Metrum Onyx/Jade

[1markr]

17 hours ago, 1markr said:

 

Sure... first off, both DACs are very musical and worthy of an audition in your system; there isn’t a right or a wrong here, just one that feels and sounds “better” in your system with your supporting gear; your ears will determine which is best for you! That said, I can live with either DAC very happily.

 

Both are really good DACs...truly!

 

One more point to add.... if I was locked in to ONLY use the USB input of either DAC, I would choose the E32. The USB implementation of the E32 is much better then the Onyx. I tried many of the de-crapifiers on the E32, and really none of them made a whole lot of difference to the sound.  The E32”s input is galvanically isolated, but I don’t believe the Onyx is.

[buonassi]

On 5/26/2018 at 5:56 PM, 1markr said:

My personal experience with the Onyx, which I am running now very happily.... I agree with the SBAF reviewer. 

 

And you are correct sir.  I just received the Schiit Eitr today, hasn't even settled (burned in, whatever).  Using a high quality 1.5m Blue Jeans spdif 75ohm cable.

 

I can go into detail if you like, but it clearly outperforms USB on my Amethyst even with the USB cleaner I have - ifi iUSB3.0 nano.  So I imagine it would wipe the floor with straight USB.  

 

I couldn't help but marvel over the improvement the iUSB brought to my setup a few months back.  There is a commensurate jump in SQ using the USB>SPDIF converter they call the Schiit Eitr OVER the iUSB solution.  

 

Really just bought it on a whim expecting same or similar results that I already have.  Would then return it for 5% restock fee, no biggie.  Really didn't expect this gain especially after observing all the measurements that are out there on jitter and noise in general (j test etc).  According to them, we should hear no difference with coax and USB.  Yet....there is.  

[mrvco]

For those of you in the US, have you bought directly from Metrum's US store?  I see that they have a 30-day in-home trial period.  I'm very interested in the Onyx, but the only stocking dealer in the US is Hifi Heaven and while I travel quite a bit for work, I typically don't find myself anywhere near Green Bay.

[Spinning]

Why not order straight from Metrum then? No restocking fees, and as you say a 30 day trial period? Many have done this, and it works like a charm

[mrvco]

21 hours ago, Spinning said:

Why not order straight from Metrum then? No restocking fees, and as you say a 30 day trial period? Many have done this, and it works like a charm

 

That's why I asked, was curious for feedback on any experiences buying directly from Metrum USA.

[Spinning]

3 hours ago, mrvco said:

 

That's why I asked, was curious for feedback on any experiences buying directly from Metrum USA.

IMO it is always better to buy directly from the manufacturer, no restocking, trial period. I saw they just registered the INC, so its all legit.

[buonassi]

I would have no hesitations.  It's not like they're an obscure manufacturer.  Probably as close to zero risk as you can get.  I bought my Metrum used, and the person I bought it from has dealt with their customer service department for things like MQA upgrades, and has nothing but accolades for Metrum.  

[OldBigEars]

On 6/7/2018 at 11:41 PM, buonassi said:

 

And you are correct sir.  I just received the Schiit Eitr today, hasn't even settled (burned in, whatever).  Using a high quality 1.5m Blue Jeans spdif 75ohm cable.

 

I can go into detail if you like, but it clearly outperforms USB on my Amethyst even with the USB cleaner I have - ifi iUSB3.0 nano.  So I imagine it would wipe the floor with straight USB.  

 

I couldn't help but marvel over the improvement the iUSB brought to my setup a few months back.  There is a commensurate jump in SQ using the USB>SPDIF converter they call the Schiit Eitr OVER the iUSB solution.  

 

Really just bought it on a whim expecting same or similar results that I already have.  Would then return it for 5% restock fee, no biggie.  Really didn't expect this gain especially after observing all the measurements that are out there on jitter and noise in general (j test etc).  According to them, we should hear no difference with coax and USB.  Yet....there is.  

 

My experience exactly, when I switched from USB to the Schiit (using the same BJ 1.5m coax you are using.)  Then one day I substituted an AQ Carbon, just for giggles. Didn't expect to hear any difference.  But I was wrong - bought an AQ coax the same day and never looked back.  The BJ was fine, until I heard better.  

[buonassi]

Yeah, I'm thinking of upgrading my coax cable as well.  Is the AQ carbon you got 1.5m also @OldBigEars? I hooked up a cheap (but short @ 2 ft) digital coax.  I'm not sure yet, but I think I like the sound better - just a tad more focused and pristine .  

 

Wonder if the perceived increase in SQ is due to the shorter length?  It can't be a better conductor than the bjc!   

 

I've always read that 1.5m was the safe bet due to reflections caused by differing rise times of transmitter and receiver.  Yet here I am with a cheap 2 foot cable and kinda liking it.  

[OldBigEars]

14 hours ago, buonassi said:

Yeah, I'm thinking of upgrading my coax cable as well.  Is the AQ carbon you got 1.5m also @OldBigEars? I hooked up a cheap (but short @ 2 ft) digital coax.  I'm not sure yet, but I think I like the sound better - just a tad more focused and pristine .  

 

Wonder if the perceived increase in SQ is due to the shorter length?  It can't be a better conductor than the bjc!   

 

I've always read that 1.5m was the safe bet due to reflections caused by differing rise times of transmitter and receiver.  Yet here I am with a cheap 2 foot cable and kinda liking it.  

 

No I did switch to a 1 meter.  I should mention that I also owned a BJ 1 meter for a few weeks before trading it for a 1.5 meter.  Pure audio neurosis - I was curious about the question your raise, but to my ears in my system there was no difference. So when I bought an AQ I simply went for 1 meter.  The Carbon was super sweet, but I had an opportunity to get the AQ Coffee for a steal, so I took it.  Honestly I'm not sure the Coffee is any better than the Carbon - which may well be the sweet spot.

[Vhond]

Somebody who has exchanged the DAC2 for DAC3 modules for the Onyx?

[Qstik]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:31 AM, Vhond said:

Somebody who has exchanged the DAC2 for DAC3 modules for the Onyx?

Yes, I upgraded to DAC3 modules in my Onyx last summer.  Keep in mind that it has been a while now, but after a month of letting the new modules burn in, my impressions were that they were more detailed without being grainy.  They are also refined/smooth and linear/neutral.  They did not have the DAC2 module mid-to-upper bass emphasis which favors female voices to some listeners.  As I have continued to refine my system since then, I have come to appreciate my DAC3 modules even more.  At this point, I am convinced that the Onyx/DAC3 combination is seriously under-appreciated due to poor marketing and lack of exposure.  Of course, your mileage may vary.  See a detailed description of my system and listening environment in my profile.

[Vhond]

17 hours ago, Qstik said:

Yes, I upgraded to DAC3 modules in my Onyx last summer.  Keep in mind that it has been a while now, but after a month of letting the new modules burn in, my impressions were that they were more detailed without being grainy.  They are also refined/smooth and linear/neutral.  They did not have the DAC2 module mid-to-upper bass emphasis which favors female voices to some listeners.  As I have continued to refine my system since then, I have come to appreciate my DAC3 modules even more.  At this point, I am convinced that the Onyx/DAC3 combination is seriously under-appreciated due to poor marketing and lack of exposure.  Of course, your mileage may vary.  See a detailed description of my system and listening environment in my profile.

Alright, thx for answering. 2 questions left for me:

- did you return your DAC 2 modules (in change for substitution of money when buying the version 3)?

- how big is the difference when comparing to the DAC 2 modules (it's a 'tricky'/difficult question but maybe you can express in percentage)?

[Qstik]

7 hours ago, Vhond said:

Alright, thx for answering. 2 questions left for me:

- did you return your DAC 2 modules (in change for substitution of money when buying the version 3)?

- how big is the difference when comparing to the DAC 2 modules (it's a 'tricky'/difficult question but maybe you can express in percentage)?

Yes, I did return the DAC2 modules to Metrum for their rebate, which was refunded promptly.  I had a big delay getting the DAC3 modules through US Customs, but eventually patience paid off.

 

If I had to quantify it, the degree of overall improvement on a 1 to 10 scale is about 1.0 to 1.5 steps on my highly-resolving system.  I assume it's about the same subjective difference in going from a Metrum Onyx to a Metrum Pavane.  Attributes which I value greatly are width and depth of sound staging, separation and air around musical instruments and voices, micro-detail, realistic dynamic range, proper harmonic/timbre decay, and in general a sense of musical realism (the degree to which you can imagine performers are right in front of you). 

[Vhond]

15 hours ago, Qstik said:

Yes, I did return the DAC2 modules to Metrum for their rebate, which was refunded promptly.  I had a big delay getting the DAC3 modules through US Customs, but eventually patience paid off.

 

If I had to quantify it, the degree of overall improvement on a 1 to 10 scale is about 1.0 to 1.5 steps on my highly-resolving system.  I assume it's about the same subjective difference in going from a Metrum Onyx to a Metrum Pavane.  Attributes which I value greatly are width and depth of sound staging, separation and air around musical instruments and voices, micro-detail, realistic dynamic range, proper harmonic/timbre decay, and in general a sense of musical realism (the degree to which you can imagine performers are right in front of you). 

So it's 'only' 5 percent better than the DAC2? I know it's hard to describe progress, especially when you're going up the ladder in HiFi. I never heard the Pavane and Onyx side by side, but it would be interesting to hear from somebody who did (the Onyx with DAC3 modules will be better to compare 😀)

[Qstik]

5 hours ago, Vhond said:

So it's 'only' 5 percent better than the DAC2?

No, sorry if my scale isn't clear.  In percentage points it would be 10 to 15 percent better - it's a range of improvement because it's hard to pick a single number and may also be dependent on musical content.  I listen mostly to acoustic music (non-electronic).  I don't like offering a generalization for a subjective scale which has many complicated psychoacoustical aspects; but you asked and I have answered as best I can.

[Vhond]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:45 PM, Qstik said:

No, sorry if my scale isn't clear.  In percentage points it would be 10 to 15 percent better - it's a range of improvement because it's hard to pick a single number and may also be dependent on musical content.  I listen mostly to acoustic music (non-electronic).  I don't like offering a generalization for a subjective scale which has many complicated psychoacoustical aspects; but you asked and I have answered as best I can.

Thx for your additional explanation: 10 to 15 percent is more realistic I guess. Waiting for somebody who has auditioned both Pavane and DAC3 Onyx 😉

[Wilderness]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:26 AM, Qstik said:

Yes, I upgraded to DAC3 modules in my Onyx last summer.  Keep in mind that it has been a while now, but after a month of letting the new modules burn in, my impressions were that they were more detailed without being grainy.  They are also refined/smooth and linear/neutral.  They did not have the DAC2 module mid-to-upper bass emphasis which favors female voices to some listeners.  As I have continued to refine my system since then, I have come to appreciate my DAC3 modules even more.  At this point, I am convinced that the Onyx/DAC3 combination is seriously under-appreciated due to poor marketing and lack of exposure.  Of course, your mileage may vary.  See a detailed description of my system and listening environment in my profile.

I have the Metrum Onyx DAC and I am extremely pleased with it.  I sent an email to Metrum a few days ago to tell them how pleased I am with the DAC.

 

I agree that this DAC is underappreciated.  If people knew how good it is, it would get the kind of buzz that a few other DACs are getting.  Metrum needs to send the DAC out to a few more reviewers and then look at what other companies do to market.

 

I told Metrum that I instantly fall in love with the female vocalists that I hear when I listen through this DAC.  All of the genres of music I listen to are freaking mindblowing with it: mostly jazz, blues, singer/songwriter, classic rock, alt rock, classical and ambient.  I have around 9,700 songs, and all of them sound great with this DAC.  I prize tone over everything, and the Onyx excels at that.  Also, I want a DAC that handles sibilance well so that it is reproduced naturally and does not sound not excessive or rough.  Check.

 

I am listening to the Lounge 2 album right now by After in Paris.  Bells, piano,  vocals, brass, guitars, drums, etc. are exquisite.  There is plenty of reverb and decay when it is in the recording.  I hear deep into the recording without it sounding clinical at all.  It is smooth without being soft.  The album is vastly superior sounding through this DAC compared to what I heard through my old Teac NT503.  So natural, full, and beautiful.  It is late, but I want to keep listening.  I can't imagine that another DAC could sound better.  It has transformed my system to the point that I am finished with equipment purchases.

 

This DAC is a steal at $2,500.  

 

I don't have the upgraded DAC3 modules installed.  There is a YouTube video so that you can listen to and compare the standard DAC2 and upgrade DAC3 modules.  I noticed in the video that the bass seems more prominent with the DAC3 modules.  I don't need more bass, as I have speakers with built in powered subs and I have two external subs, and so I will stick with the standard DAC2 modules that came preinstalled in the DAC.

 

I am using the digital coax input.  I have a Black Dragon digital coax cable from Moon.  My other cables are Cardas Clear and Moon's Black Dragon speaker cables.  I have six of Audience's Forte 3 power cords.

 

I bought the DAC from the U.S. distributor, HiFi Heaven.  No problems with the order or the DAC.

 

New purchasers should be aware that the DAC really does need about 300 hours to break in and sound its best. Then it will sound so good that it will bring out all of the beauty in music.

[Vhond]

9 minutes ago, Wilderness said:

I don't have the upgraded DAC3 modules installed.  There is a YouTube video so that you can listen to and compare the standard DAC2 and upgrade DAC3 modules.  I noticed in the video that the bass seems more prominent with the DAC3 modules.  I don't need more bass, as I have speakers with built in powered subs and I have two external subs, and so I will stick with the standard DAC2 modules that came preinstalled in the DAC.

Nice to hear you really enjoy your Onyx. About the 'bass extension', what speakers do you have and what other gear: source, and (pre-)amplifier?

[Wilderness]

One other note about this DAC.  I have heard a few reviewers make the disturbing claim that they know they have a great audio product when it sounds awful with poor or flawed recordings.  Their thinking is that great recordings can only sound great on a system that exposes bad recordings. I understand their argument, but I don't agree with it.  By that I mean that it is possible to get great sound from all recordings with the right gear.

 

The Metrum Onyx DAC, in my system, sounds great with every song I have played through it for the past several months.  Great recordings sound fully formed to their potential, and recordings that have flaws such as rough sibilance or harshness are smoothed and cleaned up in a natural way so that they, too, sound great. 

[Vhond]

@Wilderness: About the 'bass extension', what speakers do you have and what other gear: source, and (pre-)amplifier?

[Wilderness]

8 minutes ago, Vhond said:

Nice to hear you really enjoy your Onyx. About the 'bass extension', what speakers do you have and what other gear: source, and (pre-)amplifier?

My system is in my profile.  Here it is:

JRiver

iMac

Cardas Clear USB

Wyred 4 Sound DDC

Moon Black Dragon digital coax

Metrum Onyx DAC

Cardas Clear XLR

McIntosh MA252 with Mullard NOS tubes

Moon Black Dragon speaker cables

GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers

REL T9x subwoofer

SVS SB2000 subwoofer

Audience Forte 3 power cords

Room treatment from Vicoustic and Auralex

 

I am not using power conditioners.  The amp, DAC, speakers, and sub are all plugged straight into the wall.   Also, no aftermarket footers or anything else.

[Qstik]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:31 AM, Vhond said:

Somebody who has exchanged the DAC2 for DAC3 modules for the Onyx?

Not in an Onyx but a Pavane, there are downloadable flac samples of DAC2 vs. DAC3 modules at the end of this review:  https://alpha-audio.net/review/review-metrum-acoustics-dac3-upgrade/

[Vhond]

Yeah I knew these YouTube samples.