ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Superdad]

55 minutes ago, Matias said:

Does anyone have experience with an ISO Regen after the opticalRendu? Does it further improve its performance?

 

Hi Matias:

The USB output stage of the opticalRendu is identical to that of the ultraRendu.  Since you already own and enjoy the ultraRendu>ISO REGEN combo, you already know exactly what you can expect from an opticalRendu>ISO REGEN pairing. 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, Chiler54 said:

7V on the LPS 1.2 is the best for the ISO?

Yes, that is correct. 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Chiler54 said:

5v does not work? I wanted to use a Y Cable with the LPS 1.2 and provide the ISO with the Qutest

 

You can do that. The ISO REGEN will run from 5V just fine. All of its LT3042 voltage regulators are set to 3.3V or less, so 5V is fine. But its 1A voltage regulator dedicated to producing clean 5VBUS output (for DACs whose USB input requires it) will not be able to regulate to 5V from just a 5V feed (there needs to be some drop to regulate). 

 

However, this does not matter if the DAC does not use any 5VBUS. I don't recall how much if any 5V the Qutest draws through its USB data port (note I am not referring to its 5V power port).

Also, since the power supply you propose is the ultra-low-noise UltraCap LPS-1.2, it does not much matter if the ISO REGEN passes through the LPS-1.2's very clean 5V without further regulating it.

I do believe we have some users using a single UltraCap LPS-1.2 to power both an ISO REGEN and Chord Qutest.  I know lots of people use an LPS-1.2 to power just the Qutest, but I can not recall the reports from those who have tried using it with a 'Y' cable for both devices.  There is of course no harm in trying it. The LPS-1.2's LED will tell you if the load is too much.

[Superdad]

7 minutes ago, Chiler54 said:

I am using the LPS 1.2 at the qutest and it is fantastic.

That's great. 

 

7 minutes ago, Chiler54 said:

When the electricity is enough for Qutest and ISO Regen, does a separate LPS 1.2 make a noticeable difference?

A separate supply prevents interactions, but I do not know personally know for your combination. Others might.

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

From TAS latest edition.

 

Wow, thanks for posting that link!

Mr. Olsher purchased an ISO REGEN (at full price) just over a year ago. Then in May we loaned him an UltraCap LPS-1.2 to pair with it. I had forgotten all about his plan to include us as part of his review, and he never sent me a copy of what he wrote. There is so much that I have no time to do these days--including reading audio magazines--so this is a pleasant surprise. 

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, kldb said:

Hello, my iso regen is used between the player and the DAC, but after using iso regen, my player frequently has inexplicable playback interruptions. What's the matter?  Please help to solve it!

 

Hello:

We would like to assist you but we need more information.

Please tell us:

a) What computer/streamer you are using as source to send data to ISO REGEN.

b) What DAC you are using.

c) What USB cable between source and ISO REGEN.

d) What USB cable between ISO REGEN and DAC.

e) What power supply and voltage are you using for ISO REGEN.

f) What music player software are you using.

g) When do the playback interruptions occur?

h) Have you tried putting the red switch of the ISO REGEN in the up ('ON') position?

 

You can answer here, or you can send us a message via the Contact Us page on our web site at https://uptoneaudio.com/pages/contact-us.

Please include answers to all the above--and also tell us from whom you purchased your ISO REGEN.

Thank you,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

23 minutes ago, kldb said:

C) Two customized usb data cables to connect source iso regen and DAC
 D) Use DIY self-made USB cable to connect Iso regen and DAC

We suspect these cables are the cause of your trouble.  The Silanna ICE08USB galvanic isolator chip at the input of the ISO REGEN is often not happy with custom "audiophile" USB cables--which are generally very far from USB 90-Ohm characteristic impedance specification. 

Please try some other USB cables--specifically ones that are USB2.0 certified.  With each ISO REGEN we include a 15cm USB2.0-certified cable. Please try that between your source and the input to the ISO REGEN. (ISO REGEN can drive most any cable on its output, so as long as there are no mechanical contact problems you can use any cable on output side to DAC.)

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, Mat said:

Can ISO regen benefit if i use between  Macbook pro to mscaler , as mscaler is already galvanized isolated?

 

Sure. (And there are Chord MScaler owners using an ISO REGEN.)

Aside from the fact that the signal integrity improvements of the ISO REGEN go beyond its galvanic isolation feature, there is something worth explaining:

 

As with virtually any DAC with digital "galvanic" isolators, those are always on the I2S lines--AFTER the USB input stage.  They do not isolate the USB input stage itself from what comes before.

 

Why is that? Because all digital isolator chips (regardless of their speed or technology--optical, capacitive, RF, magneto-resistive, etc.) are ONE-WAY devices for each bit (yes, they are often packaged with multiple bit-channels, but you choose which channels are going which way and that's set).

So the only way to put a USB signal across an isolator is to process it into a format where data going upstream is not on the same line as data going downstream.  The only integrated chip capable of doing this at USB2.0 high-speed is the Silanna ICE08USB--the part we use in the ISO REGEN.  Beyond that one can accomplish this with two FPGAs and a bunch of code (as done in the Intona-brand isolator box).  [There is another, much more elegant method than either of the above, but I'm not going to discuss it here.]

 

Hope that helps.

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, scan80269 said:

I'm extremely late to the EtherREGEN party, and have not posted here for a very long time.  Long story, but it had much to do with the loss of interest in audio after the passing of a dear colleague/mentor/friend and a family member in 2019.

Hi Sam:

Great to see you posting and listening more after so long. Condolences again with regards to your longtime friend Victor.

Sorry I’ve yet to reply to you early-March letter; will get there.

 

Thanks very much for your highly descriptive post about the good things you are hearing in your system—in part from inclusion of a good number of our components. 

We are making progress on other innovative new pieces and I look forward to being able to speak of them once we get a bit closer to beta test and production. So stay tuned...

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Just to confirm, does this also apply to ethernet, so as an example the ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat) is an example of how this chip can be used ? 

Not understanding your question. Are you referring to the (now-discontinued) Silanna USB isolator chip as used in the ISO REGEN?

If so, then no, that thing is USB-only and the methods we use in the EtherREGEN are more advanced. Remember, the issue for USB2.0 is that it is a bi-directional protocol over a signal pair of wires. USB3.0 and Ethernet are have separate TX and RX pairs.  

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, agladstone said:

So more can be done for isolation and reclocking if kept within USB 3.0 vs USB 2.0 ? 

It is just a bit easier. Still challenging to do correctly. Problem is, it is only USB 3.0/3.1 in SuperSpeed mode that uses two differential pairs. So even if you see a DAC with a big blue USB3.0 input jack, I doubt it is running at SuperSpeed (625MB/sec). So we are stuck with translating to USB2.0 for a while longer...

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Thank you John.

Nope, I'm Alex C./Superdad.  John is @JohnSwenson

 

Quote

Any foreseeable timelines? 

Yes, but foreseeable only to John and I at the moment. 

The development John has been doing (for many months now) requires us to hit a couple of proof-of-concept milestones before we will feel comfortable disclosing anything. Those milestones could be passed next week, next, month, or never. So not going to speculate just yet.  Sure hoping for them soon. Progression towards products should go smoothly after the big hurdles.

[Superdad]

30 minutes ago, Jud said:

Well then I hope we are discolored soon.  ;)

 

Not even the third oddest autocorrection of my day. (Autocorrection is also a word one must be careful with around an auto corrector! )

 

Nice to “see” you here Jud. Long time no speak. Do give me a ring some time to ketchup...

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, kldb said:

The surface temperature of the ISO regent that the seller replaced me reached 37 degrees when it worked. Is this normal?  Will it affect its normal operation and lifespan?

Case temperature of the ISO REGEN will depend upon 3 factors:

a) The ambient temperature of your room;

b) The amount of 5VBUS current drawn by whatever DAC you have attached to its output;

c) The voltage of the power supply used to power the ISO REGEN.

 

Based on what I can see from the circuit boards in your Moon DAC—and the temperature you are reporting when usng the stock 7.5V PS—am guessing that it might be drawing between 320~400mA of 5VBUS current from the ISO REGEN’s output.

Seems quite normal and longevity will not be affected.

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, Tobias said:

The Unison-equipped Yggy _connects_ OK to the USB source through the IsoREGEN. I say it doesn't work because there is absolutely nothing gained with the iSoREGEN in the line. The Yggy Unison sounds the same both with it and without it, or as near as makes no difference. To my ear.

That's fine. Tastes vary.

On the flip side, there are a number of Yggy owners who are very pleased with the benefits brought by an ISO REGEN. Basically, if you can hear a difference between USB cables with your DAC then you should hear a difference with the ISO REGEN (properly placed right at the input of the DAC). USB cables alter signal integrity (as seen on an eye-pattern); ISO REGEN greatly improves signal integrity, impedance match, clock-threshold-jitter-induced ground-plane noise, and 5VBUS quality.

 

15 hours ago, Tobias said:

The Audioquest Carbon, OTOH, just won't let a signal lock happen with the source, a 2012 Mac Mini. Superdad and JS have dealt with this kind of thing, and reasons for it, earlier in the thread.

Yep. Some of the Audioquest USB cables (and a small handful of other handmade boutique cables) are wildly out of 90-ohm spec and the Silanna galvanic isolator chip used at the input of the ISO REGEN does not take kindly to those.  That's only on the input side. An ISO REGEN will drive any USB cable on its output.

[Superdad]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:59 AM, Mops911 said:

I just setup my second system and it includes an ISORegen. In my first system the NAA never disconnects and stays in a connecting/disconnecting loop until I repower the ISOREgen, but here it does constantly (3-5 times a day)... OS is Server Core 2019 with AO. Any idea?

 

Hi:

Your report is a little confusing to me but we wish to assist. Can you please e-mail with all physical hardware/wiring details of the system in which you are having trouble with connection through ISO REGEN?

Thanks,

--Alex C.