DAC with I2S connection

[anroj]

Hi all, my apologies if this has been covered previously, and if it's a ignorant question, but I am considering going to DSD512 and the DAC I'm looking at has I2S connections. Is this as simple as connecting an HDMI cable from my PC to the potential new DAC or do I need to purchase some type of third party device to get this to work?

[scan80269]

12 minutes ago, anroj said:

Hi all, my apologies if this has been covered previously, and if it's a ignorant question, but I am considering going to DSD512 and the DAC I'm looking at has I2S connections. Is this as simple as connecting an HDMI cable from my PC to the potential new DAC or do I need to purchase some type of third party device to get this to work?

HDMI signals from a PC carry video, for example to a display.  A DAC with I2S input uses the same HDMI connector for digital audio, but the I2S signals are completely different than HDMI video signals.  Do not attempt to connect a PC HDMI video port directly to a DAC I2S-HDMI port!  To drive a DAC with I2S inputs using a PC, typically a DDC with USB input and I2S output via HDMI connector is needed.  An example of such a DDC is the Singxer SU-1.  A PC connects to the SU-1 with a USB cable, and the SU-1 connects to a DAC I2S-HDMI input with an HDMI cable, which needs to be kept as short as possible to uphold decent signal integrity.

 

[ted_b]

The Singxer is a good example as it allows for several pin out iterations for the HDMI handshake (done with dip switches).  The audio community has not standardized on simply one HDMI-as-I2S-vehicle, so flexibility is required.  Rockna, PS Audio, Holo, Audio-GD, etc have HDMI-based I2S connectors, but some use different pinouts, so do your homework before marrying a DDC with your I2S-capable dac. 

[anroj]

Thank you for the quick response. You have given me some great information here.

[anroj]

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

HDMI signals from a PC carry video, for example to a display.  A DAC with I2S input uses the same HDMI connector for digital audio, but the I2S signals are completely different than HDMI video signals.  Do not attempt to connect a PC HDMI video port directly to a DAC I2S-HDMI port!  To drive a DAC with I2S inputs using a PC, typically a DDC with USB input and I2S output via HDMI connector is needed.  An example of such a DDC is the Singxer SU-1.  A PC connects to the SU-1 with a USB cable, and the SU-1 connects to a DAC I2S-HDMI input with an HDMI cable, which needs to be kept as short as possible to uphold decent signal integrity.

Thank you for the response. I'm looking at the SU-1 now and the specs for I2S only shows DSD256. Does this device actually allow DSD512 output?

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

 

 

[scan80269]

5 minutes ago, anroj said:

Thank you for the response. I'm looking at the SU-1 now and the specs for I2S only shows DSD256. Does this device actually allow DSD512 output?

 

The Singxer SU-1 currently supports up to DSD256, but an upcoming firmware release is expected to add support for DSD512.

 

[anroj]

Awesome! Thank you.

[ted_b]

As I reported on this thread, the DSD512 I have tested successfully is currently going to be only with the Holo as the SU-1 back end.

[R1200CL]

It's my understanding that an i2s implementation on a DAC can be done at least 2 different ways. 
The DAC could reclock the i2s (PS-Audio?), or accept the i2s signal as is using it’s internal master clock. 

Is this correctly understood ?

Next questions:

Why would one prefer i2s over USB into a DAC ? ( or visa versa). 
 

What’s the difference between a ethernet to USB conversation (The Rendu’s as an example) VS an ethernet to i2s conversion ? (Mano Ultra MKII as an example)

[botrytis]

I2S is basically Sony's implementation of Thunderbolt connections. It supposedly just transfers digital signal, but it also could be encrypted, not sure. The problem with I2S is the expense because, there is a charge of $15 per connection (like Thunderbolt for the chips needed for it) and the overhead needed for communication between devices is very large.

 

Pioneer and others used I2S on certain Universal Disc players, but it was used for only a year or two.

[R1200CL]

Google says:

 

I2S (Inter-IC Sound), is an electrical serial bus interface standard used for connecting digital audio devices together. It is used to communicate PCM audio data between integrated circuits in an electronic device.

An I2S bus that follows the Philips standard is made up of at least three wires:

• SCK (Serial Clock): is the clock signal also referred as BCLK (Bit Clock Line);
• FS (Frame Select): used to discriminate Right or Left Channel data also referred WS(Word Select);
• SD (Serial Data): the serial data to be transmitted;

As detailed below, the device who generates SCK and WS is the Master.

The SCK line has a frequency that depends on the sample rate, the number of bits for channel and the number of channels in the following way:

Frequency = SampleRate x BitsPerChannel x numberOfChannels

In a typical setup, the sender of audio data is called a Transmitter and it transfers data to a Receiver at the other end. The device that controls the bus clock, SCK, together with the Word Select - WS - signal is the Master in the network and in any network just one device can be Master at any given time; all the other devices connected are in Slave mode. The Master can be the Transmitter, or the Receiver, or a standalone controller. The digitized audio data sample can have a size ranging from 4 bits up to 32. 

As a general rule of thumb, the higher the sample rate (kHz) and bits per sample, the better audio quality (when the digital data is converted back to analog audio sound).

For more information about the I2S protocol see the I2S specifications.

 

And here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

 

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/introduction-to-the-i2s-interface/

[botrytis]

Not what my Pioneer Universal player owner's manual states. Just saying.

 

 

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

It's my understanding that an i2s implementation on a DAC can be done at least 2 different ways. 
The DAC could reclock the i2s (PS-Audio?), or accept the i2s signal as is using it’s internal master clock. 

Is this correctly understood ?

Next questions:

Why would one prefer i2s over USB into a DAC ? ( or visa versa). 
 

What’s the difference between a ethernet to USB conversation (The Rendu’s as an example) VS an ethernet to i2s conversion ? (Mano Ultra MKII as an example)

 correctly understood, usually it is best to have the DAC do the reclocking.

 

I2S sounded better to me than USB, yet I expect it all is down to implementation....I assume that a great USB implementation (something like the Taiko USB card) can hold its water against a Pink Faun Ultra OCXO I2S card.

 

I like to use a little conversions as possible, hence my preference for I2S (given I adapted my DAC for I2S in), less is more and all that.