Vibration Air & Roller Bearings - Thanks to Barry & Warren

[Solstice380]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

hmmm... it sounds like a graduate student could McGiver something up for cheap that would replicate the above...

 

Go for it!  Remember the old saying;  time, performance and money... pick 2. 

[Ralf11]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Go for it!  Remember the old saying;  time, performance and money... pick 2. 

 

I don't have any anymore.

 

but... other people's time

and for money substitute beer & pizza

 

 

[Solstice380]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

this looks like fun:

 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.04543.pdf

 

 

Yeah, that stuff is huuuuuuge in automotive right now 

[Solstice380]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

and for money substitute beer & pizza

 

Grad student pay, grad student result.  Sometimes not worth the price!

[brucew]

11 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

What size are your balls?  Hahaha, the isolator ones.  And where did you source them?

I use 10mm (3/8"). Check out grade 100 or grade 10 hardened. Cheap as chips and really show off what roller bearings can do. Then you can later tweak with exotic bearings if you like what you hear and want just slightly more of it.

4 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

I like that idea.  If you use a cup on top and bottom they are a pain to align, also. 

I don't much see the sense in an upper cup. The bottom of most components work just fine, and don;t have alignment problems. If the bottom is too soft or too rough, I just glue a metal knockout disc (from an electrical junction box) at the alignment points on the bottom of the component. Works fine and cheaper than chips.

4 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

To me, this is the key - vertical direction.... I use the Herbie’s to address the vertical.... We’ll keep working through this because I’m not up for, and don’t have space for, inner tubes under everything!

I've been considering Herbie's Fat Dots under the cups, but they are dampening devices as much or more than isolating devices -- wondering how effective between speakers and sprung wooden floor. I've been looking at Isoacoustics Iso-Pucks or Oreas. They get great reviews and aren't as fiddly as inner tubes, though they are 1.25" high.

[Solstice380]

56 minutes ago, brucew said:

I don't much see the sense in an upper cup

 

The only bennie that I can think of is that hopefully the mfr. put them in sturdy locations. Unless you tear your components apart to look you won’t know if/how you are stressing the bottom of the chassis.  

 

Dont get confused about isolating and dampening.  You’d be surprised at how stiff Herbie’s dBNeutralizer material actually is.  If you want to dampen something weigh it down or wrap it in something - constrain it.  I use a weight on top of the CD transport to dampen it.  

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

The dots sure won’t take up huge amplitude shocks or vibrations like a tube.  But if you don’t have room in a rack...

 

The big fat dots are a little over 1" right?  That would make it a little precarious with a 3" aluminum cup sitting on top of it.  As much as I want to try these, big and fat are not an accurate description.

[Solstice380]

 

13 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

The big fat dots are a little over 1" right?  That would make it a little precarious with a 3" aluminum cup sitting on top of it.  As much as I want to try these, big and fat are not an accurate description.

 

Yeah that doesn’t work well.  Give Steve an email and tell him what you need.  Good guy.  Maybe he can accommodate your need.  

[GUTB]

I went looking for lab / industrial vibration controls....found a lot of very competitively priced 200-300 lbs stone benches....

[Ralf11]

is it time to talk about the Shore A scale yet?

[brucew]

15 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

Dont get confused about isolating and dampening.  You’d be surprised at how stiff Herbie’s dBNeutralizer material actually is. 

Yes, I get the difference and have heard about the stiffness of the dBNeutralizer. Since the Herbie's website specifically recommend to put the Big Fat Dots right up against the component case as more effective than having anything else in between,  I asked Steve if that implied that it has an important dampening effect as well... to which he agreed.

[brucew]

I do find it hard to get my head around he idea that a 'stiff' material can actually isolate throughout the musical frequency spectrum down to well below 20Hz. Whether Herbie's products do or not, they do seem to be rated as more frequency-neutral than much that is out there.

[Ralf11]

[brucew]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

This is a diagram of what product, what are the dimensions, and is the bladder pressure adjustable?

[Solstice380]

7 hours ago, brucew said:

I do find it hard to get my head around he idea that a 'stiff' material can actually isolate throughout the musical frequency spectrum down to well below 20Hz. Whether Herbie's products do or not, they do seem to be rated as more frequency-neutral than much that is out there.

 

I don’t think a monolithic material of any kind will work that low, unless you have a looooooootttttt of room!  Air or springs.

[look&listen]

New thing to talk about - Pneupod

[Solstice380]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Those are the type I referred to in the Barry D. thread.  Inflation adjustable.  Just make sure you get the valve stems and stuff you need.  

[Solstice380]

2 minutes ago, look&listen said:

New thing to talk about - Pneupod

 

Right concept, wrong price!  ? 

[Johnseye]

3 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Those are the type I referred to in the Barry D. thread.  Inflation adjustable.  Just make sure you get the valve stems and stuff you need.  

 

What's the diameter?  I'm also wondering if I put an aluminum Roller Block on top whether I get vibrations between the metals.  I'm guessing so and that it wouldn't be a good idea.

[Solstice380]

2 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

What's the diameter?  I'm also wondering if I put an aluminum Roller Block on top whether I get vibrations between the metals.  I'm guessing so and that it wouldn't be a good idea.

 

I don’ Remember exactly.  Check for the, at McMaster Carr.  I would use e of these under a bamboo or maple board.

 

The air bladder actually gives you isolation in the 3 dimensions so may not need rollerblocks on top.   Maybe a little stiffer in X and Y than Z.  

[Ralf11]

12 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Right concept, wrong price!  ? 

 

Right concept, Audiophile price!

 

 

- lots of things are just shined up and the price multiplied by 10x for audiophiles 

[look&listen]

40 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Right concept, wrong price!  ? 

Maybe for GUTB ?

[brucew]

15 hours ago, look&listen said:

New thing to talk about - Pneupod

Aside from the crazy pricing, I see that the quasi-technical bit shows scopes of vibration reduction but doesn't bother to say what frequencies. So it tells us very little. Air bladders have to be at VERY low inflation pressure in order to isolate down to below 20Hz, and low volume air bladders will make that more difficult. So... one wonders.

[brucew]

15 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Those are the type I referred to in the Barry D. thread.  Inflation adjustable.  Just make sure you get the valve stems and stuff you need.  

Have you tried these McMaster's? They look like they could work, are large enough they'd need to be used on a full sized shelf, kept at pretty low PSI... yet a set of 3-4 are nearly as expensive as a lot of commercial anti-vibration shelves. Do they work well in home audio applications? And do they tend to lose air over a week's time like a lot of air bladders do?

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, brucew said:

Have you tried these McMaster's? They look like they could work, are large enough they'd need to be used on a full sized shelf, kept at pretty low PSI... yet a set of 3-4 are nearly as expensive as a lot of commercial anti-vibration shelves. Do they work well in home audio applications? And do they tend to lose air over a week's time like a lot of air bladders do?

 

We use those on the industrial systems.  Like I said, I would put some type of board on top.  We spin the tire "no flats" goo inside them to stop leaks, cuz otherwise they do lose pressure.  I haven't looked at the pricing in a long time.  Can't add up to $1K though!

 

Here is a cheap hack that does well industrially.  Racquetball on a PVC pipe fitting.  Doesn't get much cheaper.