Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[input username here]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

My conclusion is that I'm not holding my breath for one anytime soon. When a working prototype shows up somewhere, I'll start to consider it as a real possibility. We actually knew the BXT was in development for a long time before it was available, but this thing is still Vaporware.  

 

Unfortunately, that's my conclusion as well... though, as I said, I'd hoped to be proved wrong at Munich. 

[input username here]

PLEASE HELP ME RE: REW and Kii EQ

 

So, I decided to try and use the new Kii firmware to do additional EQ.  As suggested by many here, I bought a miniDSP umik-1 mic., a good mic. stand and downloaded REW.  Since then, the process has been equal parts terrible and frustrating.  I know that I probably ought to be hitting the REW forums but 1. these forums are huge with no easy indication of where to go or where to begin, 2. they often try and be very exhaustive, which is admirable generally, but not when I just want to do very simple things--like get my mic set up and take a few measurements, and 3. are often very specific to use cases that are of absolutely no interest to me (e.g. using REW as a convolution engine for loading setting sinto Roon, or whatever).  Further, given that some people on this form have used the exact same equipment I have to achieve the exact same results I'm seeking, I thought I might try here first, if anyone would be willing to help. 

 

To begin with, I have downloaded the the correct umik-1 mic cal. file from miniDSP and successfully read it into the Calibration file in Preferences.  As suggested by REW, I selected the ASIO driver for my YellowTech PUC-2 USB-AES D-to-D converter (which goes AES into the speakers) and have left the Sampling Rate at the default 48kHz.  I have set levels to "Use main speaker test signal to check/set levels."  All also in Preferences.  So far, so good, I think.

 

From there my problems include:

 

1. The GUI on both the REW and the umik-1 pages do not match my GUI.  I suspect I have a newer rev. (I have REW V5.19) and, also, I am using WIndows 10 and they seem to be screenshotting Apple OS.  Anyway, with the images completely off, I cannot seem to find simple answers to things like, in Preferences, what does the Input/Output/Timing Reference Output/Loopback Input mean--what is 2: in 2 or 1: Out 1 mean and should I care?

 

2. I play pink noise from the Generator and only get signal out of the right channel.  This doesn't seem correct to me... but I cannot figure out if maybe I am supposed to do one and then the other?  Or, if not, how to even begin to get sound out of both channels.

 

3. When I play pink noise and check it against the levels (following the instructions--as best I can--from the umik-1 page) the sound-meter does move a bit, but although I am supposed to push the sound to about 75dB, mine always sticks around 30.0 - 30.5 dB(z) F/-102 dBFS, no matter how loud (or soft) I turn up my speakers (--or "speaker" since, as I said, sound only comes out of the right channel).  Like I said, it does bounce around a bit, so it appears to be reading something but, whatever that is, it's nothing to do with the sound coming out of my system.

 

This should be so simple but, basically, nothing looks or works as it should.  So I haven't even begun to try and tackle  doing an actual measurement.  I cannot begin to say how much I hate this process.  All I want to do is find the freq., Q and magnitude of any room nodes/peaks and program their inverse into the Kii CONTROL's EQ--simple, no?

 

Currently, I am at 100% failure, maybe it's just me.  Can anyone who has used [1. the Kii CONTROL, 2. the Kii THREEs, 3. a miniDSP umik-1 USB mic, 4. REW and 5. Windows 10] tell me how they got measurements so that they could enter them into the CONTROL?  If so, i'd be eternally grateful.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[input username here]

3 hours ago, Rubysea said:

Hi input username here.
It's a bit difficult to diagnose remotely, but I guess you have read the REW manual regarding set-up (although the screenshots may differ) and your REW preferences are set showing the following setings:
Output Device: Kii Control, Output: SPEAKER and Input Device: Umik-1 Gain: 18db, Input: MICROPHONE (see example screenshot taken from one of my measurements).
At least that were my preferences settings when I did my set-up and measurements. So I guess it should look similar for you.
I started exactly the same way as you from scratch with a  Umik-1 and REW but everything worked out just fine. I was running it on a MAC though.
Regarding sound only coming from one speaker: did you verify the settings for the measurements: in REW you can make choices for L, R, L+R at several locations. So maybe one setting is not set to L+R somewhere.

I don't have access to the Kiis and the Umik at the moment, otherwise I could try to be a bit more specific...

 

Thank you, @Rubysea, and @firedog for your advice.  I'll try and give it a shot one more time this week... if it doesn't work, I guess it's on to Audiolense.  Thanks again!

[input username here]

7 hours ago, ragwo said:

@input username here

How did it work out? Did you manage without Audiolense? 

Hi @ragwo, unfortunately, I was unable to make REW work.  Given that so many others have, I think that the problem must be with me--not with REW.  I broke down and bought Audiolense a few days ago; I haven't set it up yet.  Maybe this weekend.  Hopefully, I'll have better success than with REW!

[input username here]

6 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5cbe41e4fb22a50b24b34ed3/t/5e1a536233f1ef3a52d0481d/1578783595599/fidelitykiithreebarf47en.pdf

 

Not sure if this review has been posted before.    Something to read in Iso.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Thanks @Cazzesman.  There's not much out on the BXT (... maybe because of it's price relative to the THREE?).  Anyway, looking forward to reading.

[input username here]

9 hours ago, Rubysea said:

It's been some time now, but a new firmware update for the Kii Control I suppose should become available soon in the official firmware update section. It only seems to update Kii Control from v2.4 to v2.5 (for BXT I can't say as I don't own it)

The changes will include:

- Fixed bug in standby sleep/wake-up behaviour
- Fixed bug in multi filter setup
- Added filter bypass option for easy A/B comparison, including a preset option

So stay tuned...

 

Thanks for the update @Rubysea.  I haven't run into any of the problems that this update seems intended to address--perhaps because I don't use any of the Kii filters b/c I am EQing with Audiolense (the difference isn't huge but I think it's worthwhile). 

 

What I am waiting on is more news about their "big" preamp/streamer, is this thing ever going to drop!?!  Does anyone have any new info?  I was planning on asking Kii about this at HiFI Munich a few months ago but, with no audio shows this year, the opportunities to get answers to such questions are pretty limited.  Still, if anyone has any info, I'd appreciate a heads up.

 

 

[input username here]

15 hours ago, Brucemck2 said:

Any recommendations for power cords and power treatment for the Kii3’s?

 

The Kii dealer from whom I bought my THREEs is a Kubala Sosna (KS) dealer. He suggested KS and I got a pair of Fascination PCs. My experience was different from @fpalm69: I did perceive a clear improvement vs. the stock PCs. If I were to describe it, I'd say that the sound was more "relaxed," I just felt like the presentation was smoother and more coherent and I didn't have to work as hard to enjoy the speakers. That said, the differences were not night and day--they were subtle, but repeatable.

 

A much bigger improvement for me was to put the CONTROL on Black Ravioli footers/pads. It really made a big difference--bigger, I think, than the power cords for significantly less $$$. When I heard how significant an improvement (even modest) vibration reduction had on my system, it freaks me out when I see people putting their CONTROL on iPad stands and such.  BTW, way, way, way back on this thread, I reported the improvement of the Black Raviolis. Which I guess makes sense, since all of my sources are plugged into it. But someone replied (sorry, I don't recall who) and they said that they also heard a big improvement when they isolated their CONTROL even though they were only passing sources through the XLRs on the back of the speakers--the CONTROL was only being used for volume control and setup. I cannot confirm his (her?) experience, but that is at least one more person who found that isolating the CONTROL made a big improvement to SQ. 

 

I hope that helps. 

[input username here]

3 hours ago, Emlin said:

Could we please discuss this in private the next time that I'm in Narnia? Until then, adieu. 

 

Lol, I didn't mean to start a firestorm (... or a tempest in teapot!). 

1. In my experience, things that "shouldn't" make a difference in audio, often do... but also sometimes don't. (I remember back to the Julian Hirsch Stereo Review days when allegedly sensible people said all solid state amps with the same rated power absolutely had to sound precisely the same; they sounded an awful lot like @Emlin does now.)
2. I am not an engineer and do not claim to be able to explain why these things matter... I have some ideas, but they are probably wrong at best, and silly at worst. 
3. I like that Bruno Putzeys has said more than once that engineers really ought to listen to what audiophiles say they are hearing, because they are often right (often against all scientific sense of the day), but that they ought to and pay almost no attention to why they think they are hearing it, because they probably have no idea what they are talking about. I know about confirmation bias, but I chose to agree with Bruno. 
4. And I know that I trust my ears because, if I/we don't, why are we in this hobby at all? I'll leave the "why" to someone who actually knows what the hell they're talking about.

[input username here]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:58 AM, Beren said:

When you think about it, its quite easy to see that vibrations of any kind will cause problems. With the speakers obviously, since speakers moving back and forth will affect the timing of the sinus waves, while some floors might be affected by vibrations also. Not so obviously with digital sources, but the crystal clocks may be affected by vibrations also and cause problems in the time domain. I fully understand that some listeners do not hear that, but I will at least give it a try. Some brands like Stack Audio offer a full month for testing, so I am going to trust my ears.

 

Don't know if I'll be able to afford the BXTs... but I'm thinking about it. Does anyone have any experience with isolation/footers for the floor standers? I am using ISO Acoustics stands on my THREEs, so it seems like the Gaia's might be a good product to try. I was also thinking Stillpoints. But I am very curious about anyone's experience.  

[input username here]

16 hours ago, Beren said:

One day it will be the BXTs for me too. But until then there are a lot of little steps to improve the (amazing!) sound quality of the Threes. I chose the Stack Audio Auvas over the Iso Acoustics because of the way they work and I'm more than happy with them. Biiig improvement for a few hundred bucks.

 

I'm not surprised. I am a big believer in isolation--even on the CONTROL, so I'm certain that the effect would be even greater on a pair of speakers w/ all the electronics inside them. Mine are on a desk, in the (very) near field and I liked the way that the  ISOAcoustics ISO stands worked (and the price). So I got them but I can't say I A/B'ed against anything else. @Beren, it would not surprise me at all if there was more improvement to be had. 

 

... I used to use the Ardán Audio stands (those are in the picture for my bio), but they took up a lot of desk space and were fiddley. Like I said, I'm pleased with the ISO stands; I cannot say that I notice a significant change in audio quality one way or another since I switched.