman, HCFR or other software and a i1Pro for a baseline?

 

Your WAY out there right now. Anyhow, get back on topic please.

 

MAK