Wavelength Wavelink USB to SPDIF Converter

[audioengr]

Chris - go ahead and delete the post.

 

Steve N.

 

[J-maxx]

And ordered a wavelink today. Should be here next week, and then the fun begins. Will report back once I have had a chance to give it a test ride. Can't wait for my new toy.

 

[blueixus]

This is already available, albeit as fully functioning development kit, I think rather stupidly they have used Toslink for the SPIDF output rather than BNC.

 

http://www.xmos.com/products/development-kits/usbaudio2

 

Power supplies don't look that clever either, but to be fair this is not a pure consumer/audiophile product.

 

 

 

[steve2701]

We seem to be 'singing' from the same book, although you are currently several pages in front.

I am looking to the near future and would like, at some stage, to use a pc, mac or possibly server to store and listen to music.

My main criteria for doing this will be it must at the very least equal in quality what I now use (Simaudio Andromeda) or there is little point in going there.

I have looked at storing music on a new Imac (already in my possesion) and running this into a Simaudio 750 dac, or just using the AES or BNC input on the back of the Andromeda and using its (already rather good) dac, but my problem with all of this is getting that signal / digital stream to the dac in the first place. No Imac I have ever seen has a BNC on the back of it to output a stream, but it does have firewire, which is what I propose to use. This would, at the moment need to go to the Weiss Vesta interface to convert to AES and then feed the dac. This all seems to be a lot of a faff about, and brings with it all the associated problems of cables, jitter etc and what lenghts of cable I can use for best performance, not to mention the (very considerable) cost of doing it all - just to get a nice stable, jitter free stream to the dac that it can work with. I would also consider the TPA dac that you are proposing built to the 'ultimate' with psu etc, so I'm following your posts with great interest.

Perhaps, just perhaps, one day a computer giant will come up with a connection dedicated to great music / digital output. I dont think I'll be holding my breath for that one though.

 

[barrows]

It is unlikely that a computer company will provide a low jitter, high resolution capable, SPDIF output from a computer. Computer companies produce stuff based on lowest possible price, and the audiophile market is way too small for them to be concerned about. If your Andromeda has a digital input, and you like its sound, a USB/Firewire to SPDIF converter is what you need, and you need a good one. The Weiss INT202 would give you AES and Coax SPDIF output, with low jitter from your iMac. The Wavelength Wavelink will give you Coax SPDIF from your iMac. As noted above, there is another new converter coming out from Empirical Audio later this year that may be very good as well.

The other way to go is a DAC with a built in Firewire or Async USB input. These have the advantage of not using the clock embedded SPDIF format, and as such, can offer slightly higher performance. Read this site for more info, some favorites here are: Weiss DAC202, Ayre QB-9, Wavelength DACs, and the new Aesthetix Pandora is worth a look as well. Some folks are also reporting good results with pro audio converters (although these can be a little harder to use) like the Metric Halo LIO8 and Prism Orpheus.

My experience is that it is possible to meet or exceed the performance of a very good single box CD player with a computer based set up, but just that doing so is not as easy as some would have us believe, and as with anything in high end audio, one must pay attention to many small set up details to get the best performance. This site is a great resource for sorting out these details.

 

[barrows]

1st impressions:

 

let it warm up for a couple of hours, using my own cables (Wireworld Starlight USB, and Stereovox XVY SPDIF). BTW it comes with some pretty decent cables, a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB, and Ultraviolet SPDIF.

Made a single comparison vs. the CD transport on the first track of Shelby Lynne's: Just A Little Lovin'. This track is great for hearing low level details, and ambience retrieval. Right away it was clear that the Wavelink was at least the equal of the CD transport.

OK, pull the transport out of the rack, and re-arrange things to get the best possible setup, then listen more. OK, now the Wavelink is singing. All the attributes which I associate with very low jitter playback are present: plenty of very low level details, lots of ambience retrieval, more "real" sounding instrumental timbres, and great bass definition, but all presented with an analog type of ease. No problems, no clicks or pops on 16/44.1 and 24/96 so far. Time to try 24/192.

OK, this device is expensive, but so far it is doing what the others I tried could not, creating great sound! Seems like a keeper. I will be interested to hear other's findings.

 

[Purite Audio]

How much is the wave link?

Keith.

 

[blueixus]

Any chance of a UK distributor, would be good to hear this.

 

There is someone in Poland but it is a long trek, they don't show this product on their website, and what Wavelength products they do have they don't show any prices for...can only assume we don't matter...

 

[leo1311]

Thank you for wavelink news.

 

What differences did you notice between Wavelink and Audiopholleo?

 

Did you use the same computer machine and digital cables (usb and bnc)?

 

Where may I buy on line wavelink?

 

Leonardo.

 

[ted_b]

Gordon will be proud. Wish I still had the Forssell to try it.

 

The Wavelength Wavelink is $900 US. Wavelength's dealers are here:

http://www.usbdacs.com/Contact/Contact.html

 

[Wavelength]

Barrows,

 

BTW I made 8 of these the day yours went out and so I picked the top unit for you! Ahhh really they were only really about 0.1% differential in all the jitter measurements from 44.1-192.

 

Thanks for the nice comments! For some reason and really I have no idea why people seem to think it sounds better after a few weeks of use. So I had a pile of stuff back from RMAF and pulled out my WaveLink and fired it up and left it running for a while and tested it.

 

Funny thing... it did actually test a little better than it did a month ago when I built it.

 

Everyone do understand while I spent a ton of time developing the WaveLink. I really feel that going direct in the way of a USB DAC should sound a lot better than sticking a converter between a computer and an SPDIF dac.

 

Though if you have to stay with a legacy SPDIF dac, using a asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter should be able to better the performance of most transports.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[barrows]

Gordon. Waiting for my system to warm up for some more listening today. Interesting, measured jitter dropping with break in, flat earthers will have a field day with this! Gordon, any comments on (recommended) SPDIF cable length with the Wavelink? I only ask because many believe cable length can be tuned to edge rise time to avoid reflections arriving at the edge trigger point.

 

Ted, are you sticking with the Weiss DAC2, or are you gonna go back to the LIO8?

 

I am totally in agreement with Gordon on his preference for DACs with built in Async interfaces, as this avoids SPDIF, and the jitter increasing clock generator/PLL circuits necessary with SPDIF. Eventually I will be going this route. But, I do find the Wavelink is giving very, very good performance combined with the SPDIF receiver in the ESS 9018.

 

On the Audiophilleo: first, it is possible the unit I had was defective. When I returned it I asked Philip (the designer) to let me know if he found any problems with it; I have not heard back from him. It did not have the same level of resolution as my CD transport (using the same DAC, same SPDIF cable) and was lacking in low level detail retrieval and ambiance. Also, I had clicks, pops, and dropouts, and also had a strange frying egg noise come out when playing 24/192. I have spoken with others who have not experienced the same kind of problems, so it is definitely worth a try. One can demo the Audiophilleo at home, and return it if you are not satisfied-I would encourage anyone who is interested to give it a try, and not take my observations as the only data point on this device.

 

I am loving the Wavelink so far, and it is playing all files 16/44.1-24/192 with no problems at all.

 

[Marcin_gps]

Hello barrows,

 

Could you post your previous S/PDIF converters, please?

 

Regards,

Marcin

 

 

[dallasjustice]

You said:

"Though if you have to stay with a legacy SPDIF dac, using a asynchronous USB

to SPDIF converter should be able to better the performance of most

transports."

 

Have you done any direct or indirect comparison of your wavelink with the venerable Lynx AES16?

Thanks,

Michael Lowe

 

[Wavelength]

Barrows,

 

I would think depending on cable maker that 2-3 meters would be the MAX. I have a number of them here including the better AudioQuest, Analysis Plus, Nirvana T2, T1 &T0, WireWorld etc... Most of these sound best between 1-2 meters.

 

The big problem is that ok... lets say it works with DACx they we try DACy. There is so much variation of the SPDIF spec that who's to say if 1M is right for DACx it might be totally wrong for DACy... or vice versa.

 

~~~~~~~~~

 

Michael,

 

I never compare products, it's really a negative thing to do as a designer. Ounce a dealer asked me to do that and I screwed up because I was working against another product. Really I just have to live in a bubble and determine what the design goals are for each product.

 

I did own a Lynx ounce... it left with my last Mac Pro (needed the bench area).

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[J-maxx]

Gordon,

 

So which one of your SPDIF arsenal sounds best to you with the wavelink? Or, to shy away from the "best" notion, can you describe some of the varying results with the different cables?

 

On the same topic, how did you end up choosing the Wireworld cables to include with this product?

 

And lastly, can you give more information on the battery system and how it operates?

 

Thanks. Looking forward to receiving the wavelink next week.

 

J-maxx

 

[dallasjustice]

Because so many of us use Lynx sound cards, I sure hope someone here does a comparison to at least your product, if not several others e.g. legato, off-ramp, audiophilleo. Hint, hint, hint, hint, hint . . .

 

The term "legacy SPDIF dac" bothers me a little. I know asychronous DAC is the consensus future, but there is still plenty of SOTA gear in use that isn't setup that way; eg. Berkley alpha, NAD M2, off-ramp/overdrive combo via I2s, mykerinos+synchronous DAC and many others. I believe there is still some merit to external transport. It seems like there's new and improved usb to SPDIF being released by some great company every month. I wouldn't want to have to replace a $6,000 DAC every time a manufacturer discovers a significantly better method of transport.

 

 

 

[labjr]

"The term 'legacy SPDIF dac' bothers me a little".

 

How about, "jitter-prone outdated kludge interface which won't die DAC."?

 

"off-ramp/overdrive combo via I2s and many others.

 

I2S isn't S/PDIF. As far as I know I2S wasn't designed to be an external interface.

 

"I believe there is still some merit to external transport."

 

Maybe an upgradable modular system. I think all in one case would probably be better though. Just takes good service from companies who continually improve their products and offer upgrades without whacking you for the price of a new unit. There are a few companies which do some of this now like Wavelength, Ayre, Metric Halo. Then there are a lot of companies that don't.

 

[dallasjustice]

labjr,

 

Have you heard one? If you had, you may modify your perspective a bit.

 

My point is that usb computer transport has a long way to go. Having heard the mykerinos in two different setups at RMAF, it is clear that even the best USB-based transport technology has a significant gap to close with the finest computer-based audio transport. I don't want to buy a new DAC every step along the way.

 

 

 

[barrows]

For the perspective on cable length, it makes perfect sense that the SPDIF receiver would play a big role in determining this.

 

Dallas: I believe that "legacy DAC" is as good a term as any. As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as a state of the art DAC that offers only an SPDIF input. IMO, by definition, state of the art would require that the DAC offer a better performing interface than SPDIF. If you disagree, I would suggest that you really learn how SPDIF interfaces work (a good place to start is the information available at Ayre's website). An SPDIF interface is inherently technically inferior to a well designed asynchronous interface, assuming the best possible implementation of either approach.

 

For the record, I have used the following interfaces between computer and DAC at home:

 

RME Fireface 400 (Firewire)

Sonicweld Diverter (USB)

Audiophilleo 2 (USB)

And the typical digital output (optical) from the MacBook.

 

I also have a fair amount of experience withe the USB input of the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC (Centrance code on TAS 1020)

 

In my system, the Wavelink is the first interface which I have been happy with. As always (and I cannot stress this enough) YMMV; one should always listen for themselves, and draw their own conclusions.

 

[Wavelength]

Gang,

 

As far as WaveLink HS and SPDIF cables... again this really depends on your taste. Remember not only is SPDIF carrying data it is also sending along the clock for the ride. Remember this is the framing clock which derives the data into packets which then creates the master clock for the stream to the dac. Hopefully with some jitter reduction there somewhere.

 

The good thing about SPDIF cables is that companies have had years to determine what is best so there are a bunch. So as Barrows says always try and listen and this is what a dealer gets paid for so take advantage of it.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

 

My point is that usb computer transport has a long way to go. Having heard the mykerinos in two different setups at RMAF, it is clear that even the best USB-based transport technology has a significant gap to close with the finest computer-based audio transport. I don't want to buy a new DAC every step along the way.

 

Actually I totally disagree and can show some heavy proof in this respect. Only 5% of the transports out there read a CD using ATAPI commands. This is the best way to do that and is the only way to asynchronous read a CD. The funny thing is this is the way a computer reads a CD all the time.

 

Really since the computer can read an entire CD in ram with error correction and be assured of bit true output then this becomes a no-brainer.

 

Plus think of it this way... ok take those 5% of the transports that correctly read the disk using ATAPI and use an asynchronous process. These are typically $7500 up to ... well more than most BMW M series. So you can take a simple MacBook Pro at what $1500 decked out and it will easily equal that of these expensive beasts with an acceptable savings.

 

Now here is the real sticking point in regards to acceptance of CA and the USB and other interfaces. Stereophile did a poll and now more than 80% of the people that responded said they are using CA as their digital source.

 

Anyways, back to work or play... play it is? guys guitar or drums today?

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Using a single Windows system, a Legato and a Lynx were run into a Berkeley Alpha. In that test, the Legato was clearly superior. And I mean "clearly" in the sense that no "close listening" was required -- the differences jumped out at us.

 

Admittedly, the Legato is not a Wavelink, but they do use the same async USB code.

 

Further, as Dave Clark @ PFO has identified, such async devices have a similar sound.

 

Ok, given #1 and #2, it might be reasonable to assume (and I actually expect) that results for the Legato will apply to the Wavelink.

 

Will the Wavelink sound better or worse than a Legato? Send me a Wavelink and I'll tell you. ;-)

 

[Lars]

"Further, as Dave Clark @ PFO has identified, such async devices have a similar sound."

 

I have found this not to be true. A gross over generalization.

 

 

 

[CG]

"Remember not only is SPDIF carrying data it is also sending along the clock for the ride."

 

Hmmm... I think the data is along for the ride in this case. :8^)

 

[dallasjustice]

I have a Wavelength Wavelink right now and comparing it with my Lynx AES 16. My initial impression is that the Lynx card is still a little superior; wider and deeper image. So as to take the cables out of the equation, I borrowed MIT MA-X Oracle interconnects (AES for Lynx and SPDIF and Locus Axis for Wavelength) to do my little comparison. I have them running simultaneously in JRMC zones 1 and 2 into my NAD M2 which makes it easy to switch inputs on the NAD to immediately hear the difference.

 

I just got the Wavelink today, so I want to let it go a bit before I make any definitive statements. BTW, I am using an Antelope DA re-clocker between my Lynx card and NAD M2 which gives me galvanic isolation and allows me to use a high end cable like the MIT MA-X, which does make a huge difference on its own.