Battle of the Entry Level DACs escalates

[jhwalker]

2 hours ago, exdmd said:

 

Yes even the Delta-Sigma Bifrost at $400 has Gen 5 USB (Eitr) built in according to the Schiit website. However Delta-Sigma DACs are generally considered inferior to R-2R ladder DACs like the Bifrost Multibit.

 

I don't know that's a "general" consensus:

 

https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/r2r-ladder-dac-vs-sigma-delta

[bigbob]

13 hours ago, jhwalker said:

 

I don't know that's a "general" consensus:

 

https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/r2r-ladder-dac-vs-sigma-delta

 

I am doing a head to head comparison on Modi 2 (sig/delt) vs. Multibit and in my opinion the $249 unit sounds better than the $99 unit. I realized that is a significant increase for entry level...and both sound better with a Wyrd. Or Eitr if you prefer S/PDIF.

[buonassi]

On 2/25/2018 at 8:12 PM, jhwalker said:

 

I don't know that's a "general" consensus:

 

https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/r2r-ladder-dac-vs-sigma-delta

bookmarked.... excellent read when I can properly devote the attention to it.  FWIW, I prefer my current DS dac to my previous R2R.  

[bigbob]

You know, I have both the d/s version (Modi 2) and the MB (Mimby) in my current testing paradigm.

I can honestly say that the difference is subtle--and in light of the cost differential, it would hardly be a deal breaker if you are on a tight budget. When my test samples are returned, you will not hear me saying--the d/s DAC is just plain horrible. I ordered a Boss DAC for my RasPi through eBay for $62. (To order direct from Allo, it would have been $65 plus $20 shipping--note the savings)

My testing will pick up where I left off--still seeking the best value for a Computer Audiophile on the Cheap music server, as I pit the $99 Modi 2 with iP2 (iPurifier2) against the HAT named Boss. I am hoping that I can replicate the performance experienced by John Darko. I am back in my 'safe zone'-- on the low-end of Hi-Fi...

[bigbob]

This testing phase continues. I am back to 'baseline' which for me is the Delta/Sigma Schiit Modi 2 with the iFi iPurifier2 inline.

 

This is what I own, not what I aspire to own.

 

I am NOT hearing an appreciable difference between the iP2 and the Wyrd. Both are applying ANC or 'de-crapification' adequately for my noise floor to have disappeared, and very crisp attack and decay.

 

Yes, Caroline... there is a difference between the D/S and the Multibit at $249.

Is it a $150 difference? Yes, but only if your budget allows you to make the upgrade.

 

Is anything less than the 'Mimby/Wyrd' so much better as to render the other configuration as 'Un-listenable'?

NO. It is still very listenable.

 

As a Computer Audiophile on the Cheap-- my final conclusions are:

 

If DSD, Bluetooth, and WiFi are important to you-- go for the iFi iOne at$200.

 

If you are at the 'entry-level' then the D/S Modi 2 with either a Wyrd of iPurifier2 is the package at $200.

 

If you have the budget, then I would recommend the "Mimby/Wyrd" at $350.

 

If you prefer the S/PDIF, then choose the Mimby/Eitr for $430. This will give the 'same' as a more expensive DAC and the Gen 5 technology from the Eitr.

 

Finally, if you are at the entry level, and a decent budget to work with- then, by all means, the Schiit Bifrost Multibit at $699 will give you future upgradeability.

 

A $700 Multibit DAC with Gen 5 USB capability begs the question of "on the Cheap"-- but that is for you-- the dedicated listener to decide.

 

By the Way-- all testing was done with 16/44 Redbook CD sampling.

In each case, 24-bit still sounded 'about the same' --which is to say, there may be a difference in SQ, but if another person was loading the playlists, interspersing 24-bit with 16/44, and I had no way to verify-- I would honestly not know the difference.

 

I have a number of 24-bit HDTracks that I cherish, but the other 90% of my collection is plain-old vanilla-- Redbook 16/44. And I don't see a time in the future that I will be buying any DSD at $25/album, nor do I regret having a Modi2/iP2 in my system.

 

The next head-to-head will be when I receive the Allo Boss HAT DAC for my RasPi music server. At $65--it could be the game changer in entry-level, a USB transport and DAC for under $100.

[bigbob]

https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/r2r-ladder-dac-vs-sigma-delta

 

A good, quick read and explanation in an understandable form for the novice audiophiles.

[trl]

Great reading, indeed. Thank you jhwalker and bigbob!

 

I was wondering if anyone did an A/B test between DS vs. R2R using the same headamp and same headphones. I mean really A/B test by using a couple of switches to switch rapidly between R2R and DS (same track, same millisecond, 2 identical foobar playing on the same machine on wasapi). Thanks!

[bigbob]

3 hours ago, trl said:

Great reading, indeed. Thank you jhwalker and bigbob!

 

I was wondering if anyone did an A/B test between DS vs. R2R using the same headamp and same headphones. I mean really A/B test by using a couple of switches to switch rapidly between R2R and DS (same track, same millisecond, 2 identical foobar playing on the same machine on wasapi). Thanks!

 

I am not set-up to do the rapid switching. We listened to a 90-second cut with some layers of voices (Thomas Dolby, "Aliens Ate my Buick" Pulp Culture.

 

 

 

It that comparison, the D/S Modi 2 and the Modi Multibit sounded the same--both benefiting from Noise Cancellation. Overall, the Mimby sounded different than the Modi 2-- which is to say, different is not always 'better' or 'worse', it just is different.

 

For my ears, the Modi 2 is quite listenable, and I would consider the Mimby to be more "creamy" in its presentation. I have been listening to the Mimby/Wyrd for over a week on my main system, and the Modi 2 with iP2 on my second system--and both perform well.  This is a decision that boils down to budget.

 

If you can afford the Mimby/Wyrd or Mimby/Eitr, by all means, make that purchase, you will not regret it.

 

If you are really at entry level, for $150 less, buy the D/S Modi 2 and a Wyrd.

 

My only caution is, that some form of USB noise treatment is desirable with either DAC. The Wyrd and the iP2 cost $99--your choice. (The Wyrd is a better value in that it supplies electrical power where the iP2 runs off the USB bus.)

 

Delta/Sigma vs. R2R Ladder-- another topic for debate. To my ears, there is a difference, but not a significant difference.

[trl]

I was thinking to get a Modi Multibit myself...still unsure where to place it on my desk.

 

Wyrd is a 2.5uV 5V RMS power supply, very respectful noise figure, especially that the lowest USB noise ports I've seen were having few hundreds of uV of noise. Not sure I understand what's inside the iPurifier...looks more like a noise suppression device, right? I wonder what's inside the box and how it works...

 

P.S.: Hope you don't mind much about the OT, but just my 2 cents: might worth building a simple device like the one attached. It took me few minutes to build it and most of the parts were already in my shelf.

 

One switch is for the 6.3mm jacks and the other for the RCA plugs. It's very effective, especially for me that I totally don't trust my audio memory when testing a newly purchased/borrowed equipment.

 

[exdmd]

On 2/27/2018 at 12:26 PM, bigbob said:

This testing phase continues. I am back to 'baseline' which for me is the Delta/Sigma Schiit Modi 2 with the iFi iPurifier2 inline.

 

This is what I own, not what I aspire to own.

 

I am NOT hearing an appreciable difference between the iP2 and the Wyrd. Both are applying ANC or 'de-crapification' adequately for my noise floor to have disappeared, and very crisp attack and decay.

 

Yes, Caroline... there is a difference between the D/S and the Multibit at $249.

Is it a $150 difference? Yes, but only if your budget allows you to make the upgrade.

 

Is anything less than the 'Mimby/Wyrd' so much better as to render the other configuration as 'Un-listenable'?

NO. It is still very listenable.

 

As a Computer Audiophile on the Cheap-- my final conclusions are:

 

If DSD, Bluetooth, and WiFi are important to you-- go for the iFi iOne at$200.

 

If you are at the 'entry-level' then the D/S Modi 2 with either a Wyrd of iPurifier2 is the package at $200.

 

If you have the budget, then I would recommend the "Mimby/Wyrd" at $350.

 

If you prefer the S/PDIF, then choose the Mimby/Eitr for $430. This will give the 'same' as a more expensive DAC and the Gen 5 technology from the Eitr.

 

Finally, if you are at the entry level, and a decent budget to work with- then, by all means, the Schiit Bifrost Multibit at $699 will give you future upgradeability.

 

A $700 Multibit DAC with Gen 5 USB capability begs the question of "on the Cheap"-- but that is for you-- the dedicated listener to decide.

 

By the Way-- all testing was done with 16/44 Redbook CD sampling.

In each case, 24-bit still sounded 'about the same' --which is to say, there may be a difference in SQ, but if another person was loading the playlists, interspersing 24-bit with 16/44, and I had no way to verify-- I would honestly not know the difference.

 

I have a number of 24-bit HDTracks that I cherish, but the other 90% of my collection is plain-old vanilla-- Redbook 16/44. And I don't see a time in the future that I will be buying any DSD at $25/album, nor do I regret having a Modi2/iP2 in my system.

 

The next head-to-head will be when I receive the Allo Boss HAT DAC for my RasPi music server. At $65--it could be the game changer in entry-level, a USB transport and DAC for under $100.

 

@bigbob the Schiit Bifrost Multibit Gen 5 is $599 not $699. Good deal IMO.

[buonassi]

7 hours ago, trl said:

 

P.S.: Hope you don't mind much about the OT, but just my 2 cents: might worth building a simple device like the one attached. It took me few minutes to build it and most of the parts were already in my shelf.

 

One switch is for the 6.3mm jacks and the other for the RCA plugs. It's very effective, especially for me that I totally don't trust my audio memory when testing a newly purchased/borrowed equipment.

 

 

 

If you're not electronics savvy, Sescom makes switches that do this - and they're not expensive that I recall.  

http://www.sescom.com/productlist.asp?cat=Audio-Switchers

 

[bigbob]

18 hours ago, exdmd said:

 

@bigbob the Schiit Bifrost Multibit Gen 5 is $599 not $699. Good deal IMO.

 

Thanks, I keep adding the $99 for a Wyrd...forgetting that the Gen 5 Eitr technology is built in... I agree that would be the penultimate DAC.