Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[davide256]

17 hours ago, di-fi said:

Did you? How to fill to 98% (not that it seems useful) . Long before that I get a message « x tracks in buffer, x amount of free space left ».

 

After setting buffer to 1GB on server I could not change it back to 6,7 or 8 GB. No matter how many times I rebooted. All the time getting the message « 0 tracks in buffer » when playing an album.
To resolve I had to downgrade Euphony and reinstall the latest version again to make buffer album work.

 

 

Had deleted all my PGGB files in favor of HQPlayer, will rerip something tonight for testing. Could partially fill my Atom endpoint buffer to 44% with a DSD256 track but kept getting a file write error + stop of play at the endpoint, different from what I saw before with PCM

[davide256]

@di-fi

 

results below using Atom Stylus version 4 endpoint with 4gb RAM in bit perfect mode playing PGGB 768/32 up-sampled files

 

Files sizes & error message

 

 

starting memory utilization was about 6% , playing other songs gives errors at between 43-56% download completion.

Looks like something has changed to require more reserved memory for OS use.

 

[davide256]

6 hours ago, di-fi said:

Different experiences can only add to the discussion. How optimised and isolated an Endpoint can be? In theory a dual (fast and slow) processor doing different tasks in optimised units should have an advantage. Maybe a single server can sound better due to the limited buffer capacity used for the Endpoint in a dual set up?  Whole album buffering vs. track buffering and traffic going on during album playing in dual setup.

It seems Euphony did not exploit buffer management on the Endpoint side so hard to tell until it becomes available. 

buffer variable on endpoint settings behaves the sames as at the server. Defaults to 50% of allowable RAM unless you enter a value to override. The difference

is that on server side one may queue tracks up to the limit of allowed buffer, on endpoint side server controls buffer fill which at most is current track + start of next track.

It does appear that 8GB is the sweet spot for a Stylus endpoint to accommodate up to 4GB in track file size. Playing  PGGB files with my gaming PC as Stylus endpoint

(normal/ not RAM mode) and a 3GB 768/32 file utilized 14% of 32GB RAM, or about 4.5 GB.

 

I do note that with 16GB RAM on server and RAM mode I occasionally get incomplete buffering because of buffer size exceeded, most commonly

if I try to queue/buffer 2 DSD albums

[davide256]

13 hours ago, Tatang said:

So in euphony v4, the setup is optimized for 1 machine operation. Adding EP probably will only increase SQ in small margin or probably can decrease SQ because of intens network traffic between server and EP??

Endpoints are useful for distributed playback: 1 server, many rooms you could be in. Stylus is not an ideal solution for this because it does require more resources in an endpoint

than other solutions like Roon or HQPlayer.  The combination of Stylus server + HQPe ==> NAA is very effective.

[davide256]

7 hours ago, MM said:

Upgraded to 5.0 via Euphony last night.  Big improvement in CPU load.  

But will require buying a new license for 5.0 upgrade.

[davide256]

Does anyone know why external HQPlayer shows twice?   HQPe + UPnP typically has issues with hanging on delayed resume, wondering

if HQPe has a second/better control protocol since I don't see the hang issue using the non UPnP instance of HQPe in Stylus

example below

 

[davide256]

2 hours ago, c-w said:

 

Is your hqp also an upnp output?

Native HQPe OS image will always show up as UPnP device which can be handily controlled using UPnP controllers or with Bubble UPnP to proxy for Open Home

controllers. I've seen this second HQPe  instance (non UPnP) with Stylus booting different machines as HQPe server

[davide256]

4 hours ago, c-w said:

 

So I guess Euphony finds it twice: first over direct hqp protocol and then also over upnp protocol.

Must be it. Roon avoids UPnP but can control an external HQP server if you provide IP address.

[davide256]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:16 AM, al2813 said:

Hi everybody, as I am setting up my own company, I have been planning on renovating part of home network including replacing my NAS. Has anyone ever tried running Euphony on a NAS (I will be using Assustor NAS that can be powered by a linear power supply)? Also has anyone using a 2 tier Euphony setup (server and end point) placed the server outside their Audio LAN. I assume Euphony will run as a virtual machine on the NAS (is this even possible?). 

Nope. Euphony image doesn’t give you CLI access to install other applications. Its locked down

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Oskar said:

Hi,

I don't expect any help as I couldn't find any satisfactory information on how to make a V4 install usb key. I just want to share my disappointments if it can still be of interest to someone. Obviously I have already called the after-sales service which kindly sent me twice to the installation page of the site. I received a message today to launch the latest update. I started the update. Then it came back to the same update message, so I thought I had to do a reboot. Big mistake. Since then the system has crashed and it is impossible to restart Euphony. I must have screwed up and broken something. 

I understood that I had to restore my Euphony startup disk. it doesn't work, booting to the key only gives me these three options:
- Euphony-audio kernel
- Reboot
- Power off
and then I got the message below .

I'm not a newbie and everything is set up fine in the BIOS. R Devcic doesn't understand anything about it and tells me to redo a USB key (of course that's all I have to do).

I give up ! I used three different keys, formatted in Fat 32 as indicated, with or without partition, with Rufus the same as on the site, with Etcher too: always the same crap. Whereas with V3 I had no problem. In short, too bad I made a bad manipulation and no backtracking possible. Finally I returned to Jplay Femto and my Windows disk (which I did well to keep), there it works and it sounds better!

The error message tells it all, the boot disk is corrupted. Best practice is to use a downloaded euphony disk image, create

a new USB boot drive and use your registration key to exit trial mode. If your original boot disk is HD/SSD you can then use the

USB boot disk install/restore option to try to repair the original boot drive.

[davide256]

In the FWIW column I've decided to move on from Euphony. For some time now its been a mixed blessing, great transient cues, nice mid range timbre.

But with the DAC's I have at hand the treble region with massed instruments becomes inchoate, the sort of defect that makes you avoid Tchaikowsky pieces,.

HQPe v4 with DSD up-sampling has proven much more enjoyable and Audirvana Studio as player feeding HQPe has proven more stable/reliable with

a much lower annual subscription cost.

 

[davide256]

3 minutes ago, Smaragdhk said:

@davide256, can you elaborate a bit more? Are you having HQPe on a single endpoint as e.g an Intel NUC and streaming from Audirvāna Studio from a Laptip? So that would be a 2 devices setup? What OS is HQPe running on?

Win10 i5 PC running Audirvana Studio streaming via UPNP

11i3 NUC running HQPe 4.35 AVX linux image with DSD 128/DSD256 up-sampling

 

Played around with using Euphony as server on both machines feeding separate HQPe but could find no advantage doing so versus using Audirvana.

The i5 PC allows more DSD up sampling power but isn't optimized for USB out, a typical gaming machine

 

Audirvana Studio has an "off hook" feature for changing device settings that  so far has flawlessly reset the HQP connection

whenever a UPNP hang after long pause has occurred. Whereas with Euphony one has to jump back and forth between HQP interface

and Stylus to get things playing again.

 

Possible that if  i had a much better DAC Euphony might win out in NOS mode but in no hurry at this point to shell out $2~3k

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

When you said inchoate is that what you meant or incoherent? I've found that with Euphony, sometimes the sound of instruments can get smeared. A euphonic blend so to speak instead of defined clarity. 

inchoate = partially formed. Massed high strings sound like a bright blob, no inner resolution  that allows you to distinguish it is multiple instruments. And a touch of digititus

that makes playing the piece unpleasant. Smear is a reasonable description, where you can make out the intended structure  but the resolution

is like a cheap copy of a Waterford crystal, chromatically wrong, rounded edges.

 

I do wonder if some of this is from sub $1k DAC  limitations for PCM treble D-A artifact filters. And this is using NOS mode for

Stylus, haven't liked the built in Stylus up-sampling options

 

[davide256]

29 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I ask because DbPoweramp will rip your CD and verify that it matches with the accurate rip database. It also allows you to manage where you get your metadata from, change it if you want, edit the cover art, etc... and I don't know if Euphony allows any of that. Having been down this road and learned my lessons the hard way. Rip your CDs right the first time.

 

I rip with one of these: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MR3UBDRW16/

no fancy audiophile ripper, no USB cleaners, none of that. DbPoweramp ensures I get an accurate rip.

and meta tag search is also important, dbpoweramp accesses several freeware databases and I often merge results to get whats most useful to me

[davide256]

5 hours ago, brucew said:

What is unclear to me is if I set music to buffer to RAM and get an industrial grade Apacer RAM, does Optane do me any good, or are they alternate approaches to SQ, practically speaking? Separately powering HDD/SDD or RAM is not an option for me.

I think you are confusing RAM boot with buffer to RAM. RAM boot and Optane drive boot are functionally similar, which sounds better will

depend on the HW design of the machine, ie which contaminates the power supply bus with less noise during use.  RAM buffer is a convenience

for album/playlist playback. and can be used to minimize network activity during local playback. Since Optane as a drive has become an obsolete feature,

Apacer memory with an Intel 670P SSD is a good option.

 

 

[davide256]

34 minutes ago, brucew said:

 

If booting to RAM, then in theory an Optane drive would have little further effect I guess. If booting to an Optane drive but buffering files to RAM, then the Optane relates to OS/software related overhead and noise and perhaps cache but not to the difference bewteen buffered & non-buffered files.

 

I didn't realise that Optane as a drive is obsolete. I've been seeing some for sale and thought I'd seen 11th gen NUC's spec'd to be compatible. (my budget lives closer to the NUC world than more configurable ITX, etc.)

I couldn't get an 11i3 NUC to recognize 32gb of Optane memory that I'd used in an 8 series NUC as a drive. There are still some

Optane SSD's floating around, those should work but avoid the hybrid ones.

 

 

[davide256]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:52 PM, brucew said:

So when the 1135G7 specs say it supports Optane Memory, it means hybrid?

"Intel® Optane™ memory is a revolutionary new class of non-volatile memory that sits in between system memory and storage to accelerate system performance and responsiveness. When combined with the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology Driver, it seamlessly manages multiple tiers of storage while presenting one virtual drive to the OS, ensuring that data frequently used resides on the fastest tier of storage. "

Hybrid optane drives use a small amount of optane memory for i/o buffer to traditional ssd storage

[davide256]

6 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

My subscription is about to run out.

I don’t remember if it is automatic renewal, or if my credit card information has changed where I can update it.

 

What process did you go through to renew, please?

Just go to the system page where your license and expiration date is listed. There is a manage license link there to launch a browser page for updating your credit card info or discontinuing the license renewal

[davide256]

19 hours ago, organics1 said:

Renewed Euphony yesterday. Like that's it's a lightweight Linux distro, as opposed to all the crap you go through installing Windows-based stuff. I don't put a lot of demands on it because my system isn't very sophisticated (and neither am I 😄), but the network disconnect with play&relax brings a major improvement in SQ, and I like that most of all. Though for me it's implementation is too cumbersome.

 

B-U-U-U-UT, yesterday also saw me dropping a new hard drive into the NUC, on which I installed Audirvana Origin AND all the attendant crap. That includes Fidelizer. The network disconnect thing is what drew me in. Sounds REALLY good. For now, keeping both, and we'll see which way the wind blows. Euphony still feels like a good deal.

I've begun the long process (read that, MONEY) of pulling together the vast array of bits needed for a big ATX server, and since SSDs are so easily changed I'll have three or more for switching back and forth between the different players.

I was never able to resolve  issues in the treble using Stylus, issues  that disappeared using HQPe  compared in NOS mode. And it took a long time

for me to appreciate HQP in up sample mode, things really didn't click until I switched to class D GaN mono blocks.  The issue with HQP

is that its too limited for use as a library server, much better user experience with Roon or Audirvana providing the library/control point

feeding a separate HQP server for up-sampling

 

[davide256]

17 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said:

Is there anyway to connect a Euphony Endpoint (Intel Atom/JCAT XE USB) to a Windows 10 server via straight ethernet cable to the Euphony Endpoint?  Something like people use to do when they would bridge ethernet ports on a single PC and out to a microRendu.

 

I am not talking about bridging Euphony Server to Euphony Endpoint... 

 

I am wanting to run my Roon Rock > Windows 10 server > Euphony Endpoint (Intel Atom/JCAT XE USB) without a switch via straight ethernet cable.  

 

I don't think I can but I want to be sure before I bring the switch back in.  

 

 

 

 

Haven't tried it myself but a couple of thoughts on it

 

1) You would need a dual NIC card at the PC if using wired Ethernet. The connection to the endpoint would have to be configured as a static IP on both sides

2) would need to enable internet sharing on the Roon server to avoid Euphony license validation handshake issues

 

static IP should be trivial on the Euphony endpoint side, the" heavy lifting" is all on the Roon rock server side configuration/hw

[davide256]

5 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said:

I just found this.. The HQPlayer to Euphony Endpoint is broken for good it seems.  I can still use Euphony Endpoint via Squeezebox protocol no problem and it sounds really, really good so the simplest thing, Roon > Euphony Endpoint is very reliable.  I think I am letting go of my Euphony Server and just staying with the Endpoint.  Thank God I can relax and just listen to some music now.. 😅

 

Jussi wasn't sure what was up with my dilemma.  I might try to dual boot my endpoint with HQP NAA and try that for comparision.  

 

 Roon->HQPlayer playback and Roon->StylusEP playback (via HQPlayer protocol)

Due to recent changes in Roon playback From Roon to HQPlayer is no longer possible.
Playback from Roon to StylusEP via HQPlayer protocol is also not possible.

Playback from Roon to StylusEP is still possible via Squeezebox protocol. If StylusEP does not show automatically in Roon as Squeezebox device you have to enable Squeezebox in Roon client.

 Both issues are caused by Roon requiring a specific minimum version of HQPlayer (4.29). Roon requires this in order to check if the endpoint at the other end is a genuine HQPlayer program.

Since HQPlayer stopped being compatible with Euphony OS v3 somewhere around version 4.24 we cannot provide required HQPlayer binary so Roon->HQPlayer playback is broken. We will solve this issue in upcoming v4 where we can install and use the latest HQPlayer versions.

Roon->StylusEP playback via HQPlayer protocol cannot be fixed at all. Roon just doesn't want to communicate via HQP protocol with anything but the original HQPlayer. Please use StylusEP via Squeezebox protocol.
 

 

I always found it better to use Jussi's NAA image, NAA under Euphony environment often took reboots of  both Stylus/HQPe and NAA machines to find,

fewer problems finding the NAA with Jussi's images

 

 

[davide256]

6 minutes ago, Evo-No-Revo said:

 

I want to try that.  I am not sure how hard it is to put the NAA image on my little Atom computer.  

 

 

...

 

 

 

Its easy. I have a 4gb Atom with Stylus endpoint that I boot also from NAA image

 

1) insure boot from USB is enabled in BIOS, make sure its before any HD in boot order

2) download and extract latest version of Rufus to flash your USB stick ( at least 8GB)

  its solely an executable, no program install

3) download latest NAA image from HQP site and extract image

4) use Rufus to find extracted image and flash USB drive

5) boot off USB stick, should only take a minute or 2

6) start HQP and verify that when choosing network vs local DAC you can see the NAA and any attached DAC choice

 

If HQP can't see the NAA, I use a Windows program called Advanced IP Scanner to see if the NAA is on network. If its not

on network you need to connect it to a monitor and see whats happening during boot up. WIth Advanced IP Scanner

you need to enter you subnet for first scan (192.168.1.xxx, etc).