System requirements DSD 512-wired, wireless bridge, power line

[Shredder]

Morning. Great forum. This is my first post here. I am a huge music fan and was an early adopter of computer audio (Squeezebox, Transporter) but am not very computer savvy beyond the most basic network setup.

 

I just bought a Sonictransporter customized to run HQP (quad core, etc.). My plan is to begin using it to run HQP (w/Roon)to upsample to DSD 512 (microrendu streamer and deciding b/w T+A DSD 8 and Lampizator Atlantic dacs).

 

My server is wired ethernet to my network with a gigabit switch. I have a Century link PK5000 (10/100 maps) router for internet.

 

I have great wireless coverage in my listening room but no wired ethernet. For various reasons, it will be difficult to set up a wired connection.

 

So, I am wondering whether a wireless bridge will work? If there is any chance, I am willing to get a new ultrafast wireless router.

 

Any chance power lines will work. I use them in another room and they run consistently at 100mbps. Not sure that is fast enough.

 

Stressing a bit about this new project. Any inout will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[4est]

Morning. Great forum. This is my first post here. I am a huge music fan and was an early adopter of computer audio (Squeezebox, Transporter) but am not very computer savvy beyond the most basic network setup.

 

I just bought a Sonictransporter customized to run HQP (quad core, etc.). My plan is to begin using it to run HQP (w/Roon)to upsample to DSD 512 (microrendu streamer and deciding b/w T+A DSD 8 and Lampizator Atlantic dacs).

 

My server is wired ethernet to my network with a gigabit switch. I have a Century link PK5000 (10/100 maps) router for internet.

 

I have great wireless coverage in my listening room but no wired ethernet. For various reasons, it will be difficult to set up a wired connection.

 

So, I am wondering whether a wireless bridge will work? If there is any chance, I am willing to get a new ultrafast wireless router.

 

Any chance power lines will work. I use them in another room and they run consistently at 100mbps. Not sure that is fast enough.

 

Stressing a bit about this new project. Any inout will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Will the mRendu do DSD512 with an Amanero(T&A, Lampi) yet? I've been waiting to see if they get it to work...

[ted_b]

DSD512 will currently require a Windows ASIO driver with those Amanero-based dacs. I wouldn't hold my breath about them (Amanero) getting their Linux act together anytime soon, but anything is possible.

 

I suppose Power Line will work; 100mbps is plenty, literally, and assume it's bandwidth is more stable than wifi. But just speaking theoretically; I use wired copper or fiber combo.

[4est]

DSD512 will currently require a Windows ASIO driver with those Amanero-based dacs. I wouldn't hold my breath about them (Amanero) getting their Linux act together anytime soon, but anything is possible.

 

One has gotta hope!

[Shredder]

Thanks.

 

Glad I asked this as I do not even know what and Amanero-based dac is. The Sonictransporter for HQP uses Windows 10. Can I use the Windows Asio driver on W10 with these dacs? What is required to play 512 on those dacs (other than the $15k SGM server)?

 

Any more thoughts on my network?

 

Thanks again.

[Shredder]

Oh, and based on some other post that I have read here (but may not have understood), I get the ipmpression that I could forego the MR and just plug my server into the back of my dac w/ a usb cable? Would that help reduce network issues (I know I would still have to use Ethernet/wireless bridge/powerline for internet/Tidal)?

[ted_b]

Most dac manufacturers use off-the-shelf USB cards/chips, and Amanero is the comapny that T+A and Lampi have chosen. Yes, you can use their ASIO drivers in Win 10 to get DSD512. But the best sound will be when you use the microRendu's great USB handshake to the Amanero chip on the dac, and today that only goes to 256 (I think it does 256) via DoP. Once direct native DSD is supported (which will get you DSD512 in Linux) that will be your best sq, IMHO, using the uRendu as an NAA.

[jtwrace]

Most dac manufacturers use off-the-shelf USB cards/chips, and Amanero is the comapny that T+A and Lampi have chosen. Yes, you can use their ASIO drivers in Win 10 to get DSD512. But the best sound will be when you use the microRendu's great USB handshake to the Amanero chip on the dac, and today that only goes to 256 (I think it does 256) via DoP. Once direct native DSD is supported (which will get you DSD512 in Linux) that will be your best sq, IMHO, using the uRendu as an NAA.

 

µRendu

SOFTWARE FEATURES

 

Supports the following PCM sample rates up to: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, and 768kHz

Supports the following DSD sample rates up to: DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512

Not all USB devices or output modes support the maximum sample rate of the unit

RoonReady certified

Running Logitech Media Server locally allows playback of local radio stations and streaming service

Logitech Media Server allows you to use the unit as a UPNP server in combination with Drive Mounter

The Software Manager that allows you to install and uninstall apps as needed

BubbleUPNP Server app allows any renderer to take advantage of the OhMedia - OpenHome protocol

OhMedia - OpenHome protocol allows the Linn Kinsky and Linn Kazoo Apps with playlist support to be used as controllers

Supports Tidal and Qobuz lossless streaming in Squeezelite output mode and DLNA output mode

Native DSD is supported on certain DACs

The unit is controlled via third party apps on your mobile device and on your computer

Based on Sonicorbiter, closed source and open source (GNU -V2)

[Shredder]

Andrew from SMC said that there was no hardware limitation preventing the MR from playing 512. I may have asked the question worng or misunderstood your answer.

 

If I plug my server directly into my dac, will that limit some network issues? If I plug the server into a Regen and then into my dac, will that accomplish the USB handshake? I would not need the additional MR functionality with this set up, would I?

 

Thanks.

[smartin]

What CPU is in the Sonictransporter? Not sure you're going to have the horsepower to do what you plan...

[Shredder]

The ST is i7, quad core specifically built to run HQP.

[4est]

Andrew from SMC said that there was no hardware limitation preventing the MR from playing 512. I may have asked the question worng or misunderstood your answer.

 

If I plug my server directly into my dac, will that limit some network issues? If I plug the server into a Regen and then into my dac, will that accomplish the USB handshake? I would not need the additional MR functionality with this set up, would I?

 

Thanks.

 

The hardware will do DSD512, but there is no driver for it in the mRendu because Amanero has not made one AFAIK.

[4est]

µRendu

SOFTWARE FEATURES

 

Supports the following PCM sample rates up to: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, and 768kHz

Supports the following DSD sample rates up to: DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512

Not all USB devices or output modes support the maximum sample rate of the unit

RoonReady certified

Running Logitech Media Server locally allows playback of local radio stations and streaming service

Logitech Media Server allows you to use the unit as a UPNP server in combination with Drive Mounter

The Software Manager that allows you to install and uninstall apps as needed

BubbleUPNP Server app allows any renderer to take advantage of the OhMedia - OpenHome protocol

OhMedia - OpenHome protocol allows the Linn Kinsky and Linn Kazoo Apps with playlist support to be used as controllers

Supports Tidal and Qobuz lossless streaming in Squeezelite output mode and DLNA output mode

Native DSD is supported on certain DACs

The unit is controlled via third party apps on your mobile device and on your computer

Based on Sonicorbiter, closed source and open source (GNU -V2)

 

 

"Not all USB devices or output modes support the maximum sample rate of the unit"

[Shredder]

Got it.

 

Lampi, however, told me that I can stream 512 by plugging my server into its USB port. Any reason why that would not work?

 

And, in a related vain, will plugging the server directly into the DAC using ethernet only for internet and Tidal be a way to reduce networking issues and drops?

 

Will putting a Regen in between the server and the dac make this setup function better from and SQ standpoint?

 

What is the downside to this approach?

 

Thanks much. What a great resource.

[hifial]

Shredder, let me see if I can help explain it for you, to sone point at least.

 

From what you mentioned about your SMC it should have no problems doing DSD512 with HQP and if you wanted to would also be able to do Roon at the same time with HQP. So no issues there.

 

But, a DAC needs a Driver on the PC so that it can play DSD512, besides the DAC being able to do DSD512. The T+A DAC 8 DSD has that Driver and is capable of DSD512. (PS that Driver needs to be down loaded from the T+A web site before use)

But, that Driver is ONLY Windows based. And the mRendu is Linux based, and at the moment there is no Linux Driver for the T+A, and some other DSD512 DACs out there.

 

You do NOT need the mRendu to play DSD512 with the T+A or any other DSD512 DAC.

As far as a Regen that should be fine. But I would not sweat it.

 

Keep in mind both the T+A and the Lampi do not use the power in the USB cable so you can benefit from that by using a USB cable that does not use/have a power leg in it. Such as the new Sablon 2017 USB cable that works with both DACs. I have been demoing one and it is the best one of the ones I have tried or used. I urge all to give it a try. But give it at least 50 hours before you listen, though it sounds really good after 10 hours or so.

 

I would NOT use Power Line. Try another way if you can. I agree that if you can, use copper or fiber.

 

So do not stress. You can do DSD512 with either the Lampi or T+A and the SMC. Just forego the mRendu, hopefully for just a little while.

 

I hope that helped.

[hifial]

Got it.

 

Lampi, however, told me that I can stream 512 by plugging my server into its USB port. Any reason why that would not work?

 

And, in a related vain, will plugging the server directly into the DAC using ethernet only for internet and Tidal be a way to reduce networking issues and drops?

 

Will putting a Regen in between the server and the dac make this setup function better from and SQ standpoint?

 

What is the downside to this approach?

 

Thanks much. What a great resource.

 

OK, here is how I use mine when I had a purpose built PC before my SGM2015.

 

Plug the DAC into the PC.

Plug the Ethernet into the PC.

Play Tidal etc from the PC to the DAC.

 

 

 

No need for the Regen but if you have one try it you might like it. If you do not have a Regen Alex has a trial period I believe.

 

 

Good luck.

[ted_b]

µRendu

SOFTWARE FEATURES

 

Supports the following PCM sample rates up to: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, and 768kHz

Supports the following DSD sample rates up to: DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512

Not all USB devices or output modes support the maximum sample rate of the unit

 

Not sure your point Jason. Yes, everyone knows the microRendu does indeed support DSD512 in Linux (and Windows). I play it every day. My point was not about the generic capabilities of the microRendu with certified dacs, but instead the limitation of the Amanero Linux driver that affects dacs like Lampi and T+A! Same can be said for other dacs. The correct Linux code and dac id needs to be on the list. For Amanero ones currently......nada.

[Shredder]

Eureka!!! I understand. I was confused by the focus on Linux given that I had a Windows server. Thanks so much for the clarifications, I am dense, but things eventually get through.

 

So, it sounds like I should go the server direct to dac route. Will actually save me about $1k (MR and LPS). Wow, how often does that happen.

 

Thanks everyone, I so appreciate the prompt, clear, and well informed responses. Take care.

[Shredder]

This is clearly off my own topic, but it seems like you guys may have an opinion. T+A v/ Lampi???

[smartin]

This is clearly off my own topic, but it seems like you guys may have an opinion. T+A v/ Lampi???

I've been trying to decide between those (and to a lesser degree the Holo Spring) for the last month. I've listened to several examples, and they sounds quite different. Lampi is a bit of a moving target, there are so many possible configurations (meaning it's not T+A/Lampi, but T+A/Lampi/Lampi/Lampi/...) I also do a lot of listening via headphones, so had to add a headphone amp (or maybe not in case of the T+A) to the mix of possible combinations. I've decided at least 3 times on what to purchase, but have not yet actually done so... Initially I was going to buy without trying, but decided it was too big a purchase to do that. After a month of trial and error, I'm not so sure I'm any better off =). If you have a clear preference tube vs. non-tube sound, that might help (though if your considering a non-rectified Atlantic, maybe not...).

 

Hrmm, that's a lot of words that say very little... I have enjoyed every combination I have listened to, but have no clear favorite. I am however leaning towards a Lampi at this point. While I have heard people complain of the fact that Lampis are constantly upgrading their offerings (meaning you order something and by the time it arrives it's already 'outdated'), I really like the fact that if you do decide to 'upgrade' at some point, you're only out the incremental cost (and the time it takes to ship/install).

[Shredder]

I like tubes. I like holographic imaging, air, a rich and natural tone, and am susceptible to listener fatigue from ultraresolving (and bright) systems. My current source is a tube modded Modwright Transporter. I also have a Cary tube pre. (rest of system, Modwright 150se ss power amp, Aerial Model 9 speakers).

 

I have spent some time with a big 7 and loved it. Not really in my price range, however. Based on my Lampi experience, several reviews, and communications with other Lampi owners, I am considering an Atlantic DSD only, balanced, with tube rectification.

 

Given my preferences, the Lampi is an obvious choice for me. I am nonetheless interested in the T+A because of the reviews I have read (especially Michael Lavorgna's) comparing it to the very best and most expensive dacs made, at least when playing upsampled DSD 512. And, the T+A is much less expensive than the Lampi with the upgrades (and at least one upgrade is required to facilitate 512).

 

I have not heard the T+A and will not likely be able to. Can you compare the relative sounds? Can its filters (or HQP's filtres) be adjusted to make it closer to a tube sound.

 

Thanks for the help.

[hifial]

I like tubes. I like holographic imaging, air, a rich and natural tone, and am susceptible to listener fatigue from ultraresolving (and bright) systems. My current source is a tube modded Modwright Transporter. I also have a Cary tube pre. (rest of system, Modwright 150se ss power amp, Aerial Model 9 speakers).

 

I have spent some time with a big 7 and loved it. Not really in my price range, however. Based on my Lampi experience, several reviews, and communications with other Lampi owners, I am considering an Atlantic DSD only, balanced, with tube rectification.

 

Given my preferences, the Lampi is an obvious choice for me. I am nonetheless interested in the T+A because of the reviews I have read (especially Michael Lavorgna's) comparing it to the very best and most expensive dacs made, at least when playing upsampled DSD 512. And, the T+A is much less expensive than the Lampi with the upgrades (and at least one upgrade is required to facilitate 512).

 

I have not heard the T+A and will not likely be able to. Can you compare the relative sounds? Can its filters (or HQP's filtres) be adjusted to make it closer to a tube sound.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

A friend liked the T+A with his Modwright. And many people find a great balance when they have a tube pre with a SS amp like you do. So I would suggest to try them in your system first.

With both of these it is more a matter of taste.

 

Not sure where you live but depending where I would be willing to bring my T+A over for a listen.

 

And that goes for anyone else in the NJ/NY Metro area. And parts of PA and CT.

[smartin]

I agree the T+A does sounds great, but it is very different than a rectified Lampi, and while I stuck with my usual preferences in HQP, I doubt there's a filter that would narrow the differences significantly. For the Lampi's, I've listened to a balanced GG @ 256; a rectified, balanced Atlantic @256; and both a rectified and SS SE Atlantic with the chipless (512) DSD module. I did significantly prefer the chipless DSD, but that's not a variable for you since you want 512. Seems it's not an issue for you, but I did prefer PCM via the Lampi R2R compared to the T+A (but I'm in a similar position where I'm primarily interested in DSD512, though I think I will keep the R2R if I go Lampi, just for flexibility). I used a neutral SS headphone amp (Simaudio Moon 430) with most of them (I specifically wanted to isolate the DAC differences as much as possible), so I'm not sure how much having the tube pre would even things out in comparison to my experience. But given your history and preferences, I suspect you'd like the T+A, but always wonder what could of been if you'd only spent a couple more K$.

[Shredder]

Hifial, I do very much like the combo of ss and tubes. That does make me think the T+A could work (even though my current DAC is tubed). I appreciate the offer of a demo, but I live in Colorado.

 

smartin. Thank for the input. Not sure what you mean by ""chipless (512) dac module." I do not recall seeing that option on the website and do not understand why it won't play 512. BTW, from your comments, I assume that tube rectification is worthwhile?

 

Thanks again.

[smartin]

smartin. Thank for the input. Not sure what you mean by ""chipless (512) dac module." I do not recall seeing that option on the website and do not understand why it won't play 512. BTW, from your comments, I assume that tube rectification is worthwhile?

 

Thanks again.

 

I thought maybe you had already gone down the Lampi rabbit hole =). It took me a long time to understand their options (still not 100% sure I have it down...) Lampi uses three signal paths in their products. The basic Atlantic model uses a delta-sigma chip (not sure if it's an ESS or what), that provides PCM and DSD256 capabilities. As an option on the Atlantic (I think standard on GA) you can replace the DSM chip with an R2R set up that will also do PCM/DSD256. When you upgrade to DSD512 you are getting a separate chipless module (that works like T+A's DSD path) that only plays DSD, up to 512.

 

So there are several possible combinations. If you get an Atlantic and upgrade to DSD 512, you will have a DAC that has two processing paths (just like the T+A Dac 8 DSD set up), one that can do PCM and DSD (up to 256) using a canned DAC chip, the other that is chipless and can only do DSD (up to 512). While the first path can do DSD, all DSD is routed to the chipless path.

 

You can 'upgrade' (it costs more, and I think it sounds better, but the difference is subtle to me) the canned DAC chip to an R2R ladder based path, with or without the separate chipless DSD module.

 

And the final possibility is DSD only, like your considering, where you only get the chipless DSD module, that can play up to 512.

 

As far as the rectifier, I think for you it is definitely worthwhile as it has a significant impact on the sound. It's not necessarily better, but it's much more 'tubey' (and is the only tube that you can roll in the Atlantic, for what that is worth)