Which DAC to buy for my AudioEngine A5+?

[DuckToller]

Khadas Tone Board DAC with Case, attention new KTBD to be rfm in August.

I am listening to it (old board with "ESS-dump") since 4 weeks, and for just 100 Euro it's having an exciting SQ and superbe specs.

Cheers, Tom

[DuckToller]

Uff, its correctly called ESS-hump, not dump, that heffalump... 🙄🙄🙄

[DuckToller]

 

38 minutes ago, ahmed98 said:

What kind of inputs does it have?  

USB C and S/PDIF Input/Output,

plus I2S to VIMs

Hth, cheers, Tom

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, ahmed98 said:

Can you send me the link please?  

https://docs.khadas.com/toneboard/UserManual.html

 

Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, ahmed98 said:

They are releasing a newer version in august yeah?

That's what they were announcing in May in their forum and what they wrote as well in response to my mail beginning of June. I have requested more precise information this week, unfortunately I still wait for a detailed answer.

 

1 hour ago, ahmed98 said:

Also is this a better option than the FiiO K3 or the SMSL M6 or the Topping D50?  

I haven't heard these units, but in my system the KTBD does sound better (clearer, more pronounced, better detail & separation) than the AQ DF Red and the Topping NX4, which sports the same DAC/XMOS configuration as the Khadas.

It does not best my ifi iDSD BL, but at a 5th of the price it plays clearly above price point.

There are some unresolved issues such as hardware volume control with Windows and DSD above DSD64 under Linux, but I am under impression they are working on it. DSD256 under Windows works well, but the output is @ 100% volume, so some volume control between your ears and the DAC are recommended from my side.

I use LMS on RPI2&3b, and with alsa I have software volume control working, just upto DSD64. I'll check over the weekend if DSD256 will work native with Android and USB Audioplayer pro and report back next week.

Bon week-end, Ahmed

bg Tom

 

[DuckToller]

Ahmed,

Which is the operating system and the audio software of choice in your setup?

Which type of DSD files you are listening to? Is it DoP or native?

USB Audio Player Pro & Hiby under Android 8.1 do not support hardware volume control for DSD with the KTBD upgraded to the newest firmware. For DSD native.

Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

35 minutes ago, ahmed98 said:

Sir I have my speakers plugged to the default sound card of my pc for the time being and I listen to FLAC tracks on Foobar. My PC os is Win 7.  Sometimes stream HiRes tracks from my phone via bluetooth however SQ is not reaching it's potential due to the hardware of the PC and the cheap bluetooth adapter

Thank you, Ahmed.

When I return home tomorrow, I'll test the setup with foobar 2k. I suppose you have installed the Super Audio CD Decoder input plugin for foobar2000?

Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

21 minutes ago, ahmed98 said:

No sir not yet. When I buy my DAC, I will! Thank you for all the help. Do stay in touch! ☺️🙏🏼

 You're welcome, Ahmed 😎

[DuckToller]

Bonjour from France, Ahmed!

I had a little re-think on the information you have provided, and I'd like to sum up, what I have i understand, that allows you to correct me and fill in important details for others.
 

1) You are on the Maldives with limited access to the worldwide market of audiophile technology except of eBay and aliexpress.

2) your budget was 150 USD, now it's enhanced to 250 USD.

3) Your chain is your Desktop computer (or laptop?) - Foobar2000 - USB out - NEW DAC - Audioengine A5+ (Classic or wireless ? that's an important difference!). Do you use an desktop environment or a living room environment?  As you have a s Yamaha SUB en plus?

4) You want to play FLAC AND DSD with your new device, where DSD is an option for the future, because you haven't installed the DSD plug in for F2K and no .dsf-files yet.

5) You prefer convenience to DIY (The Khadas would involve some minor DIY, fitting some screws to fix the board into the case, no other tinkering is required)

6) You basically ask for advice on two popular, but different DAC chips, the AKM's and the ESS-9138M2Q.

 

I assume for the moment, as it was not particularly noted in your thread, that you haven't the A+ wireless, because if otherwise, you would not be looking for a DAC, due to the fact that an AKM DAC is already included in these. OTOH,  the volume of your speakers is remote controlled, which is a comfort if you don't sit on arm's length (nearfield).

 

There is nothing wrong with the Schiit products that were mentioned in response to your question, apart  that your desire to play DSD would be limited to DSD64, if you buy the Schiit Loki, the Modi multibit doesn't do DSD afaik, but the multi-bit (ladder-DAC) technology is known to sound very "analogue" if implemented correctly.

 

And here we are at the main points about DACs in this price range, they may differ in engineering and implementation, plus usually the after sales concept is fairly reduced, the technology is often basically divided between a single unit or pair of chips from either, AKM or ESS.

 

From my experience, I would prefer a dual mono design (including separate power supplies) for power amplifiers, just about the use of a dual DAC chip utilization I am more uneven, as usual it is always the implementation that counts, not only the design. And for example, the KTBD does measure better than some dual DAC-chip units.

 

I am convinced you may be perfectly happy with a SCHIIT product, even without DSD, because they are said to have sound quality far above price range. On the other hand, having raised your budget by 100 quids, you may think as well in the other direction:

Build a dedicated music server device based on RPI 2/3/4, with a Music player like Squeezelite or Volumio using an USB hard drive, allows you to listen to your music in connection with a minimal ecologic footprint and without having your computer idle all the time.

 

I am not a great tinkerer myself, I avoid soldering as much as I can, but I found setting up a Raspberry with PiCorePlayer and LMS/SqueezeLite was as easy as it can get. It is free of charge, and it allows you to control everything via mobile, tablet or desktop, has a decent sq and works without greater flaws (DSD only up to DSD64 with the Khadas board).

And yes, this option will be available as well if you decide for a SCHIIT device, just when you will have another 100-150 USD available for enhancing your audio chain with a dedicated music server.

From my viewpoint, I'd start with Pi/KTBD combo with PiCore and wait for DAC upgrade possibilities to come, but youremileage may vary. Test as an alternative with Volumio and stay with one you prefer for the time being.
 

Back to your setup: I have verified FB2K with the newest SACD plug-in and the maximum Buffer settings with ASIO to play DSD256, with moderate buffers it plays DSD128 well, but seems to be a bit flawed for the DSD256 files.
You will find DSD test files with native DSD who offer a free sampler for testing out DSD quality. They also show you how to setup FB2K for DSD !
 

Be aware, that playing non native DSD via Upsampling to DSD 256 or 512 requires a lot of computational power and it is up to everyone's own perception, if this investment does increase sound quality in an acceptable manner. For my iFi in the main system I found to upsample DSD64 to DSD512 using the foo asio dsd output does have some quality effects, trying the same with high res flac did not offer results suitable to my tasting. The benefits and caveats of DSD Upsampling have been summarized in this posting and it can be useful to read the whole thread.
 

I have tested as well the Topping NX4 with foobar and it performs quite well, just not as open and with a bit less clarity and depth compared to the Khadas. His strength are the build quality and the ease of use after you have installed its USB audio drivers combined with the additional adjustable headphone output and the volume control, which comes in handy for native DSD bitstreaming up to DSD256.
As someone have said here before, there might be no big difference between the Topping units you have named, apart using different DACs in different configurations ... pls take this with a pinch of salt ... 😉

I had talked before about Volumio and as I was writing this response and listening to the Khadas in 32bit/192khz (and I love it!) via foobar2k , I have downloaded the image & transferred it to a 16GB SD-card for using it with my RPi 3b, which is usually a squeezelite player with the other SD card inside. Now it needs 5 minutes of set-up and then I will test the DSD playing with the Khadas.

 

DSD just works in Volumio - with volume control ! - only in DSD64,which sounds perfectly fine, but it's a clear limitation without DSD128 and DSD256. I am convinced there are tweaks to get the RPi playing DSD on higher rates over USB, but I did not plunge into that topic yet.

Setup from Volumio has improved during the last years, this advancement  I need to underline, just the fact that you need pay monthly or annually some extra to use plug-ins for Tidal and Qobuz are the reasons I do not use Volumio in my personal setup. I understand the need to monetize on features, but prefer rather to donate to the PiCorePlayer (below PiCore/squeezelite/MaterialSkin)  team instead.

 

 

My most valuable recommendation before you buy anything, especially if it need lot of efforts to send items back or discuss with after sales agents, make your mind up about your personal strategy and be aware that this is always just the start of a journey into audiophiledom, a sphere where bigger, better and more costly will always be available ...
 

Hope you find your personal way in this audiophile jungle, Ahmed, and pls keep on asking in the forum, if you are friendly as you seem to be, you will always find someone here, who is willing to help and support you!

Best, Tom from France

[DuckToller]

4 hours ago, ahmed98 said:

Thank you Tom! I have the classic A5+ speakers and its a living room environment with my desktop PC. Currently aiming for the Topping D50 or the Schiit product. Once again, thanks for all the help! ☺️🙏🏼

 

You are welcome,  Ahmed!
 

I think you could nothing wrong with the D50, as it tick all your boxes, and over at ASR it is assumed as a very good unit, AFAIR.

The price of 180 USD would leave you with the option to use a dedicated music server/player  as the Pi3+ bundles are now less than 50 USD with case, power supply and SD card included.

Upgrade path for the future could be: Different case, power hat, use of an iFi power supply and an USB-WiFi receiver for de-activating the internal Wifi and bluetooth units. (between 10 and 50 USD per option. I can confirm, that ther was a significant audible improvement from cancelling RMI/EFI noise in my speakers using the iFi power supply for the RPI.

An important quote from the volumio website about the performance testing on the Pi3b+:
" Luckily though, I then tried to play the same files from a USB drive (and not from a NAS), and magic happened: spotless playback up to 32\768. Seemed that taking ethernet (I was connected on wired connection) out of the equation did the trick. So connected the PI via wifi and restarted without ethernet: same result, HI-Res Music playback was just perfect to my USB DAC.

So, it seems that there is still some issue (hopefully it’s driver related) to the Ethernet controller, which seems to give up lots of packets in high-bandwidth situations. I am however pretty confident that the foundation will solve this issue, as it’s not uncommon that hardware performances get dramatic improvements as software gets tuned up after community feedbacks.

The good news is that there are actually tangible improvements on USB throughput, as I did not experience a single glitch with a great variety of files: 16\44.1,24\96,32\768 flac, DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 and 8X MQA (this is an extremely meaningful test, since if even a single packet is lost the MQA decoding would stop)."

 

The all new RPi 4 with case, card and PS would come about 40 USD more expensive, but is not yet directly available, though it could be still in your limit. I would guess, that with the new USB architecture the performance regarding USB throughput for DSD maý be enhanced. I'd regard that as another upgrade path for the future, based on sufficent testing reports.

 

You will most certainly profit from substantial lower noise floor in your listening environment if the source of your music is disconnected from your PC, and the PC is shutdown. For critical listening, for example,  I'll try to close down anything that enhances the noise floor in my office, this is why the Pi's with a USB stick or USB HD come in so handy.

 

Best regards, Tom