The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

Hi Alex,

So will this one work? It is a Zerozone 50w and it can be set to 9v/3a or 12v/3a. I just want to be sure..........

 

Well, 9V/3A is only 27W, but 12V/3A is 36W and would be fine.

 

Only thing is, most of the Chinese units I have tested (with DC electronic load), including a Zerozone in that size range, do not meet their rated current specifications.  Here are pics of a 9V/3A rated Zerozone that I tested.  Output voltage dropped precipitously even under moderate load!

Top number is DC output voltage, second line is current load.

 

A 9V/3A supply that puts out just 7.6 volts at 2 amps?!  Pretty useless.

 

[Superdad]

13 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Hi Alex, Thank you!!  It looks like I need to spend some more money and get a better rated LPS.

 

Or just stay with the nice UpTone-branded 7.5V/4.8A/36W ground-shunted SMPS we include with the LPS-1.2 and be happy.  

Leakage (and lousy DC output noise levels) are the real evils of an SMPS, but neither are a factor when used as a charger for our UltraCap supplies.  The high-frequency switching harmonics put back into the wall by a modern SMPS are negligible.

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, Confused said:

Does this apply in general?  As an example, I would expect a well designed piece of audio equipment that has a SMPS to have selected one that performs well in this regard.  But what about the tiny thing that charges my iPhone, the SMPS that feeds my router, or many other consumer products?

 

They certainly do vary.

What is interesting is that some of the quality SMPS units actually suppress/absorb/filter(?) noise which is already present in the wall.  Here is a short video demo I did with the Entech Powerline Noise Meter and the Mean Well SMPS (which we have shipped thousands of, with USB REGENs, ISO REGENs, and the original UltraCap LPS-1).  

Not shown is that after that I tried the same thing with an Apple 12W iPad USB charger block (not the tiny iPhone size charger cube), and the noise went up not down.

 

 

 

[Superdad]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:37 PM, Geoff1954 said:

The  Wyred 4 Sound PS 1 is a little more expensive than the LPS 1.2, but can power up to 4 devices. Could Alex, John or anyone else offer an explanation for why they believe the LPS 1.2 is a better purchase?

 

While I think the Wyred4Sound is a nifty box, it is quite different from our UltraCap LPS-1.2.

 

UpTone's UltraCap supplies are completely "floated"/isolated units, where the DC output is never connected to the AC mains in anyway (the whole bank-alternating as explained on the web page).  Think of it more like a battery--except with lower noise and lower output impedance.  And the new LPS-1.2 uses a pair of the lowest noise, lowest output-impedance, highest PSRR regulators made--the wonderful LT3045.

 

With the Wyred4Sound PS-1, each 1 amp output module shares its DC zero-volt "ground" with the other installed modules.  This is not ideal if you are trying to establish isolation between devices.

 

With regards to price, the base price of the W4S PS-1 is $399--but that is without ANY DC output modules.  One 1A module brings it to $524; if you add a second 1A module you are at $649, four 1A modules gets you to $899, or a unit with just one 1A module and one 2A module is $1,024.

Contrast that with our own choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp JS-2 at $925.

 

Hope that helps a little. 

[Superdad]

On 4/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, tboooe said:

I must commend you on another great product!  

 

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I had in mind writing nearly the same post.  I received my LPS-1.2 today and simply swapped it for the LPS-1 powering my ISO REGEN.  I wasn’t really expecting to be blown away, but boy was I wrong. 

 

Tommy & Kenny:

Thank you both so much for your kind words and for sharing your impressions.  It means a lot to us and makes worthwhile the recent long days and weekends spent catching up.

 

I’m pleased to report that a lot of units went out today, and by Thursday another 90 units will go out, at last catching us up with all back-orders.  These 250 are going really fast—there will be only about 40 left at the end of this week.  Am already buying parts for the next run.

 

John is working hard on a number of things—including final assemby of his computer-controlled surface mount parts placer, to use for prototyping of complex PCBs at home.  (Placing hundreds of tiny parts by hand is extremely tedious!)

He already has and uses a desktop vapor-phase reflow oven, so completion of the parts placer will be a big deal for us.  Maybe he’ll post some pics of it in a few days.  It is really cool!  His first project with it will be placement of all the parts for his clock maker/blocker/isolation board for the advanced test system he is building.

So stay tuned!   

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, kissov said:

What voltage is best for the ISO?

 

7 volts! 

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, oneguy said:

I have an LPS-1.2 that registers over-current when I connect it to my SU-1 set at 5v but my other LPS-1.2 does not do this when connected tot he same SU-1. Both LPS-1.2s work with my ultraRendu at 7v. It sounds like its faulty and needs to be replaced unless there is some reason for this happening that I am missing. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

That is strange since the SU-1 probably draws less current than an ultraRendu, and a given LPS-1.2 has the same current limit at all output voltages (each unit is certified to 1.1A, but actual overcurrent trio point will vary from about 1.11A to 1.19A).

 

So how about you contact me directly and send the unit in question back for bench testing?  If it acts strange in any way we will of course exchange it for you.

 

Thanks,

— Alex C.

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, SWL3600 said:

A custom 7.5V/4.8A/36W world-voltage-compatible tabletop SMPS for "energizing" the UltraCap™ LPS-1.2, along with a 45cm AC power cable (standard IEC plug one end, USA wall plug at the other—international buyers can cut and put a local plug on or just use any standard power cord

 

I copied this from the Uptone site. I thought I remember reading that this is supposed to be better than the ones that came with the ISO Regen and the standard Regen. 

 

Is this the case? Can it now be purchased independently without the LPS-1.2?

 

It can indeed be ordered separately now:  https://uptoneaudio.com/products/uptone-branded-7-5v-4-8a-36w-smps-with-internal-ground-shunt

 

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, SWL3600 said:

Also, if it is supposed to be better.....better how?

 

Aside from being a higher wattage unit (required to supply the expanded output voltage range of the new generation LPS-1.2) the new SMPS is internally "ground-shunted," so it does not output any high-impedance leakage.  

Our UltraCap supplies (both the LPS-1 and the LPS-1.2) completely block the path of low-impedance leakage, but because we use transistors (which have a few picoFarads each of capacitance) to alternate between ultracapacitor banks (instead of mechanical noisy relays), we discovered that some of a lesser-known form of AC leakage (high-impedance leakage) was able to pass through the UltraCap units.  It is easily dealt with by shunting the AC mains ground to the DC output zero-volt "ground," and John even passed along a DIY trick to do this.

But for the release of the LPS-1.2, the obvious thing to do was to include a supply that is already internally shunted.

[The LPS-1.2 also uses transistors with about 1/3rd the total capacitance, but really that is more of a belt-and-suspenders approach since the included UpTone-branded SMPS charger does not output any high-impedance leakage in the first place.]

[Superdad]

Oh wow!  I completely forgot (and someone else phoned about this just this week and I did not remember then either):  The microRendu does not like the few milliseconds ramp up of the output  voltage of the paralleled LT3045-based UltraCap LPS1.2.  So indeed it is required that one first boot up the LPS1.2 and then plug its output into the Rendu.  I’m traveling this evening so can’t check my notes about if this applies to the just the microRendu or the UltraRendu—one or both. John will probably remember as we discussed this a month or so ago.

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

 

Chord Qutest has no issue with this but... booting the LPS 1.2 will take a veeery long time if it's already plugged to it

 

Really?  That’s odd.  I routinely boot/test LPS-1.2 PCBs with a heavy 1A load on and connected, so what you are experiencing is not an issue of our supply not being willing to boot quickly if a load is present and waiting.

 

By the way, how do you like the SQ of the Chord Qutest/UltraCap LPS1.2 combo?

 

[Superdad]

15 minutes ago, kissov said:

Picked up a little segmented voltmter from Amazon.  It reads the volts (7.0 right on) across the G and V terminals on the back of the  LPS 1.2 but it does not read anything across the G and I terminals.  Why?  what am I doing wrong. I was curious how many miliamps the microRendu and the ISO were pulling.  Help.  Thanks.

 

If it is the Bayite 3-wire one we recommended (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YALV0NG), then all 3 wires must be attached to the LPS-1.2.  The V terminal, aside from giving you a reading of the voltage setting, is also the power for the meter.  So with the Bayite meter, the black wire goes to G (ground), the red wire goes to V (voltage), and the white wire goes to I (current).  To measure the voltage you put both the red and white wire into the V terminal (and always the black to the G terminal). 

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, Geoff1954 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it but it didn't work. I am using ZyXel powerline adaptors.

 

Hi Geoff:

 

Sorry that you are having troubles with the microRendu.  I hope that Sonore is able to help.  As far as your questions about getting the microRendu to work with your networks and powerline adapters, you are more likely to find advice over in the microRendu support thread.

 

Regards,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, jdoleys said:

@Superdad What is the approximate delivery time for orders made now from LPS 1.2?

We still have about 30 units left in stock (from the second 250 unit run), so orders placed now will ship this Friday (would be sooner but we somehow ran out of the 27-inch 16awg coax DC cable that is included with every unit).

More boards and cases are on order, so even once these last 30 are sold we will be back in stock by the end of May.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, kissov said:

Just hooked up my meter, my microRendu (upgraded) and ISO are drawing 700 miliamps from the LPS 1.2. I thought it would be more.

 

Was that with or without a DAC connected to the output of the ISO REGEN?  I suspect that is with a DAC that is contributing at least 150mA to what you are measuring as whatever 5VBUS load is on the USB output of the ISO REGEN gets added into the overall load.

 

BTW, the meter itself adds about 10~20mA of load. Of course that is almost nothing.  

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, mozes said:

The buzzing noise is from the LPS-1.2 itself. It is the same buzzing noise with the supplied SMPS or with my other 5Amp LPS at 19V. I will measure the voltage output when the light shows green. I don’t think there is any issue with the LPS-1.2 as I have tried 3 LPS-1.2s and they all have the same issue but they all work fine on my other components.

 

I'm sorry Moussa, but I can not even fathom what sort of mechanical "buzzing" you are hearing.  I have had hundreds of LPS-1.2 units on my desk--in my extremely quiet studio--and not a single one buzzes, even with a full 1.1A load on it.  If I press my ear to the case I can just barely hear a very faint "tick" when the unit alternates between ultracap banks.

So we really would like to know more about what you are hearing with your LPS-1.2 units!

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, mozes said:

I made an experiment today with a lithium battery and when I added the LT3045 to the DC cable, I heard the same buzzing noise coming from the LT3045 board and the tX-USBexp card didn’t power as well. ..

 

So to make it very clear, there is absolutely no issue with the LPS-1.2, it seems that it is a compatibility issue with the tX-USBexp card. I am using now my LPS-1s so I fine for now, but I would like to understand what the issue is. 

 

Okay, that is weird.  You mention both the tX-USBultra and the tX-USBexp.  One is a big external box, the other is a PCIe USB card that goes in a computer slot.  Which one causes the issue?

 

Also, in your experiment with battery, is the LT3045 you added inline one of Alexey's (LDOVER) DIY PCBs?  

And I assume that when you get the "buzzing" result with the UpTone LPS-1.2s you are not using the LDOVER boards in line after the LPS-1.2--correct?

And with the battery>LT3045 PCB experiment, do you hear the buzzing from the LT3045s themselves or from the 10uF caps on the output?

 

[Superdad]

No offense to Geoff, Jdoleys, or John Swenson, but all those posts about microRendu troubleshooting are going to disappear from this thread in a day or two.    Glad Geoff got it sorted though...

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, jdoleys said:

OK boss! Intention is to replace the already sold LPS-1 by ordering the new one as soon as money comes in. I received DC cable from Ghent. I do not know to what extent should we mention equipment associated directly with LPS uptone in this space.

 

No worries!   Just did not want this turning into a troubleshooting thread for another brand's product (even one that John did the hardware engining for!).

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, kissov said:

Hey Superdad,

Any chance to purchase those right angle interconects you deliver with the LPS 1.2?  They are a good size coaxial and reasonable quality?  Thank you.

 

You mean our 27-inch/70cm 16awg coax DC cables with one of its 5.5mm x 2.1mm plugs at right-angle? Sure.  $5 each plus postage ($3 in USA for up to 3 pcs.; International First Class mail sadly costs us $13 for even just a few ounces; Canada is probably $9).  

 

It is not the sort of item I am going to list on our web site, so just send me a note via e-mail or our web page contact form (not via CA forum private message system please), and I'll give you our PayPal address to send funds to.  

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, pl_svn said:

just... what kind of "plug" do I need? wires are so thin I can't make them stick 

 

Something like this:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/mill-max-manufacturing-corp/380-10-103-00-002000/ED10253-ND/8019516

 

I posted about it up-thread:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38595-the-new-generation-ultracap-lps-12-user-impressions-and-questions-thread/?do=findComment&comment=788005

You will need to solder the wires into the cups of the connector.  I have never seen a .1" header plug (that's the spacing standard of these things) with screw terminals or other solderless connections--besides crimp pins of course, but those require an expensive crimp tool.

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, kissov said:

Or this, All Electronics,

 

Very cool!  But I just wasted 8 minutes searching on the All Electronics site for it--and did not find it.  How about a link please? 

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

and... is this one likely to work?

 

As an extension cable for the meter cable (which is usually only about 14cm), that cable you linked to will work fine. And indeed you will have to cut off the tab on the male end.

[Superdad]

34 minutes ago, kissov said:

Sorry, All Electronics local to LA, but I believe Amazon has the connector with three pins and the correct spacing.

 

Well that is disappointing.  Getting the connector and pins is not the problem.  It is that one needs a specialized crimp tool ($100-300) to properly attach the pins to the wires before inserting into the white housing.  I have several such tools myself, but no desire to have my assistant sitting around crimping pins on cheap meter wires. 

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, Cornan said:

How about using bootleg ferrules? They are easy to crimp with cheap tools, but do anyone know the diameter of the Molex pins?

BTW there are square ones around as well if needed.

 

0.5mm~0.7mm is fine.