ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, rogerdn said:

Alex or anyone who knows, sorry if I missed it, how close are we to being able to order the USPCB adapter ?

 

Hi Roger:

 

I am behind on a lot of things.  One of which is figuring out the worldwide postage costs to charge for people who want to order the USPCB A>B Adapter by itself (USA is easy, but international for small packets is a headache; nobody is going to want to pay Priority Mail Intl. Flat Rate of $34 postage for a $35 adapter).  That’s about the only reason why the AddToCart button is not yet on the page.

 

If you are in the USA and would like one, just shoot $38 ($35 + $3 postage) via PayPal to www.paypal.me/uptone

If you do so, please let me know (via our web site contact page) as the daily PayPal notices get filtered into an e-mail box that I do not regularly look at.

 

Also tell me which orientation of the USPCB Adapter you wish to receive.

 

Thanks,

ALEX

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, watercourse said:

Just ordered the ISO REGEN! 

 

Awesome, thanks!  And so now at last I know @watercourse's real name...

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, spacexpert said:

Sigh.  I wonder if a micro USPCB is on the cards?  Perhaps not enough demand?  I'd love to place my ISO REGEN closer to my Hugo2.

 

Aside from your own micro-desires (), do any of you have a sense of which of the alternate 'B' plug styles are dominant with DACs?  miniUSB or microUSB?  I thought I remember getting requests for miniUSB as well, but I can recall the DAC brands for those.  Of course I know that the Chord DACs with microUSB are popular.

Not promising anything here; just gathering the facts ma'am.   

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, Lionelh2 said:

I'm sure the IFI guys would like a female B connector. 

 

I think you mean female 'A'--for the iFi micro iDSD.  But that is just one DAC.  Not going there. 

Besides, I already checked the measurements, and the PCB-mount female 'A' jack height, plus the thickness of the USPCB's 4-layer board, would prevent fit into the opening of the iDSD.

I still can't remember why on earth they had to design that one DAC that way. 

[Superdad]

32 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

+1

Alex, Please correct me if I'm wrong But don't you own an IFI iDSD Micro yourself?

 

I do, among other DACs.  I'll measure again with calipers when I have time.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Last week I got my first hint as to the cause.  Upon leaving the bathroom adjacent to my listening room, I powered off the light and fan switches in that room.  Music immediately stopped playing and Roon could find no audio devices.  It happened again today.  I got the music started again and tried to reproduce the problem.  As I turned off the fan, music stopped playing again.  Odd.

 

This never occurred before adding the ISO REGEN, so I imagine the isolation it provides may make my configuration more sensitive to the energy emitted when turning off that fan.  It must be airborne as my system is on its own dedicated circuit.  The ISO REGEN is powered by an LPS-1 and the microRendu is powered off the JS-2.

 

No biggie as I use of that fan is optional.  I'm just reporting in case others encounter it.  

 

That will stop if you defeat the isolation with the red switch.  It is somehow related to system grounds, and the more "floated" your system is, the more likely you are to encounter this.  Some DACs are very sensitive at their USB inputs and will disconnect with the slightest disturbance.  I can make that happen to if I build up a good charge on my body (certain shoes on carpet) and then touch the ISO REGEN case while it playing.  

 

The output grounds of your JS-2 are "floated" (though of course the chassis and transformer are grounded to the AC mains for safety), so both the input side of your ISO REGEN (fed by the completely floated Ethernet microRendu powered by JS-2) and the output side of the ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) lack any system ground connection--other than whatever connection your DAC and beyond has.

 

One experiment you could try would be to ground one of the JS-2 outputs to its chassis.  You will notice that the machined DC jack openings of the JS-2 chassis are not anodized--and that the shell of the DC jacks don't actually touch the inside of the back panel.  You could, using clips or wires try to ground the DC output ground--either the outside of an attached barrel plug, or the shell of a JS-2 DC jack.--to any AC mains ground.  That can be the JS-2 chassis (it's cover screws go to non-anodized metal that is grounded) or just to a wall or power strip ground.

 

The above would give the microRendu a real ground that would be passed along--via the USB connection--to the upstream side of the ISO REGEN.  That will give any charges built up--on the upstream side of the isolator--a path to "drain" to.

 

Discovery of that issue--in my normally extremely floated system--is what lead to the inclusion of the red isolation defeat switch. 

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Alex - would you expect a degradation of sound quality from grounding as you suggest? 

 

It should not.

 

10 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

Sound quality did take a hit when I defeated isolation using the switch on my ISO REGEN.  I'm guessing as long as I don't defeat isolation, grounding the microRendu as you suggest won't impair sound quality, but just want to confirm.

 

That is correct.  As long as you are keeping the GI in place between the microRendu and your DAC with the ISO REGEN.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Alex and John, can you explain the difference between doing galvanic isolation in the ISO REGEN (using a Silanna chip and USB hub) vs the transformer coupling approach in the new Schitt Gen 5 USB?  

 

Transformers?  On high-speed USB?  DC does not pass through transformers so they must be doing something fancy to achieve that.  Will wait to see pics and explanations.

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, rickca said:

Here's a picture of the G5 board.  It may not be high enough resolution for you to see what on it.

http://schiit.com/products/gen-5-usb

 

Oh okay, pulse transformers driving transistor gates!  Clever. Simple and elegant.  Good for a DAC input (or an S/PDIF converter) as it feeds the protocol engine/processor directly.  Probably not workable for an external USB>USB device.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Alas, still no DSD solution (well that's not really surprising from Schiit). So where's the power for a USB device that would need 20-300mA draw like any DAC.

...

 

Not sure I follow that.  Theirs is a USB input board for their DACs (as well as a stand-alone version where they added an S/PDIF out to that USB>I2S design.  Assume they power it internally.

 

In any case gents, it is not appropriate for us to have this sort of discussion of other brands within the UpTone forum.  Decorum, respect, etc.--for both Schiit (whom I admire as a company) and UpTone.

 

Thanks!

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, octaviars said:

If you put the ISO REGEN directly behind the DAC with the USPCB how many millimeters will there be between the DAC case and the case of the ISO REGEN?

 

Exactly 45 mm.  

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, octaviars said:

The ISO REGEN is that also around 45mm long? 

 

46mm.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Just to confirm, is the CCHD-575 Crystek in the ISO Regen powered by 3.3V?

 

Yes.

All 4 of the 5(!) ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 200mA regulators in the ISO are set to 3.3V.  (One is set to 1.2V for half of the hub chip; and a sixth reg, a 1A TI TPS7A4700 serves up clean 5VBUS to DACs/DDCs that need it.  Plus there are carefully chosen PS bypass caps a couple millimeters away from almost every chip power pin.

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, Eaglesound said:

Hi!Do I understand that REGEN is ISO 5 pieces LT3042 200mA and 1 piece 1A TI TPS7A4700?

 

That is correct. 

[Superdad]

Hey everyone, check this out...

 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Quasar said:

A greeting for everyone from Spain in my first post in the forum.

Thanks for the warning Superdad. I've been waiting for a while for this and I've just placed the order. I have several USB connections that I do not need to extend them and I see it very suitable for it.

 

Thank you for the order.  And congratulations on your first post here at CA! On behalf of the whole community here, I'll say that we will watch for many more posts from @Quasar.

[Superdad]

On 8/1/2017 at 4:51 AM, Eaglesound said:

Please tell me.Available power supply on the TI TPS7A4700(1A ).Can I feed this power supply, ISO REGEN?

 

I'm sorry, I do not fully understand your question. 

Are you saying that you have a 1A power supply (based on the TI TPS regulator) and you want to know if that will be enough current to power the ISO REGEN?

if that is your question, then the answer is yes.  

Please set the voltage in the range of 5-8 volts (you can get away with 9V if your DAC does not draw much from the USB 5VBUS).

 

Part of why your question is confusing is because we happen to also use the TI TOS7A4700 in both the UltraCap LPS-1 and as the regulator for 5VBUS output in the ISO REGEN.  (The other 5 regulators in the ISO REGEN are the 200mA ultra-ultra-low-noise Linear Tech. LT3042--all set at 3.3V.)

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

 

Alex I hope you can advise me for what shall I do with my issue. 

 

Hi Sadek:

Have you tried putting the red switch in the up ('ON') position?  That is likely to take care of the problem and would point to other grounding issues in your system.

If that does not work, then please contact me directly and we can arrange for an exchange.

Thanks,

ALEX

 

[Superdad]

28 minutes ago, rickca said:

Alex, I'm wondering whether potential ISO REGEN GI issues are the same as Mike Moffat describes in the following post regarding the isolation implemented in the EITR.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34808-schiit-eitr/?do=findComment&comment=705898

 

 

Yup.  That's why we put a switch on the ISO REGEN.   But remember, the GI is only about 20% of the overall "goodness" of our device.  Anyone who has one can flip the switch (the up--ON--position defeats the isolation) and hear what is lost.  And then remove the unit entirely and what much more is lost.

[Superdad]

18 hours ago, tims said:

Until I get a better power supply I want to try supplying power (to the IR) using LiFePo4 batteries connected in series.  Assuming there is minimal current required to provide the handshake to my DAC, what would be the typical current drawn by the IR?

 

If not called upon to supply 5VBUS power to a DAC, the ISO REGEN itself draws 100mA (0.1A) from the external power supply for the downstream side.  

The ISO REGEN also draws 20mA from the computer USB cable--to indirectly power the upstream side of the Silanna isolator chip.

(I say indirectly because even on the "dirty" upstream side we us an ultra-low-noise LT3042 regulator to produce 3.3V for the upstream side, even though the isolator has available its own internal 3.3V reg--which we do not use.)

 

A typical DAC that just needs VBUS for handshake adds less than 10mA of draw.

 

Of course there are DACs that do draw a lot of VBUS current.  I use the iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp on my desk as a torture test since it will draw close to and above the USB 2.0 500mA max spec.  

But the ISO REGEN--with its 1 amp TI TPS7A4770 regulator dedicated to providing clean 5VBUS power--does not mind at all.

 

Hope that helps.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Hi Alex,

 

Thank you for your help, you are right i have grounding issue but i don't know if you have any advice on how to defeat this issue?

 

Basically you just need to make sure that some component(s) on the downstream side of the ISO REGEN are grounded to mains ground.  Typically your DAC.  

 

Beyond that we would need to know the full layout and connections of your system to give you further advice.

[Superdad]

42 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Alex, here's my layout (Laptop>USB Cable>IR+LPS-1>USPCB>DAC/AMP).

 

What DAC are you using?

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, sadekkhalifa said:

McIntosh MHA100

 

Also, doesn't matter the type of DAC?

 

Do you have a preamp attached to the McIntosh headphone amp, or do connections stop with it?  

I notice that the MHA100 has the double-square logo on the back, meaning that it is double-insulated.  That seems odd for a mains-attached component of that sort--since it has a 3-prong AC inlet.  But it could be that they "float" some portion of the unit--and that is just the sort of thing that can cause the problem you experience when the ISO REGEN has its galvanic isolation enabled (and which goes away when you defeat it).

 

Secondly, general reports on the web indicate that McIntosh has a very spotty record with the USB inputs of their DAC.  I personally have spoke to two people who had to send their units (not the MHA100) back to McIntosh for USB board replacement.  I am not saying that your MHA100 is faulty, but I would suggest that you experiment a bit and also try with another DAC.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

19 hours ago, Horace28 said:

Hello all,

I have a strange issue,

When I put the USPCB Adapter after the Iso Regen I get a sort of "pop" or "click" sound every minute or so. This sound doesn't happen when I move the adapter to before the ISO. But I know the manual says to have the adapter after the ISO so I would rather have it in its proper position.

 

This will sound odd, but I suspect the issue is not the USPCB Adapter being after the ISO REGEN, but rather is caused by the USB cable that you are using before the ISO REGEN in that set up.  So moving the USPCB to before is curing it not because of a fault with it after, but because you are removing a problematic cable from before it.  The ISO REGEN (actually the Silanna isolator chip) is more sensitive on the upstream side (no so much sonically but functionally) than on the downstream side.

 

So try putting the USPCB after the ISO REGEN but use a different cable between the computer and the DAC.

 

Let us know how that works out for you.

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

55 minutes ago, sima66 said:

Adapter is still working in the original way.

Problem is that, when I use in the USB chain, I don't have the 5V coming into the USPCB and that's why I need to ad an external 5V.

 

Difficult to see what you have done since the heat-shrink you left is obscuring view of the pins of the B plug.  Did you completely cut the 5V pin where it connects to the board? Or did you just move the VBUS switch to the OFF position (which is what I would do if I was trying to turn a USPCB into a VBUS injector.

 

But what place are you using the USPCB?  In other words, what do you have its 'A' plug connected to?

Looks like you tortured the USB 'A' plug pretty badly too.

I'm sure you realize you have voided your USPCB's 3-year warranty! 

 

Some people seem to think that the USPCB has some "magical' function in a chain.  It does not.  It is only meant to substitute for a cable.  The idea being that it is not a cable--rather it is a proper impedance designed, shielded, 4-layer PCB.  The point of it is to maintain high signal integrity from the output of an ISO REGEN or other device.