Router Enhancement

[sandyk]

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:36 AM, davide256 said:

All I detect is a high BS factor that will waste others money on still points for the wrong gear... my ethics don't allow me to stay quiet  in those cases.

 

BS Factor ? 

Some capacitors for example, are vibration sensitive. (microphonic) This is especially true of larger ceramic types.

 Xtals as used in Xtal oscillators are also affected by vibration and should be isolated from vibration as much as possible.

Even some physically large electrolytic capacitors are affected by vibration and sound better when suitably dampened.

 

Abstract:
Very often, actual, measured levels of vibration-induced phase noise in signal generation equipment are significantly higher than predicted.
 In many cases, this is because the frequency sensitivity of the oscillator or oscillator resonator to vibration was assumed to be the sole  source of the degradation. As improvements in oscillator output signal static phase noise and vibration sensitivity have been realized, the effects of vibration in non-oscillator components and assemblies have become more dominant and cannot be ignored.
Primary contributors to vibration-induced signal phase modulation include coaxial cables and cable connectors, narrowband filters, and enclosure mechanical resonances and non-linearities. Accurate measurement of vibration-induced, signal spectral degradation is often difficult due to the influence of both the measurement environment and test apparatus. In addition, isolating and eliminating the cause of out-of-spec hardware performance is time consuming and expensive. This paper will describe potential sources of vibration-induced signal spectral degradation and methods for obtaining and verifying adequately low vibration sensitivity in non-oscillator hardware.
      
 Published in:  Frequency Control Symposium, 2007 Joint with the 21st European Frequency and Time Forum. IEEE International

 

See also:

https://product.tdk.com/en/contact/faq/31_singing_capacitors_piezoelectric_effect.pdf

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/128892/quantifying-the-piezoelectric-effect-of-ceramic-capacitors

[sandyk]

36 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

how does vibration affect a digital signal?  and if it does, what level is needed to do so?

 

* that is the fly in the ointment

 

Jitter .

 "Google is your friend"

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, plissken said:

Tidal was sounding a bit thin and veiled. I just sent them still points to house all their server racks on. You're welcome everyone.

 

I hope that you still have enough money left over to fund your BS challenges to those you don't agree with ?

(>90% of C.A. members most likely)

[sandyk]

58 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

apparently it is not yours

 

Besides confusing a mechanical vibration with analog electronics, you have conflated both with a digital signal.

 

Now without a glib know-nothing reply can you explain how jitter is introduced in a router???

 

 Do more research yourself.

 I have no desire to play your stupid games Mr. TROLL !

 BYE !

 

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, davide256 said:

Doesn't sound like you are trained in digital electronics and information transmission.

 

 I don't give a stuff whether people like yourself who think that they know everything about the Audio area associated with Digital Audio accept or not, what VERY large numbers of C.A.   members are telling you they are hearing due to other factors that do not apply to purely Data functions. Do yourselves a favour and read some of the very informative posts and explanations by highly qualified members such as John Swenson in the Uptone and other areas of this forum..

 You may even learn something from the discussions elsewhere involving John Swenson, Charles Hansen and "the father" of Async USB Audio, Gordon Rankin.

 

It would be greatly appreciated if several of you stopped deliberately trashing every thread that you do not agree with.

Do we once again need to ask Admin to step in ?

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/draft?page=1

https://www.audiostream.com/content/theres-no-such-thing-digital-conversation-charles-hansen-gordon-rankin-and-steve-silberman-p

http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital

http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits

https://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound

 

[sandyk]

34 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Sandyk... every piece of content above has to do with after data arrives across the network to a PC or renderer and is stripped out of its frame and packet header for internal processing into a digital audio signal. None of it applies to data in transit inside a packet/frame transport envelope. I do follow and generally endorse the content above for the issues of getting audio data cleanly output, whether it be from HDD locally or from network after frame/packet envelope removal. But these articles are not germane to network data transmission.

 

 What on earth do you think we are talking about here ?

 We are talking about computer derived Audio. 

You, like several other members, steadfastly refuse to accept that things like the quality of the power supply area, the stability of the PC's internal Xtal clock,(Paul Pang etc. supply higher quality Clocks)  even the amount of RF/EMI generated by PWM controlled fans DO affect the SQ of exported Audio.

C.A. is far from the only Forum where large numbers of members now accept that the SQ of digital Audio is not governed merely by the 1s and 0s being correct, as they invariably are almost all of the time !

Even unplugging a Broadband Router using an SMPS while ripping and playing, can affect the SQ of digital audio, and it is not unknown that even reducing the number of non essential processes, or using SAFE MODE in a PC while ripping or playing may affect the final SQ results.

 

Not that I expect that you will believe any of that though!

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

Ripping?  What kind of software are you using that doesn't have error checking and data validation?

 

When will you people get it through your thick heads that there is far more to the SQ of digital Audio than just the 1s and 0s being correct at the time they are exported ?

 All of the ripped sets of comparison .wav files that I supplied to Martin Colloms from Hi Fi Critic magazine for DBT purposes several years ago had identical .md5 checksums, yet were correctly identified in 6 separate DBT sessions at different dates.

IIRC, there were 8 comparisons at each of those 6 separate sessions. 48 out of 48, POSITIVE results is far from the toss of a coin !

 

 Did you read any of the material at the links I recently provided in this thread ? 

[sandyk]

Just now, michaelD said:

I’m the originator and this thread has gotten way off course.  I told about my personal experience with putting vibration control under a router.  Note the word personal.   Please keep it to your own actual experiences only!

 

Hi Michael

 Vibration control is beneficial with almost every piece of electronic equipment.

It is usually taken into account during the actual design process of the equipment, within cost restraints dictated by the bean counters.

 Expensive CD/DVD players such as some from Sony etc.(e.g.SA11)  don't just use honeycomb construction in the metal work so that the customer thinks that because it is heavier than average, that it must have more inside it !

Even taking a decent quality DVD/BR player off the equipment shelf and placing it on a carpeted floor, can  alter how it sounds to some extent !

 

Regards

Alex

 

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

So now what?

 

Try reading the links that I provided where highly experienced designers discuss this area!

Perhaps even Gordon Rankin who invented Async USB isn't experienced enough in this area for your liking ?

Incidentally, why are you even bothering about very high quality, AND expensive PSUs for your digital gear if the relatively low noise level from a LM317T etc.  voltage regulator can't possibly affect the digital area ?  Hedging your bets perhaps ?

 I gather that you probably do agree though, that it IS important for the Analogue area though ?

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

You need to calm down. I completely understand that there is more to this that the data making it across the cable intact. What bothers me is people keep trying to suggest that the data doesn't make it across the cable intact....which just isn't the case.

 

My replies aren't just aimed at you, they are also aimed at the silent majority of members who read these threads.

 I believe that the vast majority of C.A. members DO accept what you and others are saying about it being very rare for there to be actual Data errors.

 This is an area where we need members with your expertise to work with other members who report

situations where results don't fully agree with currently accepted dogma, in order to further the SQ of digital audio.

 

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

If I power my router with a linear power supply, will Wikipedia articles be more accurate?

 

The accuracy of Wikipedia articles is governed solely by the verified quality of the input, which would appear to rule out virtually every member that primarily posts in the General area of this forum in respect to Computer Audio.

 

You don't need to use a Linear supply for a Router to help with the overall SQ of your system.

Try earthing the 0 volts side of it's SMPS plugpack as John Swenson has suggested.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

There's always going to be those that dismiss the experience of the OP,  we know who you are, the vocal minority thread crappers, just look outside the bubble for a change. We don't need saving our souls, if you don't like the topic pi$$ off.

 

 

                                                       +21 (count them)

 

Click on image for a larger image.

[sandyk]

Quote

Anything in the chain in front of a DAC has the ability to alter its sound,
 since even small amounts of noise interfere with the D to A conversion.
 If a router is in the chain preceding the DAC, then yes it can affect the DAC.
 ......Anyway, I'm open to anti vibration measures for any signal path component,
but first remove the electrical noise, since this evil needs to be tamed

Back to serious again.

 I completely agree with one and a half!

Anti Vibration is the icing on the cake.