The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[stevebythebay]

If burn-in is an issue for anyone, might I suggest they look into Shunyata’s Ethernet and other cables which offer their KPIP process.  These guys are on a roll with their tech.

[stevebythebay]

14 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes, the LPS-1.2 breaks the connection.

 

Try swapping what you power by the LPS-1.2, you may find you like one way batter than the other.

 

John S.

John:

 

I’ll be installing a JS-2 to support both the EtherREGEN and a Roon Nucleus soon. The “A” side of the EtherREGEN has both of these wired in along with a WiFi router (Eero mesh).  

 

As I understand it, I should connect the ground on the EtherREGEN.  I’ve ordered up a Desco banana jack ground plug adapter and associated cable To plug into an available wall socket. I’m assuming it shouldn’t matter what circuit receptacle I plug this into.
 

Just checking for any other recommendations on noise mitigation or placement for the EtherREGEN. 

[stevebythebay]

5 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Unfortunately the exact "ground" to use for "BEST" results is not necessarily easy to figure out. The simple answer is any socket connected to safety ground. There MAY be very subtle differences with connecting to grounds from different circuits.   You can certainly try different sockets if you have different circuits near the ER. The best is usually the closest to the ER so you use the shortest ground wire.

 

John S.

No problem.  I’ve got the following receptacles and current connections that are all within inches of one another:

 

a) a 20a circuit which currently being used by my Denali (it’s supporting analogue devices);

b) a 15a circuit currently used by a low output wall wart for a Synergistics Research FEQ. 

 

So I can use an available receptacle on either of these circuits. In either case the banana to spade cable is 1.5m. 
 

Will either of these of these work?  Any preference?  Or should I simply connect the ground plug to a receptacle on the Denali?

This grounding stuff is a mystery to me... 

[stevebythebay]

10 minutes ago, thyname said:

Guys, if budget allows, try Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Reference Ethernet cables. I promise you, it will be your last Ethernet Cable you will ever need. That is of course, if you cannot afford the Galileo SX 😁 (I cannot) 

Though I've used SR products for many years, including Galileo analogue and digital interconnects in my current system, I'd recommend trying, for a bit less than a c-note, the top end Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, rather than Mr. Denny's, less than top end Galileo cable.  That's assuming you can get your hands on both for trial.  I'm betting the less expensive one from Shunyata will surprise. 

[stevebythebay]

3 hours ago, Lucie said:

A couple of days ago I reported my initial findings. Of course I didn’t stop listening these last days. And I have to report that my enthusiasm remains high as far as the soundstage (deeper), the separation of the instruments, and the placement are concerned. But these last days I had some growing doubts about the better “listenability” I reported earlier. My wife was still very positive in this respect, but over the last days for me the music had developed a certain “dryness”. This was perhaps my way of avoiding the word “dullness”. I was looking for the ‘old’ energy in my perception of the music, but I thought the most probable explanation was psychological: initial enthusiasm perhaps somewhat exagerated? Tiredness in these busy weeks during the dark months?…Who can tell? Done too much listening perhaps?

 

From the very start I had my ER connected to a sBooster 12V LPS. I had it on my former switch, and I had no doubt at all that that would be the best thing to do. Yesterday evening, I decided to connect the ER to the supplied 7.5V supply. No special reason for that, just to give it a try, before disconnecting it again and putting it in a box somewhere in the barn. Although I was pretty certain that the supplied PS would be an inferior solution, it was a revelation. I couldn’t believe my ears! If I were to read this from anybody else on this forum, I would think: interesting, but very improbable…

 

So I asked my wife for a blind test. I just had her listen to a minute or so of music (the difference is so clear, you don’t need more), changed the PS and asked her if she heard a difference. She said: "Of course, that’s clear isn’t it?!". The sBooster she described as “more dull” (in Dutch: doffer) and “more veiled” (omfloerster). That’s exactly what I hear. To me the 7.5V PS is a big improvement over the sBooster. (Re-reading this I can hear a voice say: nobody is going to believe this). In my system anyone can hear it in a minute. Beyond doubt . My wife (unlike me she likes background music) also thinks the music is less listenable, because it's more upfront. Fair to report that as well. And no worries: we’ve always figured this out together quite well 🙂 🙂 .

 

To me the smile and the joy are back and the “dryness” completely disappeared. The volume can be turned back down a bit. The other advantages I reported before stayed unchanged: the soundstage remains deep, perhaps the separation and placement of the instruments improved a bit. That’s my impression for now at least. I’ll have to do more listening to confirm that.

 

I have no explanation for this very big PS effect. On the contrary: it seems improbable, disturbing. Note that the sBooster is 12V, the PS 7.5V. Could that make any difference? By the way I grounded the ER when the sBooster was attached and the grounding is still connected.

 

Now on to the next 100 hours. A good friend of mine, who also had his ER in the second batch, comes for some music listening just before Christmas. We’ll do some blind testing then. I’ll report our findings later.

Do you think it might have anything to do with grounding of the eR?  Might be worth testing of a ground wire to the eR when using the Sbooster. 

[stevebythebay]

23 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Are you guys using the stock power cord with the ER's Stock PSU, it's curious but i can hardly hear an improvement (although there is but minimal) using an HDPLEX 200W at 9v with its variable output, BUT i can hear a more than a subtle improvement when using a more robust power cable with the stock PSU, even i can hear difference between the OYAIDE COOPER outlets vs the OYAIDE RHODIUM outlets in the wall

Interesting that you mention doing this.  I'd loaned the eR to my dealer to see what they thought of it.  In the process (and by the way the eR switch was a eye-opener for them) they in fact swapped the provided power cable with a new one from Shunyata called the Venom V14 Digital and found it a worthy upgrade.  I've put a couple into my systems for both the eR and my projector, and it's value in rejecting RFI/EMI has been noticeable.  Guess it's the noise filtration on the line that gets minimized.  Anyway, it's not too far out of line, as regards price, when balanced against the cost of other components in my system.

[stevebythebay]

6 minutes ago, andresz said:

Try a Shunyata Alpha - about $700 US second hand. A killer. Also Shunyata ethernet venom - Sigma if you can afford it., Both ends. Uptream does matter. You can hear the effect of filters, EMO etc.... Isolate everything. Make sure all components are vibration treated re platforms. 

Agree re: the Shunyata Ethernet cables.  I'm using a pair of Sigmas, one from my Roon Nucleus to the eR and another from the eR to my dCS Upsampler.  I've taken advice re: vibration control placing the eR on my HRS rack with a Sumnacon heavy duty door stopper sitting atop the eR.  Works nicely and acts as a bit of a heat sink as well.

[stevebythebay]

11 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

The ethernet cable in my system goes from my wall outlet to the eR. I replaced a no name flat cable (that was no slouch) with the BJCable and there was slight improvement in detail, enough to keep the BJ cable in the system.

 

I replaced the BJC with Cable Matters Cat 8: mid bass increased and there is more detail without harshness. I've had a mid-bass suckout in the big system, I thought was the room...maybe it was, but. It seems gone. And, cymbals just sheen and sound so real. I keep wondering, how much detail is in those 1s and 0s? To think we may be years or decades away from finding out.

 

My wife, who is as much a music freak as I am, but gets as much happiness from the speaker in her bathroom as she does from the big system, has always said the system lacked bass...though it includes a REL SE 212 that crosses over where the maggies drop off. Last night the mid bass was there as it should be. Tonite we will listen with the Cable Matters in the system to get her opinion.

 

So, the search for the 'best' ethernet cable will go on for me. I am also working on trying better SFPs. I'll report in a few weeks.

 

I've come to not be surprised that any change to a system component makes a change in the system SQ, no matter what you change; the entire system is completely interactive and every change creates some sound difference. Am I too subjective? Not scientific enough...even though I'm a scientist...Am I hallucinating or being duped?

 

My answer is No! All high end audio is about extracting the best SQ from microscopic/sub-microscopic changes in the flow of electricity and all these active and passive gadgets manage the flow of electricity and/or clean up what is in the flow. To me, further argument only comes from people who do not understand the phenomena of high end audio audio. I don't see the benefit of arguing with people who simply do not understand the field they are commenting on. and so argue from preconceived notions that are impervious to new information. 

 

As always, we have been and are being led by Jesus, Alex and especially John. Greatness is in the execution of the great idea. They saw it and see it and get it. Thank you all so much.

 

Music is one of the few elixirs of life for me and likely others here. I do enjoy it over the radio...and there is a lot of music that sounds better over the radio with radio type speakers.

 

So all music that is personally appealing is good, but great performances of great music recorded in a way that makes the music sound live over my system is a wonderful experience I'm driven to return to again and again...like an addiction. Of all the addictions I could have, this one is not so bad. Addiction? The experience I get does modify and pique certain pleasure centers of my...our...brains. That's why I think we keep coming back to sit in the chair by ourselves in the quiet room for so many hours.

 

Bits may be bits, but the magic carpet bits are riding on is what we are trying to improve. I think my experience tells me that a lot of the magic is in the power supplies and the cables and all else that tames the carpet's ride.

 

We are creating better and better microscopes, so the better our systems get at controlling the electricity, the more we will experience changes for the better in SQ.

 

Now that I'm at the end of the post, I think I can see that this long post was "just" a rationalization for trying that Shunyata $2,000.00 ethernet cable.  Sigh... OK, if it makes even more magic than I have now, I'll let you know. 🙂

Whoa...18 meters or so is quite a distance (based on highest priced Sigma cable and about 2K). But it will be worth it given the very likely improvement over whatever you’ve tested so far. 

[stevebythebay]

4 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Is anyone here using the ER with Euphony ?

 

I having mayor drop outs after a week of ER's burning in, and now suddenly not only with the ER but replacing it with the TP LINK which i have had since two years ago without problems until now...i checked all connections that ram aware so far in order to discard elects that could be causing this issue: and when i disconnect my NUC endpoint and connect my Macmini direct to the DAC using ROON directly there is no issue so far.

 

In the other hand my internet speed seems to be fine but real performance when opening pages on the web or playing videos is not as good and sometimes very slow (weird, never happened)

 

I am powering my ER with the HDPLEX 200W at 9V and the NUC with a PH SR4 at 19V

 

Any idea ??

I’m pretty certain this crossed your mind - go back to what worked flawlessly before to verify that it still does and then proceed from there. 

[stevebythebay]

21 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

It is what i did but the TP LINK switch that was in place is also doing the exact issue...

So, from what you’ve said so far all evidence points to a failing NUC. What are the key hardware/software differences between the NUC and the Mac Mini?  And I’m unclear on the differing wiring. What software player or players are you using on each?  If you test with the Mac Mini to eR what happens?  And using the TP-Link in the same linkage has the same symptoms - would point to question of Ethernet cables becoming unstable. 

[stevebythebay]

11 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

I thought it was @2K for 1 meter.

 

I'll check, now you say this, probably  I was thinking about the USB to replace my Wire World Premium Starlight 7.

 

I looked at cable co and see the Sigma ethernet is 900...Hmmm....I could have rationalized less 🙂

 

Thanks

 

G

That's why the cost is so high.  You'll see that unlike many other higher end cables, Shunyata is not exorbitant as you increase cable lengths.  The items you're paying for are the 2 CMode bits and the more expensive ends.  But it's really worth a try between the eR and the DAC.  Not clear to me from what you've said just where your focus is re: your current Ethernet setup.

[stevebythebay]

5 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

Can't try between the eR and the DAC as the DAC is USB YGGI

Guess I'm not clear on how you've wired everything in your system.  What is included on both the A and B sides of the eR, especially the B side?  Do you only have the single cable from the wall coming into the A side?  Or is that the B side? 

[stevebythebay]

OK.  So, if I get the picture in my mind your cable modem/router lives upstairs?  Then Ethernet wiring emerges downstairs.  And what you're seeking is to introduce your sonic transport source/player into the downstairs switched environment.  Does the sonic transport act as a switch (multiple Ethernet ports) or are you planning to add an additional eR to support the sonic transport? 

 

As I recall, with optical, everything is reversed with the B side acting as the "input" and the A side supporting optical "Out".  With a single eR the Ethernet from the wall would enter the B side of the eR. 

 

Guess I'm not clear on why a second eR is needed.  Doesn't the sonic transport have WiFi built in to support management of its local library and streaming? 

 

Guess a diagram of your proposed environment might help.  Also, given that your going optical out to the Rendu, what role does the Rendu play in your process?  Is it acting as a Roon Ready endpoint with the sonic transport as a Roon Core? 

 

The YGGI is getting its USB feed from an optical to USB converter device???  I've found optical a poorer sonic option due to the number of physical connections and less attractive devices in the link, especially if you can get devices closer together.  Seems that bringing the sonic transport downstairs would make using purely Ethernet a far simpler and better option.

 

But only testing out alternatives will prove what's best (see below):

 

I've used, for many years, a Yggdrasil / WireWorld Gold AES/EBU cable / Berkeley S/PDIF to USB box / Synergistic Research Galileo USB / microRendu / Sonore Signature LPS.  All this in the home theater setup.  The Berkeley was left over from prior DAC and using it is sonically superior to going straight USB out of the Yggy.  Can never make assumptions about what will turn out to sound best...testing...testing...testing.

[stevebythebay]

Some company’s designs dictate longer lengths https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/caelin-whats-your-view-on-ethernet-cables.27373/#post-586847  But it’s not at all clear for many others. Best to use one of sufficient length to avoid possible reflectance, such as 1.5m. 
 

As for the Niagara, does it offer isolation of each receptacle to another, or in isolated pairs?  That would help. 

[stevebythebay]

I believe if you read through a number of other posts in the various forums about the eR you'll find a number of them, especially from Puma Cat, discussing both placing resonance reducing platforms below the eR as well as adding weights to the top of the eR, in this last case as both heat sink and to a lesser degree from any movement due to heavy Ethernet cables.

 

I've been experimenting with a variety of items along these lines.  Below I've tested silicone types and Ayre Myrtle wood blocks for vibration absorption, and finally a bunch of Synergistic Research MiG 2.0 footers.  The latter have been the most surprising, providing a more focused image with greater dynamics, and an even wider sound stage and quieter / blacker background, allowing me to crank up the volume that much more.  I'd not thought to use them, given the small eR footprint, but I was able to get 3 of them to just fit.  As for the use of a heat sink, I got a Sumnacon door stop, and removed the rubber bottom for best heat transfer.  It's nice in that respect as well as keeping the eR stable on my HRS rack.

 

So, in essence, I agree with your observations, in that it seems the eR is somewhat susceptible to it's environment.  Guess the electronics, under the hood, can be effected by any number of things.  I'm most certain some will find other tweaks related to where the eR is located relative to other components, how best to shield the eR from stray RFI (Faraday cage anyone?).  Time will tell.

[stevebythebay]

51 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Yes, as was I.  But I do understand when some of the explanations about this kind of stuff makes it hard to take seriously.  I suppose the truth of it is:  the manufacturer had a theory, tried stuff and some of it was audible.

 

Well, to switch the metaphor, you have clearly drunk the Kool-Aide.  And are enjoying the experience.  Interesting that with all your SR stuff the ground block didn't make a difference.  I thought that was a central concept of their cables...

 

To return to the thread -- is the Atmosphere ethernet cable AFTER the eR?  Would be interested in what you found if you experimented with alternatives.

I'm still using much of what I purchased from SR, though it's strictly cabling, though I do have and figured out how to make the HFT's work in my room.  Agree that quite a bit of his "technology" quite often relies on setup, for which only he seems to have the smarts.  Even dealers are left to fend for themselves in making his stuff work.  The original ART stuff does seem to work, when painstakingly set up correctly.  But I also found the ground block quite useless in my setup (especially having come to Shunyata products for conditioning my power environment). 

 

As we all find - we learn from out tweaks, and if there's merit to this stuff it often finds its way into "legitimate" products and fly under the radar.

[stevebythebay]

For those of you running with external clocking, have you found that clock cables make a difference?  If so, which ones actually do enhance the performance and SQ of the clock?

[stevebythebay]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Installed the -10db attenuators on the receiving opticalModule. Thoughts so far - this is yet another rabbit hole to go down! Might actually be worth starting a separate thread. Sound was a bit disconcerting at first - there's so much more detail, and the instruments have so much separation, I think it's taking my brain/ears awhile to adjust (burn-in so to speak). Bass doesn't seem as prominent, but on careful listening one can really hear the full tone of the bass, and really discern the instrument in space, and pick it out even when it's pushed back in the mix. In fact the same can be said for every instrument/sound. Closing my eyes and listen to "Cluster &Eno" and Harrison/Shankar's "Chants of India" last night was near psychedelic sounding, for lack of abetter descriptor. 

 

With all of that extra clarity, it did seem to lose some mids weight and musicality (toe tapping) but I'm thinking that's mostly a case, like I said, of getting used to all of the new detail. The big question is: how do different db attenuators sound, and would a better quality attenuator (say a Belkin) sound any better? Also, both ends vs just the receiving one? 

Yep!  Like diff in looking at Grand Canyon form a distance using binoculars versus with eyes wide open at the rim. 

[stevebythebay]

Just like to chime in on the JS-2 experiences.  The JS-2 is powering both my EtherREGEN as well as a Nucleus Roon server.  Both have benefited from this LPS.  System has settled in with it's presence and is oh so sweet!

[stevebythebay]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:51 AM, bernardl said:

I finally got my clock cable and was able to deploy a few days ago the following configuration:

- SonoreOptical module -> fiber -> EtheRegen -> Devialet 1000 Expert Pro CI

 

Additional considerations:

- I use as external clock a Cybershaft OP21A-D with external linear power supply connected to a Shunyata Everest power conditioner with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital cable

- The clock cable connecting the EtheRegen to the Cybershaft is a Shunyata Sigma 75 Ohm

- The Cybersharft is configured in chassis grounding mode and is grounded to the Shunyata Everest which is my common grounding reference for the whole system (this is point is in fact pretty important soundwise)

- The EtheRegen is fed by a LPS-1.2, itself connected with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital to the Shunyata Everest

- The EtherRegen is also grounded to the Shunyata Everest

- I have designed and had 3D printed in aluminium a special heatsink cradle enhanced with copper plates to help with heat dissipation of the EtheRegen and LPS.

 

The system has been up for a few days and is starting to sound pretty good. I am coming from a truly excellent Melco S100, I am interested in seeing to what extend the EtheRegen, with arguably the best possible supporting environment money can buy, will sound like in a few days relative to the Melco.

 

Btw, the cybershaft will also be used to clock a Mutec once I get the right power supply for it.

 

Cheers,

Bernard

 

Interesting grounding. I’ve the same clock + LPS from Kenji.  He set it up per my configuration on the assumption that I’d be connecting all my equipment into my Shunyata power conditioners, which I am. He set all the GND switches to Isolate.  My assumption is that by ensuring that all devices including the LPS are connected into power conditioners which connect to wall receptacle, everything is properly grounded. Using a ground wire from the Cybershaft to the Everest ground, according to Caelin, is simply redundant. Same applies to EtherREGEN (I’m using a JS-2 for both my EtherREGEN and Roon Nucleus). 
 

What’s the reasoning and results of your setup?

[stevebythebay]

Well with respect to the EtherREGEN it seems that, according to Alex, the JS-2 provides the necessary grounding for the switch, as compared to other approaches beyond the provided power dongle.  However, in my communication with both Kenji and Caelin nothing is clear cut respecting grounding.  Using a good cable from the Cybershaft chassis ground to one of the grounding posts on the Denali or Everest can improve the grounding.  

 

Your experience is instructive as to the Melco and, I assume, using the LPS 1.2, right?

 

So, I will pursue that down the road.

 

I'm still awaiting a bunch of new v2 Shunyata digital and analog cables as well as power cables.  Also, upgrading a pair of Sigma Ethernet to Omega and the Everest.  Onward and upward!

[stevebythebay]

Anyone have knowledge or experience with this product from Russ Andrews:

 

https://www.russandrews.com/us/rj45-minizap/ 

 

Guess his "zap" products focus on minimizing the effects of wifi in components.

 

Seems pricey but at least you've got a 60 day trial with money back guarantee.