Innuos Zen MK III - New Roon "Experimental" firmware

[JFHSQT]

On Friday my Innuos Zen MK III was delivered & I've finally gotten some time to experiment with different configurations over the past day.

 

I have some questions about what I'm hearing and what's happening and figured this would be a good place to ask.

 

First I have a Luxman DA-06 DAC, a great DAC with one weird idiosyncrasy - whenever it changes sample/bitrate format it has a mechanical "click" and there's a millisecond of track that is missed. Since I normally listen to mixed playlists of high res and redbook formats (both files and Tidal streaming), I have gotten around this by upsampling everything in Roon to DSD128 ... My 2012 Mac Mini Core handled this fine as does the new Zen MK III.

 

I initially setup the Zen MK III with Roon as the Core and set the DSP to upsample to DSD as described above and everything sounds great. I have noticed a definite improvement over the Mac Mini in the weight of the sound, it seems to have more presence and the soundstage seems improved. Plus the implementation and use of the Innuos system is an all-around amazing experience. 

Now I have begun experimenting with the system configuration with "Use as Roon Core with Squeezelite Player (Experimental)" and I am wondering exactly what the system is doing and how it is operating. I have enabled SB emulation in Roon and set the Luxman as a Squeezelite player and it is working fine. 

 

The only DSD upsampling option in this config is DSD64, so I have "Enable DSD Native Processing" and everything has been running smoothly on the Innuos. If I mess around with the signal filter settings or Delta Sigma Modulator settings, the Innuos does trip up and playback stutters like crazy.

 

BUT what I am hearing with the "Roon Core with SL Player (Experimental)" configuration, upsampling to DSD64 sounds EVEN BETTER than the regular Roon Core config and upsampling to DSD128. 

 

The music has more detail, depth and physicality using this config. Initially I tested this with Pat Metheny's "Alfie" and the difference between the two was very apparent, since it's just an acoustic guitar plucking. With the Squeezelite player enabled, the guitar notes had more texture, they had more dimension in the soundstage, and seemed to harmonically "ring" out into the room than with the regular Core integration. 

 

I'm currently testing with Diana Krall's Christmas record, and experiencing the same thing - particularly with bass and vocals. The double bass has more control and presence, and Krall's vocal is more intimate and forward (with a slight increase in sibilance). 

 

So that's a long way to my question which is - does anyone know what is happening with the beta firmware setting of Roon Core with SL Player? What is different from running the regular Roon Core config and why am I hearing an improvement in SQ? 

 

 

[thyname]

I second this! I have the new ZENITH MK3, and Roon via LMS (SqueezeLite experimental) sounds noticeably better than “regular “ Roon. Not subtle.

 

Not sure what’s going on, but it must be the internal RAM memory player on Innuos.

 

It does have a few hiccups, tracks skipping once in a while, but works great most of the time.

 

I realize that Innuos owners pool is relatively small, but I encourage everyone to try.

[flummoxe]

11 hours ago, thyname said:

I second this! I have the new ZENITH MK3, and Roon via LMS (SqueezeLite experimental) sounds noticeably better than “regular “ Roon. Not subtle.

 

Not sure what’s going on, but it must be the internal RAM memory player on Innuos.

 

It does have a few hiccups, tracks skipping once in a while, but works great most of the time.

 

I realize that Innuos owners pool is relatively small, but I encourage everyone to try.

 

I concur with the previous posters.

 

I'm running the SqeezeLite option on my Zenith SE and it's a clear improvement in SQ.

 

Some track skipping but well worth the minor inconvenience, and i'm sure Nuno and the team will get that sorted in time.

[#Yoda#]

Getting curious by your posts, I've tried the Roon Core with Squeezelite Player (Experimental) option today.

 

Unfortunately I cannot really state something reliable about soundquality because there had been permanent dropouts and skipping on all albums I've tried.

Given the instructions from Innuos to disable any other players "connected to Roon Core", it is no option for me anyway. The multiroom function with different hardware in the "zones" is essential for me.

 

I'll stay with the Zenith as Roon Core and an Ethernet connection to my "Roon Ready" Ayre EX-8 as Endpoint for now and hope that the Qobuz implementation into Roon is coming soon. 

[thyname]

13 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

Getting curious by your posts, I've tried the Roon Core with Squeezelite Player (Experimental) option today.

 

Unfortunately I cannot really state something reliable about soundquality because there had been permanent dropouts and skipping on all albums I've tried.

Given the instructions from Innuos to disable any other players "connected to Roon Core", it is no option for me anyway. The multiroom function with different hardware in the "zones" is essential for me.

 

‘Manual refers to this part of connection (see picture). Connected directly to Core

 

Do you have anything else connected to your ZENith other than the DAC you are using now?

 

It skips once in a while, but not so often

[#Yoda#]

23 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

‘Manual refers to this part of connection (see picture). Connected directly to Core

 

Do you have anything else connected to your ZENith other than the DAC you are using now?

 

It skips once in a while, but not so often

@thyname Thank you for your hint, maybe I misunderstood the meaning of "connected to Core" and missed the specific topic in the settings.

Beside the EX-8, an Auralic Aries is connected to the core via Ethernet as "Roon Ready" device and quite soon my old Linn Majik DS as well again. 

Anyway, I'll wait for an advanced version of this for sure interesting option, but the dropouts in nearly each track and repeatedly skipping on most albums are not acceptable for daily use.

[thyname]

Connected via Ethernet is different than connected to Core @#Yoda#

 

Those two devices should be fine as they are unde “network “ part of the connection.

 

Have you activated ZENITH under SqueezeLite group?

 

 

 

[#Yoda#]

Yes, I did. I'll wait for the Ayre/ConversDigital streaming board update and a stable version of the InnuOS firmware concerning the Squeezelite player and will hear if there is really a perceivable difference in sound quality then. I'll wait and see (listen). 

[noel.gregoire]

good morning everybody, 

 

 i have a innuos zenith MKII with roon core installed .  the innuos is connected to a roon ready player bricasti M5  connected to a classé sigma 2200 i  (FDA) which have a network player integrated (not roon ready)

 

i'd like to know if with   the new firmware  roon core with SL  i could connect directly the innuos to the streamer and play music with roon remote ?

 

 

[thyname]

1 hour ago, noel.gregoire said:

good morning everybody, 

 

 i have a innuos zenith MKII with roon core installed .  the innuos is connected to a roon ready player bricasti M5  connected to a classé sigma 2200 i  (FDA) which have a network player integrated (not roon ready)

 

i'd like to know if with   the new firmware  roon core with SL  i could connect directly the innuos to the streamer and play music with roon remote ?

 

 

 

You will connect ZENITH directly to DAC. The ZENith becomes the streamer.

[noel.gregoire]

it is what i want to avoid.. i want to use innuos a server only  and not use the USB  as I have lots of dropouts with that connection..

[#Yoda#]

8 hours ago, noel.gregoire said:

it is what i want to avoid.. i want to use innuos a server only  and not use the USB  as I have lots of dropouts with that connection..

If you want to use the Innuos as server only, you need to choose the options "UPnP Streamers" or "Roon" - "use as Roon Core", if you want to use your Bricasti as Roon Endpoint.

 

As the name suggests, the Squeezelite Player is acting as a Roon Player and you can choose it, when the Innuous device  itself is the streamer, connected via USB to the DAC.

In principle, using the Innuos as streamer, is for many streaming/DACs with an optional USB input not a bad choice because of the inferior build in streaming boards are prevalent in such devices quite often. But you already use a Bricasti M5 as steaming client and this should be presumably better than the Innuos streaming board. No significant need to use the SL option and bypass the Bricasti. 

Anyway, unfortunately the Squeezelite Player (Experimental) option is in an alpha test stadium currently and for many users not reasonable. As far as I can see, there is no other option to use the Innuos as Roon Core and Player simultaneously.

[thyname]

1 hour ago, #Yoda# said:

As far as I can see, there is no other option to use the Innuos as Roon Core and Player simultaneously.

 

You can certainly use Innuos as Roon Core and Player simultaneously without SqueezeLite. One box to check on setting. Innuos will show up under RAAT on Roon settings.

[#Yoda#]

15 hours ago, thyname said:

 

You can certainly use Innuos as Roon Core and Player simultaneously without SqueezeLite. One box to check on setting. Innuos will show up under RAAT on Roon settings.

Sorry, I missed this, you are absolutely correct of course.

[noel.gregoire]

hi , 

 

 thanks for answers, 

 

 i also had contact with Nuno... no chance i can play Innuos direct to internal network player of Classé.... only through USB .  the only solution is that Classé become Roon ready...  so i have to keep Bricasti M5  !

 

 

 

[soares]

Hi Guys,

 

I wonder if you could help me with the following question (a very dumb one...).

 

When running Roon core on a STi5 (Nuc) and using the Innous as a Roon Player, how I "tell" the Roon core that my music files are in the Innous?

 

I do not know how you input the way (in storage options)... It should be something around "\\ip\????"

 

Tks,

 

Jorge 

 

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, soares said:

When running Roon core on a STi5 (Nuc) and using the Innous as a Roon Player, how I "tell" the Roon core that my music files are in the Innous?

 

If you are running Core on the NUC you would then have to set the Innuos to run as a Roon endpoint.  The Innuos should then show up as an audio output in Roon... and you would just play to it.  

 

Ah but your music files are on the Innuos.  You'd have to set the Innuos as a storage location for Roon Core to scan.  Go to Storage and create a new storage location and point that to the shared music folder on the Innuos box.  My question would be whether that folder is still accessible if the Innuos is running only as a Roon Player.  I guess it is if you can browse to it and place music there.  

[soares]

Thank you for the explanation. I was aware of that :-)

The issue is that I don't know how to "point" the storage location...

It should be something using "\\...\...", but I have no clue of what should I indicate.

 

Tks,

 

Jorge 

[kennyb123]

52 minutes ago, soares said:

Thank you for the explanation. I was aware of that 🙂

The issue is that I don't know how to "point" the storage location...

It should be something using "\\...\...", but I have no clue of what should I indicate.

 

 

Sorry that I stated the obvious.  My guess is that you would use the SMB notation as defined here:

 

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_What's_the_best_way_to_configure_my_NAS_for_Roon%3F

 

The Innuos is essentially serving as a NAS location too.

 

I would try:

 

smb://ip address of your Innuos/Music/folder

 

You should make sure your Innuos has a reserved IP so the IP address doesn’t change.

 

If your NUC is running Windows, the notation with the slashes going the other way should work.

[soares]

Oh thank you so much. That’s what I was looking for. I’ll give it a try tonight. 

Cheers Jorge

[soares]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:41 PM, kennyb123 said:

 

 

Sorry that I stated the obvious.  My guess is that you would use the SMB notation as defined here:

 

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_What's_the_best_way_to_configure_my_NAS_for_Roon%3F

 

The Innuos is essentially serving as a NAS location too.

 

I would try:

 

smb://ip address of your Innuos/Music/folder

 

You should make sure your Innuos has a reserved IP so the IP address doesn’t change.

 

If your NUC is running Windows, the notation with the slashes going the other way should work.

Thank you so much. It worked!!!

I take this opportunity to share with you what I've just post in the FB page "Innuous Owners Group":

"I’ve been testing it in several configurations and with additional equipment notably ultraRendu, Sonic Transporter i5 and opticalModule connected to a Cisco 2960. So far I haven’t take a final view on the best configuration for SQ purposes. So I will reserve my comments on that. What I can say for now is that if you aiming at getting still more satisfaction from your Innuos, just consider buying a Cisco and an optical module. The Cisco internet switch had a price (new) of more than 700 dollars. You can find it now for 50 bucks (used). The opticalModule costs around 270 dollars. Of course if you want to get the best from your oM you need a good LPS. I am using a LPS 1.2. These additions really made a difference. I will further report on the coming weeks, but it is not easy as there are so many possible configurations both from a software angle (i.e. HQPlayer, squeezebox, etc) as well as the hardware I currently use in my setup. Cheers. Jorge"

[kennyb123]

3 hours ago, soares said:

Thank you so much. It worked!!!

 

I’m happy to hear that this worked for you.  Thanks also for sharing your thoughts on OM and Cisco switch.