Everything sounds the same

[Albrecht]

2 minutes ago, marce said:

I do... Just getting cynical, quite often people ask what might be the cause of perceived differences, that's usually when the fun starts, one technical comment usually draws the the subjective trolls out from under their bridges with the usual, system not up to it, hearing not up to it etc. etc. ?

On an audiophile website it is impossible to have subjective trolls. There is no *real* objectivity of consequence when the goal is to enhance the experience of a recorded musical event.

 

[Albrecht]

4 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Abandon hope all ye who enter here

sadly: it is reason that has been abandoned here

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Abandon hope all ye who enter here

if you're part of the anti-audiophile 1%. Otherwise, - the vast majority of folks who read and participate here enjoy the benefits of learning about equipment and methodologies that enhance the listening experiences of recordings.

[Albrecht]

6 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I'm after all of those things, but I refuse to abandon all reason and logic. What percentage am I in?

If you think that the 99% of people/audiophiles here have abandoned reason and logic, - then I humbly suggest a serious re-evaluation.

[Albrecht]

9 hours ago, marce said:

Learning about equipment involves at least a small understanding of the underlying electronic engineering and physics, like cooking you have to learn some basics.

I don't really have a problem with that. But there really isn't much that you need to "learn" about the details of specific equipment pieces beyond a basic level of compatibility.

The goal is never to buy good/great individual pieces of equipment that are outside the context of an entire system.

The goal is to learn (about systems) through testing and experienced and repeated listening of different combinations of components to find a system synergy that delivers a faithfulness to the recording as far as one can determine.

 

The superiority and amazing quality of a Meitner DAC isn't going to be realized when plugged into a boombox. Of course, - no one does this, - but there certainly is a lot of unreasonable and unwarranted criticism that is purveyed by a tiny few disruptors here who are ignorant of the knowledge of repeated, comparative, listening experiences. They are speculators, - usually on the basis of some minute, and irrelevant measurement that has nothing to do with the final sound of the individual component or how/what that component affects the OVERALL SQ of the system.

This tells us all quite clearly that they are not curious, nor interested in "good sound" but in criticizing something that they know nothing about.

 

[Albrecht]

6 minutes ago, marce said:

How do you think audio equipment is designed, by engineers, especially the digital side of the playback chain. 

As to the rest, again because quite often the physics dose not back up your reality, then the physics is wrong!

Often the questions asked are what is the mechanism that is causing the perceived change in sound, often asked by a someone who is curious, if the reply is contrary to the belief then the fun starts. Instead of dissing measurements and science look into it or provide a possible mechanism yourself for why something causes a change.

There is NEVER, EVER, ever wrong physics in the design of any piece of audio gear.

If the "physics" is wrong, - the equipment doesn't function.

And the "design" is always secondary to the PERFORMANCE of the system. 

 

I am not dissing measurements and especially not science, - indeed when the potential customer engages the scientific method by conducted repeated and frequent comparative listening tests, - they are indeed acquiring knowledge via scientific investigation: the heart of it.

And of course, - measurements are important to the designer/builder. Blue Circle pours/builds their own capacitors and are constantly measuring them to ensure their variances are within spec. Indeed the choices to use "better" and (necessarily) more expensive resistors & capacitors, chokes, etc. that have less +/- variances are important aspects of designing great gear. Unfortunately it is these cost-to-build aspects that are so cavalierly dismissed (or ignored) as being "overkill" by the naysayers here.....

I am not dissing measurements by any means, - but measurements are largely irrelevant for any consumer, - as no measurements ever reflect on how the whole system sounds, and mostly, - do not reflect the performance of an individual component. (I use mostly, as there are some important stats like jitter that do).

[Albrecht]

44 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

You probably ought to remember the most talented audio engineers (electrical) aren’t in high-end audio. The money is better other places.

 

The golf company Taylormade for example.

"You probably ought to remember" 

Now that's not an arrogant statement in any way. Care to elaborate or cite evidence or name some of these audio engineers not in audio?

 

Also, - just because some of these engineers main income source is outside HEA development, - they may in fact still be "in" audio development outside their main gig. Of course, - you are correct that there is no money being made by luxury goods manufacturers, - the 1% are only leeches.

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Those of us fighting MQA have been called far worse than trolls face to face. If troll is the worst thing I’m called at RMAF this year I will be surprised.

 

Mans just enjoys the humor of it.

deleted

[Albrecht]

13 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The best audio engineers I ever met were in the United States Navy in my youth. Currently the best audio engineers work in the medical field, the movie industry and technology companies like AMD. And of course the obvious endeavor gaming is far more lucrative than high-end audio. 

 

That 1% is not particularly interested in high-end audio or the market wouldn't be declining.  

" Currently the best audio engineers work in the medical field, the movie industry and technology companies like AMD. And of course the obvious endeavor gaming is far more lucrative than high-end audio. 

I have asked you to elaborate and you have refused, - I understand, - so I will just say that what you are saying is not true.

 

 

"That 1% is not particularly interested in high-end audio or the market wouldn't be declining.  "

It is true that the 1% isn't particularly interested in the high-end or high-performance playback, - but even if they were, - they might be able to hold off the demise of a company or two, - but they certainly can't support an industry.

[Albrecht]

9 minutes ago, marce said:

We are talking about an electronic system, perception is a totally different field of study. What goes on in your head is different to the fidelity of your playback system. There are often audiologists in the design teams where sound reproduction is involved, but again they understand how we hear not how we perceive our world as a whole, and that is important..

A digital front end can't be designed without measurements, come to think about neither can the analogue section, that is a fact... 

A digital front end can't be designed without measurements, come to think about neither can the analogue section, that is a fact...

 

No it absolutely not a fact, - and it is entirely untrue, - all it takes is one example to refute, - and there are many examples of designers grabbing an off the shelf computer mainboard, plugging in a digital card into a PCI slot, - writing software and selling it.

 

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, marce said:

Search on Linkedin.

LOL,

no

Sit down and do some listening... I am not making a claim....

 

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, marce said:

Quite a few work in the pro-audio field...

Possibly...

There are a few great designers that may also work in the pro audio area, even though the disciplines have significant goals and differences: rare.

 

[Albrecht]

6 minutes ago, marce said:

And how was the computer designed, or the digital card...

not for HE audio, - most certainly....

[Albrecht]

6 hours ago, jabbr said:

Depends on what the claims are.

 

Is the capacitor being marketed as “low noise”? Is it? Low ESR? Is it?

 

The “Stradivarius” violin isn’t marketed with any specific technical claims that I know of, so SQ rules. Many audio products are marketed with technical (or pseudo-technical) claims and that’s a huge difference. Eg “phase coherent”, “24 bit linear” etc etc etc etc.

 

If the marketing didn’t introduce technical terms, these debates would substantially go away.

 

My impression isn’t that people don’t value SQ, rather are offended by unsubstantiated technical claims.

I think that you have interesting point that deserves more discussion.....

(just thinking out loud) i am not so sure that that many HE Audio manufacturers make unsubstantiated technical claims as much as more subjective SQ claims.

And, - there are many very angry folks who are erroneously attempt to correlate technical measurements with system performance, - out of context. And of course many of these folks don't know how to place a value on HQ, as they have no knowledge, (experience), of what it is.

IME, - claims by HE audio manufacturers through their marketing copy are much more substantiated than other corporate socialist luxury goods manufacturers.

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Yeah, I should probably sell all that measurement gear.

Absolutely...

Because it certainly has been useless to you....

[Albrecht]

Just now, jabbr said:

Oh no! I have a CPU on my desk that’s explicitly designed for high end — in fact it’s coded in VHDL (Very High Definition Language) — balanced Class A!

HA HA!!  ?

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

Oh no! I have a CPU on my desk that’s explicitly designed for high end — in fact it’s coded in VHDL (Very High Definition Language) — balanced Class A!

And I bet that you're not worried at all but the flaws of "charge pump" processing architecture!!

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

I'll let those who pay me be the judges of that.

And those that pay you hopefully know that you don't anything about HE audio.

[Albrecht]

22 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

The only time the sound of my system changes significantly is when I turn it off. 

Wouldn't you ever find it fun to listen to other systems?