Power conditioning: how did you choose the best approach for your system?

[Kimo]

On 7/3/2019 at 6:36 PM, fas42 said:

Just to note that recordings are intrinsically 'smooth' - edgy highlighting of 'detail' is not what was captured, and 'correct' replay will always resemble what one achieves currently with well done horns and valve amplification.

 

Effective power conditioning will move one that much further from "transistor sound", and "graininess" - these are both distortion artifacts, which one is trying to completely eliminate.

 

You pretty much need to go with tubes, if you want to get rid of the touch of annoying AM radio edge that just about every solid state amp has to some degree.  For the last 20 years, I have listened to mostly tube amps, with Pass gear sneaking in for awhile.  Class A solid state all the way, but still not perfectly free of just a bit of transistor edge.  Perhaps, a fair trade off, given all the other great things the product offered.  

 

I have never used power conditioning on any tube amp, or any of the Pass gear, for that matter.  Never recommended by the manufacturer.  

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

It is possible to get "tube sound" with transistor technology - in 35 years I have never ventured into circuits using glowing active devices, , because I have never heard a rig using these types of components deliver anything that I couldn't get from solid state components.

 

I have owned plenty of both and feel otherwise.  The two shall never meet for lots of reasons, especially in the world of SET.   

 

Take the trip before it is too late.  It may not be your cup of tea, but you never know until you try.

 

[Kimo]

30 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

I don't want the amplification to add its 'colour' to the the sound - the goal is to hear the recording, and only the recording. And tube components when not up to the mark adulterate the sound too much - I have heard this happen plenty of times with less ambitious units; and then when you hear precision tube amplification, well, it sounds the same as high grade solid state amplification ... strange, that, .

 

If I want to experience lush tube sound, I just put on some recording from the late 50's, popular music category - I can smell the heat of the gear used in the recording; it just oozes honey richness. But this is conveyed to me via a highly neutral solid state replay chain; which just gets out of the way, and presents the signature of the recording technology - as it should be.

 

I don't believe in the notion of neutrality in audio.  You can say that an SET with gobs of 2nd order distortion, but not much else in way of crossover distortion, IMD, or high order distortion, is less neutral than a class AB solid state device that injects all of the above into the signal but to a lesser extent,  but you are just echoing your own view.  Lush tube sound may only be lush by comparison to dry solid state sound.   They are both audibly colored no matter what some yoke might state about a .05 threshold.   Not all distortion is created equally for the sake of human hearing.  

 

As to precision tube amplification sounding anything like solid state, it simply doesn't, not really.  The presence of the transformer alone wipes out that notion for me, or perhaps it is the inevitably high output impedance.  

 

I have been auditioning solid state amps quite a bit lately, and honestly they almost all annoy to an extent.    

 

You are welcome to stop by if you come to Cleveland and give a listen to a particularly powerful and overbuilt precision tube amp, but you may have to wait a bit while I swap out the powerful and overbuilt precision sand amp.  They certainly won't sound the same, but you may not necessarily have a favorite.  

 

 

[Kimo]

7 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

didn't Bob Carver build a SS amp that was indistinguishable from a high-end tube amp?

 

~30 years ago?

 

I have seen plenty of descriptions of solid state amps that sound just like tube amps, but I have never heard one.   I have seen Audio Research amps described as sounding like solid state, but they never came across that way to me.

 

Since tube amps often sound very different from each other, I wonder which one he was able to mimic?

 

 

[Kimo]

8 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

A  S.E.T. can't come remotely close to a modern SS amplifier, which these days often have distortion figures of <.0006%, bandwidth to 200kHz or higher, and an Unweighted S/N of >115dB.  A S.E.T. is also limited by the transformers used, which introduce further distortion, phase changes, and HF rolloff.

 

You are still living in the last century if you believe that good quality solid state amplifiers sound dry or edgy.

A good SS amplifier, especially a Class A amplifier, has a NATURAL warmth to the sound, not governed by gobs of even order distortion products.

 

Class A helps a lot for solid state, but it still doesn't sound like a tube amp.

 

I have lived with good quality high end  class A amplifiers and good quality high end SETs.  My current set up includes an ultra high bandwidth solid state amp with an unweighted SNR of 120, which is rather rare, since most SS designs really don't come close to the 115 you mentioned.  Of course, your distortion figures are sort of like a big foot sighting, as well, since they are pretty rare at best in the real world of actually driving a speaker.  I actually have heard in my room a higher resolution set up that most people never hear at the dealer or shows, and am basing my observations on experience, and not what I think make sense.

 

If you think Bryston, Pass Labs, First Watt, Naim, Audio Research, and Linnenberg solid state gear all sucks and lacks warmth, I am open to suggestions.  

 

Please do so by way of a first hand comparison with a good 45 SET playing into a  proper speaker load, so I will have some reference point.

 

By the way, nothing wrong with the last century.  I was younger, faster, stronger, and most importantly pain free.

[Kimo]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Thank God for that !

 I don't want artificial colouration, I want to hear the recording as close as possible to the way the artists and Recording Engineer intended.

 Your own statement sums it up nicely.

 

 

We shouldn't discuss further.  You will need to come to Cleveland to listen to the Rogers and Linnenberg for proof.  If you guys make it, I will provide the alcohol as well. 

[Kimo]

31 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 I have no interest whatsoever in revisiting  SET amplifiers. .

BTW, my DIY Class A Preamp is only 3dB down at 1.5MHz, and <.0006% distortion  Is that ultra wide bandwidth enough for you ?

 

As one and a half said " kindly take this to another thread." 

 

Well if you are going to be that way, I kindly rescind my offer.  Fas42 can have your beer.