SMPS and grounding

[charlesphoto]

Made up about a half dozen of these over the weekend and have another batch coming. Putting them on everything - a couple of Netgear   GS108 switches, FMC’s on the main and office systems, and the Vortexbox (using an iFi 2.5mm adapter as JS suggested). When I get more, they’ll go on the upstairs switch, modem, AirPort Extreme, even the Roku next to the audio system. So far they’ve made a big but subtle impact - no more upper register hash, and the bass is full but detailed. Wonderful tweak for next to nothing - did the whole house for less than one iFi version would cost - $10 in adapters, $35 for seven plugs, and the cable already laying around. Notice the difference in both setups. 

 

One tip - insert the stranded ground wire (I’m using 18g  lamp wire) into the adapter first and then the solid nub of 14g. These adapters worked just fine: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0127J7NWE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[charlesphoto]

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

But if anyone comes across units that display continuity (as above), please e-mail me with the brand and model.  Even if you don't discover a brand whose whole line is correct for us, maybe there will be a model or two.  It's worth knowing.

 

I have one of these Indeed ultra low noise adapters currently powering the modem into the house. It has the double insulated symbol and Class II rating on the case, and in the description says it's grounded. Unfortunately I don't have a three wire continuity checker. $17.99 on eBay, 12V only. 

 

http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=250734255819&t=1457554608000&tid=10&category=56172&seller=indeed-hi-fi-lab&excSoj=1&excTrk=1&lsite=0&ittenable=false&domain=ebay.com&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=1&secureDesc=0

 

I would say it's most likely based on this one, which is half the price:

 

https://www.amazon.com/CAIXING-Switching-100-240V-Transformers-Security/dp/B0735G19BP/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509318785&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=12v++caixing&psc=1

 

I will say, that the ground shunt trick has totally transformed my system. And even putting one on the Roku (which is powered on a different circuit from the hifi but lives next to it) I could swear the picture is brighter and sharper and the sound better. So far I've put them (ten in all) on most everything in the house that connects with the wired ethernet (Mac Pro, newer AE, and Xbox not included) and so I'm not particularly sure which is doing the most good, or if it's a cumulative effect. Whatever, it's almost like somebody delivered a bigger better system (esp the amp) to my house, for under $50 at that. Thank you John Swenson! 

[charlesphoto]

Interesting. I'm currently using a GS108NA with the ground shunt and powered by an "El Cheapo" Lps. It has other traffic on it though than just the hifi. I have an eBay FS105NA for $10 coming so will isolate the streamer and server on that with a ground shunt and see what happens.

 

As far as I'm concerned the grounding I did upstream hasn't hurt, esp as I had a bunch of extra adapters and it's really easy to do. I'm quite sensitive to EMF so getting the overall level down is always good. That said I wouldn't go out of your way or break the bank (i.e. silver wire nonsense) for these. But I do notice a difference when I unplug the ground shunt from the HDPLEX 160 which powers the downstream FMC and the LPS-1 and an iSPDIF Purifier for the TV. Shunts for all three run into the same socket which is plugged into a dedicated circuit along with the HDPLEX. Unplugged lots more sibilance.  

[charlesphoto]

4 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

2. You can have other devices on the same switch, but it is best to keep at least 1 empty port between cables.  John has explained why in his posts.

 

 

I have not seen this explanation. Why is that? 

 

I would say that for what these switches cost (esp used) in relation to the rest of one’s system, just dedicate if possible one to the hifi only. I have a fairly full GS108 currently, but ordered a like new $10 FS105NA off eBay to isolate the streamer and server. Needed more room anyway. 

 

Personally, I’ve gone and grounded just about everything dc that even remotely comes into contact with the hifi and Ethernet and think it’s made a huge difference - transformative. No idea how much of it actually affects sound quality directly, but I am quite sensitive to EMF and can feel the overall level come down, esp in the TV/stereo corner, server closet, etc. I think even the Roku’s look and sound better. I could just be high too..... but at the cost I figured why not? 

[charlesphoto]

Ok. Not exactly sure what or where to search - this forum has became a bit dense to just put in switch and ports and find an easy search result.

[charlesphoto]

Got my $10 eBay FS105 (v3) last night. It’s powered by a cheap Y split with the GS108 preceding it from an El Cheapo LPS. Cables in ports as specified. Sounds really good, though only marginally better than the GS108 alone with other traffic on it. Piano and cymbals really sound like such - no glare or artifacts. 

 

I do go from the FS105 with a generic Cat6 cable into a pair of FMC’s, and then with a Melcord Opal UTP cable into the rendu. Tried direct bypassing the FMC’s and while the sound signature overall didn’t change much there was just a bit of hash and sibilance to the top end. Same goes for unplugging the ground shunt for the LPS-1 and downstream FMC both powered by the HDPLEX.

 

Anyway, I’m at the set and forget stage now. The ground shunts are here to stay. Next up 1.4 board upgrade for the rendu, and tweaks needed on the analog side of things. 

[charlesphoto]

10 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

I know your research is still on-going on all this stuff and will take some amount of time.

 

But given the fact that FMC's aren't that much more expensive than the network switches you've recommended, I wonder why this isn't the preferred option for the most downstream ethernet point, given leakage currents would be fully blocked by the optical isolation?

 

We could still use your SMS grounding method on the FMC SMPS's.

 

Would be interested in your preliminary thoughts, if that's possible.

 

Cheers! Sean.

 

 

I’ve left my TP-Link 10/100 FMC’s in, on both my main system (microRendu 1.3 with USBCP, LPS-1, into Naim DAC V1) and office (naim UnitiQute). I can hear a difference with or without, and prefer with. The expense is not that big. For how basic my system is - the V1 feeds a rebuilt vintage Naim 110 amp into Rega RX3 speakers - it sounds much bigger for a lot less than one might think. The ground shunt trick has been transformative for my system - I did EVERYTHING, including Vortexbox server, Roku’s nearby, FMC’s, two GS108 switches (one directly before office system), an FS105 directly before FMC’s to rendu, the HDPLEX to LPS-1 connection, the iFi SPDIF purifier into the V1 for the TV connection, (also HDPLEX). Switch upstairs not done yet (Roku is), but hey, I’m not obsessing about it.

 

Anyway, even if all of this has no direct effect on the sound quality, things should be grounded, right? It’s a cheap tweak, fun to do, and will only do good (big no no on double insulated Class II devices though). I wouldn’t doubt we’ll see audiophile ones on the market soon enough. Due to family considerations space is tight. The server and switches are in a closet in the office directly below - I think anything to bring down the EMF of this mess is a good thing. I can feel it. Anyway, as is required to state, YMMV. I also wouldn’t put these adapters on anything high level, such as the LPS-1 to Rendu connection. 

 

I have serious tinnitus from being a rock and roll photographer, and also anything to attenuate high frequencies is fine by me. My system is so damn fatigue free now. I also had a few Ethernet cables on hand to “tune” things. In the end it was AQ Cinnamon from Vortexbox to switch, Monoprice Cat 6 to FMC, Melcord Opal to rendu. I also tried some basic Cat 7 Teragrand in the mix,. Pretty good, very neutral. Wanted to seek the Cinnamon as I always found it too thin in bass in the system, but now just right out of the server (still too thin up top), and also in the office for the last leg to the UQ. The increase in bass, and frankly decibels, has been that great. My 30 watt amp suddenly feels like a 45. (Which in Naim world is like many others 75). 

 

Anyway, much thanks to John Swenson for this tweak. How are you settling in in our fine state? Here come the cold and rain. We find skiing and/or a Hawaii vacation is the way to make it through. 

 

Best,

 

CP

 

 

[charlesphoto]

Sage advice. I’ve tried ungrounding the last leg FMC and the LPS-1 and it sounds worse. Always at the very top end. Maybe a tad more exciting for lack of a better term but that quickly gets fatiguing. Like I said, nothing grounded post FMC and both the Naims of course plug grounded to their own dedicated circuit, the HDPLEX with ground shunt on it’s own circuit, the upstream FMC on the TV circuit with an iFi, the server and switch on the basement office circuit, modem on another circuit, and so on. So pretty well sussed on the network side and I’m pretty happy to just sleep on it for now. Next challenge to get the AirPort Extreme up and out of the basement into a centrally located closet. Then a 1.4 board grade, Herbie’s footers for the Rega’s, a starquad cable for the LPS-1 to rendu. 

[charlesphoto]

And here is the spaghetti. Room is tight due to family considerations. The far power strip you see is for the AV and upstream FMC, on a different circuit. Two dedicated 20amp circuits in the foreground. Actually have tacked to the bottom of this reinforced Ikea cabinet I use for the hifi, the excess NACA5 speaker cable concertinaed and so out of the way and not touching anything. Is this our OCD outlet? And of course the talk is now of re-situating the furniture when we get new and panic ensued. "You'll figure it out" end of subject. And of course I will. Part of the fun. A new remodel with oak floors and as much rockwall insulation as possible made a huge difference as well. 

 

 

[charlesphoto]

And here is the closet directly below. After last year my hifi budget for this was set to $0. Broken so far only by the ground shunts. Otherwise making do with collected on hand and it sounds fabulous to me. 

[charlesphoto]

And just for fun, what is in front of all those guts.  As you can see, it's a shared family room - that's my daughter's refrigerator costume between the speakers - things get pushed out of the way for family out/asleep serious listening time. Next to the HDPLEX on the upper shelf is a pair of B&W P7's in the case. Mostly for TV listening through the V1. Got an extension cord from Ghent - highly recommended. Otherwise speakers far too close together but since it's pretty near field listening mostly and a treated room it doesn't matter that much. Like I said will change....

 

 

[charlesphoto]

12 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

I got more spaghetti, spaghettini, linguine than that lot!

 

I’m blaming alex, js & jesus.

 

Oh I'm sure! When I see some of your system signatures it boggles...

[charlesphoto]

3 hours ago, wakka992 said:

@JohnSwenson

Hi John, thank you for your endless discovery/test for us, the audiophiles on a budget!

As I don't know what a "silicon cable/green cable" are I was wondering if I could use a stripped starquad mogami/canare 24AWG cable to ground my SMPS.

Thanks for your time

 

You can use any wire from 14g and smaller (two 14’s might be a squeeze in those adapters). It’s just a ground drain and then quality of the wire should have no impact. I used some basic 18g lamp wire I had around. Green is recommended for visual safety purpose but it could be anything - mine are white with a bright yellow plug, several of which I’ve done as a hydra. See pic above - the yellow socket goes to three items, and if I decide to do my turntable (need more adapters) then it will be four. 

[charlesphoto]

This tweak has changed my life - seriously. My tinnitus has been considerably lower since I ground shunted everything. More relaxed I should say. I think it’s getting rid of that high level brashness that’s made a real change. Instruments sound like real instruments vs recorded. I can finally listen to Miles at higher volumes and not react in pain. 

 

Don’t hand wring this one. At $1 an adapter and $5 a plug (and yes you can hydra the ground wire) and some cheap cable, it’s a no brainer. And a $10-25 Netgear FS105/108 or GS105/108 switch if you don’t have already. I had two GS108’s already and picked up an FS105 to dedicate to the Vortexbox and rendu. Big no no to already grounded items and Class II wall warts. Use ring spades if worried about the adapters degrading cable quality, but I think for low level items the barrel adapters are just fine. I don’t have a Dremel tool or the patience it seems needed for rings. You don’t need silver wire or Furutech plugs, but certainly go there if you like - it’s your money. I think the first thing you’ll think about is upgrading your analog gear side vs more cables. 

 

I would be interested in somebody’s opinion on using it on a Roku. I could swear the picture and sound is better on ours. Those things must leak like a sieve. It’s an adapter kludge (right one is in the iPower box), but I wonder what powering a Roku off of an LPS plus ground shunt would be like? I have the TV sound going toslink via the DAC V1 and an iSPDIF Purifier (powered by HDPLEX and ground shunted, of course) so it sounds pretty good though. But even the sound via the crappy TV speakers sounds better. That’s what struck me first. 

[charlesphoto]

A bit confused about these Groundhog devices. Would they work, or are they needed, on something like my Naim DAC V1, which is obviously grounded via the power cable to a dedicated 20amp Porter Port socket? It has RCA outs (I use the DIN out to a Naim amp) and RCA SPDIF in (digital inputs only). It also has the option for chassis ground or floating - I use chassis. Would the GH just create a ground loop? Would rather not go there unless it would mean a big jump in sq (and not blowing up my DAC) as it would mean introducing a power strip in order to plug in the ground (the two outlet socket is used by the DAC and amp). 

[charlesphoto]

Thanks John for taking the time to answer. Sounds like that would be a ground too far but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I’m so incredibly appreciative of the ground shunt trick you’ve shared with us. All the best from Seattle. CP

[charlesphoto]

4 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Well, nanny state is not a concept honoured by me. But ... if our place burns down, the insurance companies will find plenty in my audio gear to justify a knock back on any claims ...

 

Might I suggest giving the adapter a quick wrap in electrical tape (or heat shrink). Looks “safer” that way though I’m sure fine without. 

[charlesphoto]

I’d say you can’t go wrong either way. I use both hydras and one of those three prong adapters in my office - two iFi’s and the ground plug into it and the Unitiqute into the other socket. Hydra’s are fine if you don’t have the room or don’t want to introduce a power strip or adapters if you don’t have to. Individual’s better if moving things around, though leaving a bare shunt not on a hydra not a problem. 

[charlesphoto]

You may want to check out the HDPLEX 200w new version. I have the 100w and like it as it’s so flexible, esp with the 5-19v adjustable rail. The new one looks even better. Also much more resale value and flexibility, plus you could power a server with it if need be. Not sure what shipping would be, (they have a warehouse in LA and Germany if I’m correct) but you’re only $75 more than the Chinese one with it’s $60 shipping. My two cents. 

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-200w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html

 

[charlesphoto]

Well I’ve been running the LPS-1 for a year now with the 12V rail of the HDPLEX and no issues. Runs much cooler than with the iPower 9V I tried it with first. But I’m pretty sure my HD is a later build. Maybe I’ll play it safe and contact them. The HD also powers an FMC (9V adjustable rail) and an iFi SPDIF Purifier for the TV (5V rail). 

[charlesphoto]

19 hours ago, H-Man said:

I am a bit lost for words... I have been part of the camp that has said that ethernet does not have any sound... Now I have tested this tweak on the switch I have in front of my Kef LS50W and this tweak impacts the sound... To be fair this is about the SMPS powering the Ethernet switch but still I would have considered this “snake-oil” before I tested. I need some time before passing final word and getting rid of any kind of confirmation bias.

 

Well think about RCA interconnects - they only attach at two points. Whereas Ethernet cable gets attached over and over again to noisy small electronics and picking up electrical detritus along the way as well as sending the bits. A good revealing DAC can’t tell what’s noise and what’s music, so source in really counts. Glad you tried it! 

[charlesphoto]

GX-16 2 pin. 

[charlesphoto]

I have a JSGT on my HDPLEX 100 powering my LPS-1 with the 12v rail and i think it makes a difference. 

[charlesphoto]

micrroRendu

[charlesphoto]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

As a true experimental Swede, you’re obligated to do. Period. ?

 

Here is a two months trail for Roon

NL1601HBPROJECT

 

If you own that specific Qnap you’re mentioning, I don’t think it’s a winner, but almost anything else you have available as a computer will most likely do. 

 

 

 

Thanks, don’t mind if I do! Tried it once soon after it came out and was a bit erm... but now that I have an iPad that I can actually control it with I think I’ll try it again. For now would need to load it on my 2013 Mac Pro in the office. Def not a low power low noise device, but we’ll see...