Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[Dev]

No firm dates yet but Alvin said in an email conversation sometime this quarter. Even before supporting DSD512, I would like to get the loud popping noise when changing sample rate sorted out in the next firmware release.

[Dev]

13 minutes ago, luisma said:

My Amanero firmware is working great no loud popping noises, I mean there is a pop noise only at the start but not that loud or annoying and I stay fixed at DSD256, did you updated the firmware DEV?

I am running 1099c I believe

 

 

Is there a way to check the firmware version ? I haven't upgraded anything since the factory install. The loud pops are mainly when changing sample rate from DSD to PCM. There are faint pops when changing PCM rates, for example, from 44.1k to 192k as well but they aren't that loud. I believe if you upsample everything to DSD256, then all these issues are redundant. Which s/w are you using to upsample ?

 

 

[Dev]

4 hours ago, jmpsmash said:

 

I managed to get the latest firmware from Alvin and now native DSD256 works!

 

 

AFAIK, native dsd256 always worked right from the release of this DAC. Did you mean dsd512 instead ?
 

[Dev]

Alvin,

 

When the new release happens for supporting dsd512, I am interested to know if the internal SRC will also upsample to 512 as well when fed with lower sample rate ?

[Dev]

I tired up-sampling to dsd256 earlier (w/ both Roon and HQPe) but ended up passing native signal and OS mode. Sounds pretty good.

[Dev]

4 minutes ago, elan120 said:

That is interesting to know that you prefer native input with OS mode over up-sampled DSD256 with NOS.  When mine arrive, I will see how feeding with higher DSD signal with NOS mode work in my system.

 

I forgot to add, I am using Matrix SPDIF2 convertor in between to get I2S to the Termi. Also, though the i7 NUC I am using as the source is quiet capable of up-sampling in Roon and some of the HQP filters, if not all, I don't have a high power server - this might have an effect on SQ on up-sampled traffic in my case but I can't tell for sure. I think the OS mode is well optimized to work with the rest of the R2R circuit.

 

[Dev]

Mine is already ordered

 

Apart from dsd512/1024 (which I wasn't too interested) this update also opens up dual AES/EBU support and that means addition of M-scaler is a possibility.

 

Can't wait to find out what more it brings to an otherwise a very fine DAC.

 

 

 

[Dev]

1 minute ago, rothosand said:

Ok, but apparently it is a hardware upgrade. The new DSP board can be purchased separately :

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/dsp-board-terminator-dac

 

But is it possible to do the upgrade by ourselves ?

 

Yes, its user upgrade-able.

[Dev]

The daughter DSP board sitting on top on the main board is the updated board.

 

 

[Dev]

1 minute ago, rothosand said:

Where can I find the instructions to do so ?

 

I'd like to see if it is really easy or rather tricky... I wouldn't want to have to send it back to Singapore if I make a mistake...

 

I don't have the instructions myself but I am told its user replaceable. Conjecturing from the internal pictures that I posted earlier, you simple remove the top lid by unscrewing the two back screws, then remove the DSP board and replace it with the new one. I assume they will have detail instructions when you get the new board.

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Same here, but I will have the DAC with new DSD board instead.  Very much looking forward to check what DSD1024 sound like.

 

Congrats! It's indeed a great DAC.

 
Over the coarse of time I have tried upsampling to DSD256 with both Roon Sox filter and HQP but I

have now come down passing native bits and turn on OS mode.

 

You will need a very powerful CPU to do DSD1024 though 😊

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

Just a little over $200 is also a steal for such a big upgrade!

 

yes and exactly the reason why I have already placed my ordered 😊

[Dev]

57 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Has this been sorted out?

Does it happen to all Terminator users or just you, Dev?

Does the loud popping noise occur when you manually change sample rate, or when the DAC automatically responds to a different sample rate files arriving - or both?

thanks

James

 

AFAIK, the pop with sample rate changes is a known issue with Amanero firmware and should happen to all Termi. I confirmed that I have the latest firmware on mine as well. That was my request to Alvin/Denafrips a while back to fix this in their new DSP board and they have done it (pending verification when mine arrives).

 

So if you already have Termi, my suggestion would be to get the new board - it's a no brainier. If you haven't got a Termi, now would be a good time to get one 😀

[Dev]

2 hours ago, elan120 said:

I am not Alvin, but to your question, the answer is yes, STM32F446 MCU is on this new DSD board (see below RED circle).

 

 

You probably meant new DSP board....

 

Does the STM32F446 MCU replace the existing Amanero USB receiver ? If so, does anyone know if this USB receiver Id is already patched in the Linux kernel ? Denafrips website claims Linux is supported but I haven't heard about this chip earlier.

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Thanks Dev.

I am indeed, unde-Terminatored, i.e. my DAC is a Naim 272.

I love the 272 with the dCS Network Bridge, but I sense the Terminator might be a step up again (note the British understatement there).

Perhaps with a Naim Supernait 2 integrated amp (now that Naim are leaking the fact that they are launching a Supernait 3 in July).

Can you answer any of my Qs above, Dev?

e.g. do you know how often the Terminator will need servicing?

 

 

Termi doesn't need any servicing unless there is a problem in the electronics. I didn't have to do any so far. Hardware upgrades, like this new DSP board, are very very rare and can only be performed if the DAC has a modular design. In most cases other companies would release a new DAC with this new DSP board and called it V2. Can you explain what's in your mind and why do you think servicing is necessary ?

 

7 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Can you explain - even vaguely - how it works? i.e. in OS mode, does it take all incoming PCM and upsample that to much higher sampling frequencies? I only listen to Tidal so at present there is unlikely to be any DSD coming into my DAC.

Or is the operation of previous and new Terminator a mystery - and we're supposed to just buy one and enjoy...?

 

Yes, it takes PCM and DSD stream and upsamples it to higher rate when OS mode is selected (red led off). The upsampling algo is not known (and I don't care much as long as it sounds good and it does). The new Termi will operate the same way - there is no operational difference. Yes, off-coarse, buy one and enjoy 😊

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Thanks Dev - that's very useful.

I actually only asked about servicing as most hifi equipment that contains capacitors will tend to need servicing after say 10 to 15 years as the caps eventually dry out and get replaced.

 

I can almost guarantee that you would not be keeping the DAC for 10yrs and expect to service. This is not just with Denafrips but any brands you might consider, irregardless of their price. The digital world is changing so fast that you never know what you will end up with in the next yr or so 

Analog components are another matter....

 

Irrespective if you need service and in the US, I think they have service center over here...Alvin will be able to share more details if you contact him directly...
 

[Dev]

1 minute ago, rothosand said:

So you recommend to turn the Terminator off when not in use, in order to save the lifetime of the capacitors ?

 

I don't know what is recommended from Denafrips but my Terminator (and all DACs that I have used earlier) is always on - it takes a while for the clocks to stabilize and solid state devices to warm up from a cold start. Tube gears takes much less time. 

[Dev]

Has anyone received their new DSP board yet ? I am very eager to find details on the level of Linux support.

[Dev]

1 minute ago, elan120 said:

I will soon...got the tracking information last week, and the unit is in route.

 

Cool. When did you order ? I have not got any tracking yet though I believe I ordered it even before it was released to the public.

[Dev]

51 minutes ago, elan120 said:

 

Just received mine, took a little time to have it all put together, and the first test went nicely, am able to upsampled to PCM1536 with no issue via AL endpoint.  Sound is already very impressive cold out of the box with no burn-in, overall, I am quite happy with the initial impression.  With my current server, running DSD1024 will require more powerful GPU, which I will settle with DSD512 for now and revisit it again once I have everything settled.

 

 

 

That's cool 👍 wait for it to fully burn-in and you will then be highly rewarded.

 

Did you try playing Native DSD content ?

 

 

[Dev]

10 hours ago, elan120 said:

Not yet playing with Native DSD files, but for sure will do that tomorrow.  I speculate my server will upsample DSD files to DSD1024 with no issue, which I will report back with results.

 

Hope you will get yours soon, it is very joyful listens to this new setup.

 

If you have DSD content, you can try playing without up-sampling and see if it can play Native or Dop. Though I am told that the receiver is UAC2.0 complaint which will play PCM without issues, the native DSD playback is still unknown at this point until someone tries it out. 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

Confirmed.  Runs fine without issue.

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation. Do you know if its playing Native or Dop ? HQP settings would tell you if its SDM or Dop.

[Dev]

10 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Guys,

With this new DSP board, do you think we can forgo any DDC like Gustard U16 or singxer U6 in the chain which we use for is2 connection? Thank you. Reason I am asking is cause I am thinking of dumping my Gustard U16 and get a Singxer U6. Thank you lots in advance.

 

I have tried the Matrix SPDIF2 and Singxer SU6. After using them for prolonged time I moved back to USB direct as the DDC's sounded thin compared. Introducing a DDC in-between puts a big requirement on what power supply is being used with them. If they aren't top notch and assuming your streamer is excellent, you are better off going direct to USB - at least this is what I have found in my system.

[Dev]

28 minutes ago, elan120 said:

I did both ways, and no issue in either case, so looks like a go.

 

Thanks. That's a big assurance to know when I get mine, its good to go right off the bat 🙂

 

[Dev]

Same here. I have been eagerly waiting but nothing yet. Some here bought the DAC new which seems to come with the newer DSP board which contradicts the fact that the board is still under testing. I am not sure what the issue is.