AudioDoctor Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I didn't even know a song could have this little dynamic range... No electron left behind. Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 5:40 PM, AudioDoctor said: I didn't even know a song could have this little dynamic range... That "Dynamic Range" value reflects the R128 "Loudness Range" for the track. It is not the same as the number from DR Meter. For example, one track I have from The Band measures 12 on the DR Meter and 3 in R128 loudness units. Also, note that a linear relation between the two measures does not exist. AudioDoctor 1 mQa is dead! Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 Ok, that clears it up a bit. Thanks. I like your avatar! No electron left behind. Link to comment
diecaster Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 The MAAT DR Meter value is of more interest to us audio folks as it gives a better idea of the actual dynamic range swing in the track. The R128 value is more important for broadcasting engineers. http://indierecordingdepot.com/t/maat-tt-dr-recreation-vs-lufs/1560/6 AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, diecaster said: The MAAT DR Meter value is of more interest to us audio folks as it gives a better idea of the actual dynamic range swing in the track. The R128 value is more important for broadcasting engineers. http://indierecordingdepot.com/t/maat-tt-dr-recreation-vs-lufs/1560/6 The DR Meter value is much simpler to comprehend. However, you can have a fairly quiet track with little dynamic shift that happens to have one outlier peak hitting a high dbfs value resulting in a high DR Meter value but very deceiving. Sometimes I like to see the actual wave graphic. AudioDoctor 1 mQa is dead! Link to comment
The_K-Man Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 5:57 PM, lucretius said: The DR Meter value is much simpler to comprehend. However, you can have a fairly quiet track with little dynamic shift that happens to have one outlier peak hitting a high dbfs value resulting in a high DR Meter value but very deceiving. Sometimes I like to see the actual wave graphic. "Pay no attention to the 'DR' values" "Stop looking at the sausage-shaped waveforms, and... "USE YOUR EARS"! Says many a mastering engineer, on moderated forums like Head-Fi, GearSlutz, and on Usenet groups like Rec.Audio.Pro. 🙄 Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 hours ago, The_K-Man said: "USE YOUR EARS"! Says many a mastering engineer, on moderated forums like Head-Fi, GearSlutz, and on Usenet groups like Rec.Audio.Pro. 🙄 That's difficult to do when deciding on which version of an album to purchase. Also, it's useful to know if the peak hit 0.0 dbfs. mQa is dead! Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 My goto for deliberately engineered extreme dynamic range would have to be the soundtrack for Moulin Rouge - don't know if they toned this down in later versions, but this is certainly a system buster, if you adjust gain by a quiet passage. Link to comment
The_K-Man Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, lucretius said: Also, it's useful to know if the peak hit 0.0 dbfs. Actually, average or RMS is closer to perceived loudness than peaks. Although it is more common now for peak levels, as mastered, to be constantly at or close to full scale. Engineers know now that consumers have unprecedented access to DAW software, even in mobile form, so their audio 'magic' is being exposed, arming music fans in their opposition to loudness war processing. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Ok, so then does this R128 number of 16 mean the album has more Dynamic Range? No electron left behind. Link to comment
diecaster Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 It all depends on the album. Here are the MAAT DR Meter results of the MFSL CD of Supertramp's Crime Of The Century: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed Folder: /Volumes/Audio/Ripped Tracks/Supertramp/Crime Of The Century/Crime Of The Century_dr.txt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR16 -2.77 dB -24.37 dB 01 Supertramp - School.flac DR17 -6.03 dB -25.58 dB 02 Supertramp - Bloody Well Right.flac DR17 -1.62 dB -23.02 dB 03 Supertramp - Hide In Your Shell.flac DR16 -3.07 dB -24.35 dB 04 Supertramp - Asylum.flac DR14 -4.60 dB -24.70 dB 05 Supertramp - Dreamer.flac DR16 -4.36 dB -25.99 dB 06 Supertramp - Rudy.flac DR17 -1.56 dB -26.15 dB 07 Supertramp - If Everyone Was Listening.flac DR16 -4.67 dB -24.61 dB 08 Supertramp - Crime Of The Century.flac ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of Files: 8 Official DR Value: DR16 ============================================================================================== The R128 dynamic range is ~19. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 DR Meter is essentially the difference between peak and average loudness. R128 uses average and loudness variation, along with other stuff like equal loudness curves, and I'm not sure how its algorithm calculates the final number from those. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Same album and song, in A+ 3.2.15 No electron left behind. Link to comment
The_K-Man Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 43 minutes ago, diecaster said: It all depends on the album. Here are the MAAT DR Meter results of the MFSL CD of Supertramp's Crime Of The Century: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed Folder: /Volumes/Audio/Ripped Tracks/Supertramp/Crime Of The Century/Crime Of The Century_dr.txt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR16 -2.77 dB -24.37 dB 01 Supertramp - School.flac DR17 -6.03 dB -25.58 dB 02 Supertramp - Bloody Well Right.flac DR17 -1.62 dB -23.02 dB 03 Supertramp - Hide In Your Shell.flac DR16 -3.07 dB -24.35 dB 04 Supertramp - Asylum.flac DR14 -4.60 dB -24.70 dB 05 Supertramp - Dreamer.flac DR16 -4.36 dB -25.99 dB 06 Supertramp - Rudy.flac DR17 -1.56 dB -26.15 dB 07 Supertramp - If Everyone Was Listening.flac DR16 -4.67 dB -24.61 dB 08 Supertramp - Crime Of The Century.flac ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of Files: 8 Official DR Value: DR16 ============================================================================================== The R128 dynamic range is ~19. Ahh, thanks for encapsulating the measurement results of the two different tools! It reminds me of what the regulars on Head-Fi explained: The MAAT(and its predecessor TT) DR Meter measures only a limited portion of the mid-upper peaks of the songs' total loudness, since it is measuring specifically the evidence of and effects on dynamic range by certain mastering practices. IE: Loudness practices like overcompression and brickwall limiting. The R128 tool - could you please provide the name of the measurement code ? - seems to measure the total loudness (not just dynamic)range of a given song or album, hence the higher values you indicated. Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, The_K-Man said: Actually, average or RMS is closer to perceived loudness than peaks. Although it is more common now for peak levels, as mastered, to be constantly at or close to full scale. Engineers know now that consumers have unprecedented access to DAW software, even in mobile form, so their audio 'magic' is being exposed, arming music fans in their opposition to loudness war processing. When looking at the dbFS meter, my concern is clipping, not loudness. mQa is dead! Link to comment
The_K-Man Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, lucretius said: When looking at the dbFS meter, my concern is clipping, not loudness. Well welcome to the 21st century production scene - it's one big CLIP-FEST.. bwahahahah! (Just my assessment, not an endorsement of this nonsense) Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 MATT (makers of DR Meter and DROffline) said this on their website: Unlike R128 and BS. 1770 meters, DR measures dynamic range from the perspective of a music engineer’s needs. In contrast, R128 and 1770 are designed to control loudness for commercials, not measure dynamic range for music, especially pop music. DR isn’t designed for broadcast loudness control, it’s purpose is to gauge the amount of dynamic range reduction, or the absence of dynamic range contrast. Designed by a member of the EBU ploud committee, the same body that created R128, DR informs an engineer about how much the mix is being or has been “stepped on,” dynamic range-wise, not about “will it pass through a broadcast chain without loudness reduction?” The_K-Man 1 mQa is dead! Link to comment
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