Objective proof the UpTone Regen ISO can improve a DAC's output(*)

[Speed Racer]

On 8/2/2017 at 8:03 PM, esldude said:

Don't you find it interesting that a $79 ADC/DAC with microphone inputs to boot, does not have this problem connected via USB?  Maybe Schiit should buy one and open it up to see how they managed that.

 

I not going to blindly believe Amir's results. When someone else duplicates the results, I will start giving them some credence. 

[Speed Racer]

9 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

So does that mean that you don't believe that the Iso Regen cleans up the Schiit's measurement?

 

I am pretty sure my sentence is clear. 

[Speed Racer]

Amir's results could show the Modi was the quietist DAC under $100 and I wouldn't trust them....

[Speed Racer]

57 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Not to me.

 

 

I don't trust Amir's results regardless of how negative or favorable they are...regardless of the product tested. 

 

Is is that clear enough?

[Speed Racer]

19 minutes ago, esldude said:

He was a VP at MS when they acquired Pacific Microsonics.  At one time when JJ Johnston (if you know who he is) worked for Microsoft it was within the group Amir was VP over.

 

I worked at Apple for over 9 years. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the Engineering VPs and Senior Directors there that could not engineer their way out of a paper bag. So Amir being a VP of an Engineering group at MS means nothing to me in regards to him testing DACs and USB decrapifiers.

[Speed Racer]

Alex,

 

You really could help yourself out if you would take the time to do some real world testing and post the results on your website. Showing a nice looking USB eye pattern here doesn't really tell us anything about what is coming out the analog side of the DAC. 

[Speed Racer]

18 minutes ago, esldude said:

Well actually in the case of the iFi and the Behringer it does come free.  All the ISO switching supply issues vanished if you removed the ISO going to straight USB feed.  Sometimes simpler really is better.

 

...and here is the problem with just measuring. Sometimes what measures worse sounds better. Amir seems limited to just measuring which only part of the story. I would argue the least important part too. 

[Speed Racer]

19 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

And what's the most important part? Sighted, unreliable, impossible to duplicate subjective listening?

 

Well, for me, it's the sound I get out of my system. I have listened to plenty of great measuring audio gear that sounded completely boring and not at all engaging. Conversely, I have listened to great sounding gear that measured less well. Yeah, I look for gear that measures well. But, it's what it sounds like that matters in the end. Great specs don't really mean a whole lot ultimately. So, any test that focuses on specs or measurements without discussing sound is incomplete as far as I am concerned.

 

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Yep, always the answer is to fall back in the weakest, least reliable device to support the unsupportable, human perception.

Strictly thru strong suggestion a person can be made sure that he is hearing anything you may want them to hear.

Even when the measurements and common sense say otherwise.

A worthless product will become indispensable if you can convince people that is the reality.

The very definition of snake-oil marketing.

 

Objective data tells you nothing about how good or bad something sounds. An amp can measure great yet sound flat and boring. In the end measurements mean very little. It's what we hear that matters.

 

Now, as an Engineer, I tend toward objective data. But, I also know that data doesn't tell the whole story. You need both.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-690#post_12447731  

[Speed Racer]

57 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

"son, I don't care how many of your buddies told you putting premium fuel in your car will make it faster. I can show you the dyno runs to prove it won't make a bit of improvement. but if you chose to ignore even that, have at it."

 

Since when is anything in audio as clear cut as a dyno chart for a car? That case is clearly and completely objective. In audio, we have this thing called perception which is not the same for each person. What's worse, is that in audio, people sometimes hear what they expect to hear, want to hear, or need to hear.

[Speed Racer]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Ultimately the signal coming out of your DAC is Voltage. These are voltage driven devices. We know a lot about this. Including that we get to rely on physics (sorry you can't game that) were we run the signals 180 degree out of phase and what is left over is the difference. If we have 100% cancellation....

 

We can game physics because it is often misapplied or applied incompletely. And you still can't eliminate the fact that people often hear what they want to hear and that what one person hears another person may hear differently. All along factoring in that what sounds good to one person may not sound good to another.

 

So no, audio is not a objective as the dyno chart example.

[Speed Racer]

7 minutes ago, Siltech817 said:

Newbie question: who is Amir?

 

That all depends upon who you ask.....