(Another) Best way to stream tidal

[Alcap]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anybody could offer some advice on streaming Tidal.

ive tried the raspberry pi/openhome method but found it to be complicated and not the best sound quality,

now im using an Intel NUC with openhome renderer and I’m controlling it with LUMIN app on an iPad,

sofar im happy with the sound and it seems to work flawlessly.

The question is would I be better using a laptop and the Tidal desktop app as this seems to give me 

me the ability to stream MQA albums,

MQA albums show up in the LUMIN app but I don’t think the 

method im using at the moment can play them.

any help/tips appreciated.

[wklie]

In the OpenHome model of playback, the decoding of different file formats is a responsibility of the renderer.  So if you use Lumin app and desire MQA decoding, you need an OpenHome renderer that can decode MQA, e.g. Lumin product line, Esoteric N-01.

[rodrigaj]

Just to clarify: Lumin App does not decode MQA for all MQA renderers when used with openhome emulation (Bubbleupnp Server + Minimserver). For example, my PS Audio Direct Stream DAC w/ Bridge II will do a full Tidal MQA decode, but only when using the mConnect Control App. The bridge II does not perform the decode when I use the far superior Lumin App.

[R1200CL]

Install Roon Rock on that NUC. Find an old “broken” iPhone as endpoint. (Using the camera connection kit). 

If MQA is important you can later buy a Sonore xRendu, and you get the first unfold up to 24/96. 

[Cebolla]

47 minutes ago, rodrigaj said:

Just to clarify: Lumin App does not decode MQA for all MQA renderers when used with openhome emulation (Bubbleupnp Server + Minimserver). For example, my PS Audio Direct Stream DAC w/ Bridge II will do a full Tidal MQA decode, but only when using the mConnect Control App. The bridge II does not perform the decode when I use the far superior Lumin App.

 

The Lumin App (or any other OpenHome controller) does not decode any audio file format, let alone MQA. As @wklie has already mentioned, it's the resposibilty of the OpenHome renderer to decode the various audio file formats, so that would include MQA files.

 

In your specific case, BubbleUPnP Server's created OpenHome renderers unfortunately do not support MQA, so they only log into TIDAL's online server with an API security token to only request non-MQA files. Therefore any TIDAL supporting OpenHome controller that you use with BubbleUPnP Server's created OpenHome renderers won't even display MQA files.

 

Also, the Bridge II is using a totally separate method of accessing TIDAL when using its built-in support for the mConnect proprietary streaming mechanism, ie, the Bridge II is using its internal mConnect renderer (and not its internal standard UPnP renderer, which works with the BubbleUPnP Server).

[wklie]

5 hours ago, Cebolla said:

the Bridge II is using a totally separate method of accessing TIDAL when using its built-in support for the mConnect proprietary streaming mechanism, ie, the Bridge II is using its internal mConnect renderer (and not its internal standard UPnP renderer

 

I'm not familiar with the Bridge II, so I didn't know it does not use its UPnP renderer for MQA decoding.  This design choice is interesting.  Does that imply if someone uses a UPnP controller to tell the Bridge II to play a downloaded / purchased MQA file from a UPnP media server, the MQA decoding will not be done?

 

In case of Lumin hardware and Esoteric N-01, the MQA decoding is done by the OpenHome renderer, so even if the app is not aware of MQA, MQA can still be decoded fully.  Example: Use Tidal desktop app to mark a Tidal Master album as favorite, then uses Linn Kazoo app (not MQA-aware) to play the album from Tidal favorite to the aforementioned hardware player, MQA will still be decoded fully.

[Cebolla]

15 hours ago, wklie said:

 

I'm not familiar with the Bridge II, so I didn't know it does not use its UPnP renderer for MQA decoding.  This design choice is interesting.  Does that imply if someone uses a UPnP controller to tell the Bridge II to play a downloaded / purchased MQA file from a UPnP media server, the MQA decoding will not be done?

 

No, in a sense the mConnect streaming system is similar to the OpenHome one: although their respective controller apps are incompatible with industry standard UPnP/DLNA renderers, they can still access ordinary UPnP/DLNA media servers to get their own renderers to stream & play audio files from.

 

It's also possible and actually makes more sense that, like OpenHome renderers, the mConnect renderer can double up as a standard UPnP renderer and is what is actually being controlled when you use a standard UPnP/DLNA control point with the Bridge II (rather than engaging a separately designed standard UPnP renderer).

 

Of course the main difference between mConnect and OpenHome remains - closed proprietary vs open source. Hence it's not easy to find out what's going on inside the mConnect renderer, without actually having one to 'play' with.

[rodrigaj]

@Cebolla So the only way to get the MQA complete unfold with the Bridge II, either from Tidal or an MQA purchased download, is with the mConnect app?

[R1200CL]

AFAIK, the only way to get a complete MQA unfold is to have a DAC that supports it. 

 

Now if the MQA file is only 88.1 or 96 at max unfold, then that may be discussed, but you will not get the parameters set for your DAC. 

[Cebolla]

My understanding (& @rodrigaj can confirm) is that the PS Audio Bridge II does indeed do a full decode as it's actually a plugin board intended for use only with certain PS Audio DACs, so not a standalone network audio file player as such. In effect it turns the PS Audio DAC it's placed in into an MQA supporting DAC (via network 'input' only).

 

For example, image taken of Direcstream DAC display, with Bridge II streaming MQA file from TIDAL (from psaudio.com forums):

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, rodrigaj said:

@Cebolla So the only way to get the MQA complete unfold with the Bridge II, either from Tidal or an MQA purchased download, is with the mConnect app?

 

- From TIDAL, yes you do need the mConnect app;

- For MQA purchased downloads, I actually said that it's most likely you don't need the mConnect app and can use any standard UPnP/DLNA controller, or any OpenHome controller with the BubbleUPnP Server created OpenHome renderer for the Bridge II (you probably misunderstood my post that you quoted).

 

Why don't you try it for yourself with the free MQA file downloads from 2L's excellent test bench, which allows you to compare different hi-res audio formats?

http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

Don't forget to report back!

[rodrigaj]

@Cebolla Thank you for the link. That is a great resource.

 

OK, so I downloaded one of the MQA files and just as you explained I was able to get the complete MQA unfold using Lumin App Control in an OpenHome emulation. Here is a snapshot of my PS Audio DSDac / Bridge II screen:

 

@R1200CL A full MQA unfold is done in the PS Audio Bridge II renderer, not the DSD DAC.

 

This is great news for folks like me that hate the mConnect control app.

 

 

[Cebolla]

Thanks for trying that, @rodrigaj. So looks like the Bridge II's mConnect renderer can indeed also be controlled by a standard UPnP/DLNA control point, which is similar to OpenHome renderers.

[Alcap]

Thanks for all the replies guys a lot of useful stuff but as I said in my original post I’m using an intel NUC so was thinking of ways to use that to stream Tidal and control the  whole thing with my iPad.

MQA is not so important to me (but it would be nice to have)

 

 

[rodrigaj]

On 2/11/2018 at 2:15 AM, Alcap said:

The question is would I be better using a laptop and the Tidal desktop app as this seems to give me 

me the ability to stream MQA albums,

MQA albums show up in the LUMIN app but I don’t think the 

method im using at the moment can play them.

any help/tips appreciated.

 

Since you were already streaming Tidal with an Intel NUC and asked specifically how to stream MQA the thread went in that direction.

 

At this point, I think you need to be more specific:

 

"I’m using an intel NUC so was thinking of ways to use that to stream Tidal and control the  whole thing with my iPad."

 

Compared to your original post:

 

"now im using an Intel NUC with openhome renderer and I’m controlling it with LUMIN app on an iPad,

sofar im happy with the sound and it seems to work flawlessly."

 

[Cebolla]

On 2/11/2018 at 8:15 AM, Alcap said:

now im using an Intel NUC with openhome renderer and I’m controlling it with LUMIN app on an iPad,

sofar im happy with the sound and it seems to work flawlessly.

 

2 hours ago, Alcap said:

Thanks for all the replies guys a lot of useful stuff but as I said in my original post I’m using an intel NUC so was thinking of ways to use that to stream Tidal and control the  whole thing with my iPad.

MQA is not so important to me (but it would be nice to have)

 

I your original post you said you were currently using the 'openhome renderer' on the NUC, presumably accessing TIDAL. What exactly is this 'openhome renderer' software?

[Alcap]

First of all let me apologize for being so “unspecific” in my original post.

I am new the the streaming game and at at the moment my efforts have been a little bit trial and error but I’m learning thanks to the forum.

The openhome renderer I’m using is from    openhome.org 

[Cebolla]

Ok, it's openhome.org's OpenHome Player.

In which case I can think of couple alternative network audio file players for the NUC that can stream from TIDAL (not MQA, unfortunately), with control via an iPad app:

 

- mpd with the upmpdcli UPnP renderer front end client for mpd. It's actually configured by default to be another OpenHome renderer, but it provides its own access to TIDAL via a special auxillary streaming services media server, rather than using OpenHome Streaming Services. So using the LUMIN app you'd have to select the upmpdcli media server to access TIDAL, rather the dedicated TIDAL option.

 

- Squeezelite using the Logitech Media Server with the ickStream online streaming services LMS plugin. Squeezelite is a Squeezebox type streamer, so not UPnP. However, there are Squeezebox controller apps that you can use for it on the iPad, eg, iPeng; or simply just use the web browser to access LMS's built-in Squeezebox controller.