Static noise on electrostatic speakers.

[spike9876]

Hi,

 

So I have a Sanders Sound Electrostatic Speakers...  I have all components connected to a Denon Receiver via HDMI.

If I turn on my PC, I get a slight noise coming from electrostatic speakers.  Hard to describe the noise... When I play any audio/movie I don't hear noise ( I suppose the volume is higher than the slight noise I get).

 

Even if I switch components... let's say if I switch Receiver to my BluRay player... I still hear noise... The noise goes away only if turn PC off.

 

I have always thought, maybe noise may be coming from power supply and it is somehow transferred to receiver... dunno....

This has been going on since i switched to these electrostatic speakers.  When I had normal speakers, I did not hear this noise...

 

Any ideas ??

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[fas42]

Have you experimented with changing where you plug in the PC, or the mains plug for the speakers; or used an extremely long extension cord with one or the other? If doing this changes the noise, then you have clues as to what is going on.

[spike9876]

2 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Have you experimented with changing where you plug in the PC, or the mains plug for the speakers; or used an extremely long extension cord with one or the other? If doing this changes the noise, then you have clues as to what is going on.

This is an interesting comment/suggestion...

The only thing is that I moved about a year ago and I have same issue after the move.  I don't think it affects plugs for speakers because it only happens when I turn on my HTPC.  I used to connect power cord for PC to a power strip but currently plugging power cord directly to electrical outlet.  I don't it will solve the issue since I had same issue in a different location... But I will experiment connecting to a different electrical outlet....

 

Also, I do have a gaming desktop... I will move my gaming desktop PC to my HTPC location and switch PC's and see if I have same issue.

[spike9876]

I have an update:

 

I actually had my HTPC power plug connected to a power strip.

I moved HTPC power plug directly to electrical outlet.  Restarted.  I was very surprised.  Noise was much WORSE !!!! It reminded me of watching movies where they have a radio scanner looking for a frequency.... Noise was like x5 worse (maybe more).  Next I used a 6ft extension cord and connected HTPC.  Noise was like plugging directly to electrical outlet but subdued.  Connecting back to a power strip was much much better.

 

Actually, connecting HTPC to power strip... I hardly hear the noise now....  Before, I did have my cable modem router connected to same power strip....  Actually, I don't hear any static noise now.... OMG !!!!   

 

Before I start celebrating.... I'm going to use my HTPC for a few days before I celebrate....

But seems to me that connecting PC to a power strip and having other devices connected to same power strip.... somehow electrical  noise is getting picked up.... I do see that the power strip does say that it has a noise filter.

 

Maybe my solution is to buy a proper electrical noise filter ??  The power strip that I have must be > 7yrs old.

[Ralf11]

do you have a router anywhere nearby?

[STC]

17 minutes ago, spike9876 said:

Before I start celebrating.... I'm going to use my HTPC for a few days before I celebrate....

But seems to me that connecting PC to a power strip and having other devices connected to same power strip.... somehow electrical  noise is getting picked up.... I do see that the power strip does say that it has a noise filter.

 

My speaker manufacturer (SoundLab) recommend them connect directly to the wall. You need good ground to keep away the noise.

[spike9876]

13 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

do you have a router anywhere nearby?

Yes, I do....

[spike9876]

10 minutes ago, STC said:

 

My speaker manufacturer (SoundLab) recommend them connect directly to the wall. You need good ground to keep away the noise.

I get so much noise connecting to the wall directly.... that its not funny.  On the same electrical outlet there are 2 sockets. On the other socket I have most of my other devices connected.  Maybe I get so much noise because of this ?

 

When I connected my extension cord, I did use a different electrical outlet... but noted that is more subdued but noisier than when I had it connected directly to outlet.

 

Yes, I do believe I need to ground properly the HTPC.... But how do I do that ?

BTW, i do still hear electrical noise... but it is so much better than before.... Before it was constant but now I heard it once in the last 5 mins and I have not heard it again....  So, in reality i still have some noise but it is hardly noticeable.

 

[Daccord]

Set it up again the way you had it when you were getting constant noise. Unplug devices one at a time until the noise stops. When the noise stops, you know which device to replace (or at least isolate).

[spike9876]

3 minutes ago, Daccord said:

Set it up again the way you had it when you were getting constant noise. Unplug devices one at a time until the noise stops. When the noise stops, you know which device to replace (or at least isolate).

 

I started to look at ground looping issues for PC... and found a youtube video where my exact problem is described except his issue seem to occur when he does some action on PC and mine was constant.  You can jump to the 3min mark he details his issue. 

 

He uses a ground loop isolator to solve his issue... but He uses a RCA cable with ground loop isolator but I connect using a HDMI cable to get audio and video...

 

Still investigating the ground loop isolator.

 

[STC]

13 minutes ago, spike9876 said:

I get so much noise connecting to the wall directly.... that its not funny.  On the same electrical outlet there are 2 sockets. On the other socket I have most of my other devices connected.  Maybe I get so much noise because of this ?

 

 

Try reducing the bias. It should be fine as long as your amp could drive them.

 

As long as your ground (earth ) is good enough I don't think it should make a difference. I have one socket with a dedicated ground (12 foot rod) and other socket shared to the rest of the house. Either socket is noise free.

 

13 minutes ago, spike9876 said:

 

When I connected my extension cord, I did use a different electrical outlet... but noted that is more subdued but noisier than when I had it connected directly to outlet.

 

Yes, I do believe I need to ground properly the HTPC.... But how do I do that ?

BTW, i do still hear electrical noise... but it is so much better than before.... Before it was constant but now I heard it once in the last 5 mins and I have not heard it again....  So, in reality i still have some noise but it is hardly noticeable.

 

 

If the noise is higher when the PC, DAC or Amp or anything that is connected before the speakers is turned off than the problem is elsewhere. Just try reducing the bias and see if you can get rid of the noise. 

 

[spike9876]

Quote

Try reducing the bias. It should be fine as long as your amp could drive them.

What is bias ?

 

Quote

If the noise is higher when the PC, DAC or Amp or anything that is connected before the speakers is turned off than the problem is elsewhere. Just try reducing the bias and see if you can get rid of the noise. 

I connected PC to wall then disconnected router, sub and amp for bass driver and electrical noise did not change much.

Not sure what is the bias... 

 

Currently researching ground looping.

[Ralf11]

" a radio scanner looking for a frequency..."  ---> router, most likely

[STC]

46 minutes ago, spike9876 said:

What is bias ?

 

For Sanders, it is probably the gain. Try a lower value and see if it reduces the noise. 

[spike9876]

48 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

" a radio scanner looking for a frequency..."  ---> router, most likely

Nope, I disconnected my router and no difference.

[Ralf11]

ok, disconnect something else

[fas42]

What I'm seeing so far is that the Sanders speakers are not happy if they have little isolation from the HTPC, with respect to the mains supply; my next experiment would be to distance the HTPC electrically from the speaker mains circuit as much as possible, say by using a separate spur, and connecting in your best noise filtering devices where it plugs in. IOW, stop the HTPC disturbing the mains being used by your audio rig.

[spike9876]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

What I'm seeing so far is that the Sanders speakers are not happy if they have little isolation from the HTPC, with respect to the mains supply; my next experiment would be to distance the HTPC electrically from the speaker mains circuit as much as possible, say by using a separate spur, and connecting in your best noise filtering devices where it plugs in. IOW, stop the HTPC disturbing the mains being used by your audio rig.

Yes, I agree...

I only have a 6ft extension cord in my apt... and when I used it last night, I used a different outlet... but it was in the same room where I have my setup ( and probably using the same electrical breaker).  I do have a 50ft extension cord in a different location.  Today I will get it and experiment with different wall outlets in my apt... probably the furthest outlet I can find.... I actually have 2 rooms where no electronics are connected to outlets.... so those rooms I will try first.

 

If that doesn't work... Then I will look to buy the best noise filter I can find... but I have a feeling that the above step will work.

 

 

[spike9876]

9 hours ago, spike9876 said:

Yes, I agree...

I only have a 6ft extension cord in my apt... and when I used it last night, I used a different outlet... but it was in the same room where I have my setup ( and probably using the same electrical breaker).  I do have a 50ft extension cord in a different location.  Today I will get it and experiment with different wall outlets in my apt... probably the furthest outlet I can find.... I actually have 2 rooms where no electronics are connected to outlets.... so those rooms I will try first.

 

If that doesn't work... Then I will look to buy the best noise filter I can find... but I have a feeling that the above step will work.

 

 

Update:

 

Got with me a 50ft extension & a cheater plug (small adapter that converts the grounded 3-pin connector on the power cord to a 2-pin connector.)

 

Below are the steps I did.

1. Used a 50ft extension cord and connected HTPC to the living room... (I don't have any electronics in that room besides a fan that was not running.  Static/Hum is present.  -- Does not make any sense to put a new line in room and the problem is not the line.

 

2.  Removed all power cords from power conditioner and put all components including HTPC on power strips.  Static/Hum is present.  -- Power conditioner appears to have no effect.

 

3.  Purchased a "cheater plug".  Did not make any sense to try each component so I went straight to the HTPC and tested.  With the cheater plug, connected the HTPC directly to wall outlet.  Static/Hum is gone.

 

Problem solved !!!!