Antelope Isochrone + ULN8/Model 4

[barrows]

I cannot, and would not presume, to deny all of these listening results, but they do make me very curious as to what is really going on here-a well designed Firewire interface, with a decently designed clock circuit, should achieve jitter levels in the 2 digit range (of pS). The Antelope products (OCX and Trinity) appear to use a digital synthesizer to generate the appropriate frequency (with either an internal crystal, or the external 10M for reference). My understanding of digital clock synthesizers is that they are not all that accurate, regardless of what they use for a reference. I could be wrong with my understanding of how the Antelope clocks work-their website is not entirely forthcoming, and required some "reading between the lines" on my part to come to my understanding. Considering the the losses in transmission of the clock signal through transmitter and receiver circuits, cable, and connectors-it is hard to fathom that lower jitter comes from using an external clock-unless the internal clocks in the ULN8 and Orpheus are not that well implemented(??)

I would love to hear the thoughts of some engineers on this subject, like Gordon and Pat.

As to cables, at this level of refinement, I would expect the clock cable to make a big difference-pure silver might not matter though (vs. silver plated copper) as a high frequency clock signal is all going to be carried on the skin of the conductor anyway, an air dialectric might help though (like Nordost Silver Shadow).

 

[ciamara]

Silverlight -- thanks for sharing here!

 

We are a dealer for Antelope, so I'll keep this fact-based. I spoke with Antelope this past week, and they feel the best combination is the 10M + Trinity. (This shouldn't be surprising, since these are their flagship products.) The Trinity has a USB connection to allow you to control the clock from your computer via a console application. At present, the sample rate must be changed manually (either on the front panel of the unit or via the application). I explained to them that this is an issue for computer audiophiles that listen to music with different sample rates. And they are working on an update to their software application to link into Amarra and thereby have the clock switch rates automatically. They indicated this update may happen fairly soon (2-3 months), but of course, there can never be any guarantees. I, for one, am hoping this will happen soon.

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

Sanjay

 

what's the availability for their new Zodiac DACs?

 

I believe the Zodiac Gold or Plus will likely be my next DAC. Sweetwater has the basic model listed on their site, but with unknown availability.

 

any information on arrival would be great

clay

 

[silverlight]

Sanjay - that's great news! based on earlier feedback I've already got an OCX to Trinity swap this week for sonic reasons and this makes me feel even better. The software is effectively a remote control now, but auto clock rate switching by Amarra is brilliant. thx for the update.

 

[ciamara]

All three models of the Zodiac should be available very soon, from what I've been told. I already have the price list in hand and will be placing orders this week. I would expect delivery in a few weeks, but can confirm with you if you like.

 

[earflappin]

Sanjay, I think it would be great if you could confirm accurate availability dates for the various Zodiak models as I have seen some posts out there that inferred that the basic model was still 3 months out and that the Plus and Gold were further out yet. Thanks.

 

[ciamara]

@earflappin

 

I'd be happy to do so. I'll get a definite answer this week and come back. Please remind me if I forget to post.

 

[av_passion]

Sanjay,

 

I too would be interested in hearing the release dates on the Zodiac's.

 

James

 

[ted_b]

re: the standard Zodiac (as posted earlier, they have it on their website). It doesn't have a clock input, but the alert will be some indication of Antelope's DAC production readiness regardless.

 

[earflappin]

This was posted by another poster recently here on CA regarding the availability of the Zodiak DAC's:

 

"Just a disappointing update on the Antelope Zodiac DAC. I was going to try the Zodiac Plus model out through Sweetwater and their original release date was early January. I was excited to be honest and wanted to post a review here on CA. A Sweetwater rep contacted me recently and said Antelope had pushed back the release of the Basic model to June. The Plus and Gold models would not be released at the same time as the Basic but did not have info on a specific time frame. Bummer."

 

[ted_b]

but since Sanjay seemed to have newer, more inside info I thought I'd post that I just registered for an instock email notifcation...to see if the new info comes true or not.

 

[ciamara]

I just re-confirmed with our contact at Antelope. The Zodiac Plus will is expected to ship March 1st. The Zodiac Gold is targeted to ship May 1. Let me know if we can be helpful. Happy listening.

 

[earflappin]

Thanks for the update Sanjay. That's a bit sooner than others had inferred....good news. Has anyone heard the Zodiac yet who can share some impressions? I have yet to see anyone post any listening impressions. Personally, given Antelope's prowess in clocking technology I have high hopes for their line of DAC's. One of the things I like about the line is that you aren't forced to buy a bunch of capabilities that you don't need as a 2 channel audiophile - which you do with the ULN-8/Model 4 and Orpheus for example. Also, I like that they build in a Trinity class clock. Anyway, I'll stay tuned.

 

Best,

David

 

[ted_b]

How the heck could anyone have heard how it sounds??

 

[silverlight]

From what I understand it's been making the trade show rounds for the past 6 months or so. A couple of appearances in European shows and a couple in the U.S. Vincent at VRS did an evaluation last fall in his setup next to the Model 4. His comments to me were that it was very good, and insanely good for the price. In relative terms he felt the Model 4 was better although not a large margin, and this was against the prototype of the basic model (which at the time had pricing expectations sub $1k by a margin).

 

Having the trinity clock in it at it's price range is amazing. Having just added the Trinity this week, it really opened up another layer of transparency.

 

[earflappin]

Geoff, thanks for the further comments. Ted_b, normally audio companies will circulate review samples of equipment before they commence volume shipments. This way they can get some positive buzz out there and have reviewers ready to publish reviews just as they are ready to ship product. It sounds Vincent had a chance to hear such a unit.

 

Geoff, I agree that having the Trinity clock inside is very nice. I plan on immediately getting the Plus model so I can evaluate its DAC and use it to dejitter my Lynx AES/EBU output. It will be interesting to see how the final unit(s) stack up to the various competitors.

 

 

 

[ted_b]

had some documented feedback from Vincent. He told me about it months ago (at the time i posted it could be $600), but thought it was purely due to hearsay.

 

[Bob Stern]

From Antelope's website, it appears the differences among the 3 models relate to functionality, not sound quality. No differences are mentioned regarding digital clock, analog stage, etc.

 

The Gold has a stepped attenuator rather than the mystery attenuator in the Basic and Plus. The Gold also has an "optional" linear power supply.

 

Of course, if you use USB rather than S/PDIF, the Basic has a maximum 92 KHz sample rate.

 

Does anyone have further information on features intended to improve the sound quality as you move up from Basic to Plus to Gold?

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Does anyone have further information on features intended to improve the sound quality as you move up from Basic to Plus to Gold?"

 

Bob, as I understand it, only the two premium models have clock input, in the event one wants to add-on the 10M rubidium atomic clock, which provide improvements in sound quality when used in conjunction with the Isochrone models.

 

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/zodiac_rubicon.html

 

 

clay

 

[askat1988]

Where does it say it can be used with the 10M? I asked their rep (Marcel?) about 8 months ago and he said the 10M could not be used with these new DACs. I was a bit shocked. Maybe something changed. I recently sold my OCX and 10M partly due to this.

 

[silverlight]

Looking just at the spec's, doesn't look like they support a direct 10M / atomic input, just a word clock input. so, you'd have to add an OCX/Trinity and the 10M just to get the atomic clock feature. Maybe they've added the atomic input. Would be pretty cool feature...

 

[cfmsp]

"Where does it say it can be used with the 10M?"

 

The two premium models each have a word clock input. I thought this was all that was required - apparently I was incorrect, per Silverlight's comments.

 

bummer,

 

clay

 

 

 

[askat1988]

Seems strange to me but no direct 10M and I am pretty sure he said no OCX, only Trinity?

 

[cfmsp]

 

After Geoff reminded me about the atomic input, I remembered that I'd read somewhere that atomic inputs would be available on some Zodiac models.

 

a quick Google, and voila...

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=11429

 

clay

 

 

 

[silverlight]

That's great news if the implement it (presumably it's a marketing and not technical issue). The 10M addition is really big. Just took the advice above and have some better quality BNC cables coming (a pair of Oyaide and Silver Shadow, short lengths as I can get away with), so will post on results (these and the Apogee cables).