Listen to cable directionality

[17629v2]

If they were the LC1, they may not be a good match with all equipment.

 

Maybe. But I thought these things were supposed to be universally good. At least that's how people talk about them. I believe they were the LC1. I remember specifically wanting to try a solid core cable. It was a well made cable and I wouldn't hesitate to use it in an entry level system or theater, but under serious listening with resolving gear, its weaknesses became apparent. And to be fair, there's cables that eclipse the AQ's I was using.

[witchdoctor]

Witchdoctor.

Different topology equipment designs don't have identical interconnect requirements. In my own gear for example, the 0 volts (earth) reference resistance right from the DAC to the Power Amplifier DOES matter for best results, as it is switched through the preamp as well.

In this case a good coax cable with twin shielding will result in a much lower resistance 0 volts reference and higher S/N.

 

Alex

 

Then what you are saying is that coax is not always better, it depends on the equipment you use, is that right?

[sandyk]

Then what you are saying is that coax is not always better, it depends on the equipment you use, is that right?

 

Essentially. Which is why these tests would prove nothing, just like with the previous tests.

You really need to hear these things directly without an A/D conversion.

[witchdoctor]

I just tried some of Blue Jeans best IC's, I think hey were Belden, and they really couldn't compete with my Audioquest. Definitely less transparent, and they clearly imposed they're own sound on the music. What am I missing?

 

Everyone wants champagne on a beer budget, BJC appeals to that crowd and cable haters in general. I tried BJC and they sounded compressed, like a blanket over my speakers. To pay good money for speakers and an amp and then ruin it by "saving money" on cables is probably the stupidest thing I see people "brag" about. It only proves they damaged their hearing by rocking out too much or have a really bad synergy between their room and their components, so bad that nothing would matter.

[esldude]

I just tried some of Blue Jeans best IC's, I think hey were Belden, and they really couldn't compete with my Audioquest. Definitely less transparent, and they clearly imposed they're own sound on the music. What am I missing?

 

That things other than sound effect your perception of sound.

[esldude]

Everyone wants champagne on a beer budget, BJC appeals to that crowd and cable haters in general. I tried BJC and they sounded compressed, like a blanket over my speakers. To pay good money for speakers and an amp and then ruin it by "saving money" on cables is probably the stupidest thing I see people "brag" about. It only proves they damaged their hearing by rocking out too much or have a really bad synergy between their room and their components, so bad that nothing would matter.

 

Lots of people won't accept champagne on a beer budget. Really too bad. At least paying the champagne price usually doesn't cause any ill effects.

[esldude]

Essentially. Which is why these tests would prove nothing, just like with the previous tests.

You really need to hear these things directly without an A/D conversion.

 

All anyone needs to do is show they can hear the extra step of A/D verses no A/D. I seem to recall many couldn't hear no A/D vs 8 compounded A/D steps. But that is just some pesky data. We don't want to upset anyone too much.

[sandyk]

All anyone needs to do is show they can hear the extra step of A/D verses no A/D. I seem to recall many couldn't hear no A/D vs 8 compounded A/D steps. But that is just some pesky data. We don't want to upset anyone too much.

 

 

Dennis

You were in the position of being able to hear these differences directly, and were unable to hear any differences whatsoever.

You then put them through another stage of A/D conversion with the utter expectation that there were no differences to hear. Correct ?

It's no surprise then that there was no consensus from the tests. In the event of very subtle differences actually existing, another round of A/D would have annihilated them.

 

Alex

[esldude]

Dennis

You were in the position of being able to hear these differences directly, and were unable to hear any differences whatsoever.

You then put them through another stage of A/D conversion with the utter expectation that there were no differences to hear. Correct ?

It's no surprise then that there was no consensus from the tests. In the event of very subtle differences actually existing, another round of A/D would have annihilated them.

 

Alex

 

I started to explain why, but really? Your logic here is notable only for its lack. You claim an AD step prevents differences from being heard. So I offer to let you hear no conversion vs 8 conversions. And you are now saying there would be no differences apparent? One or the other or both of your suppositions makes no sense.

[witchdoctor]

Lots of people won't accept champagne on a beer budget. Really too bad. At least paying the champagne price usually doesn't cause any ill effects.

 

You are saying lots of people "won't" accept champagne on a beer budget? Are you saying they "wouldn't" want a bottle of Cristal for the price of a six pack of Bud???

I don't get it. My point is the cable haters of the world actually believe that they can get "Cristal quality cables" for the same price as Budweiser. That is grounded in the same fantasy as buying Cristal for Budweiser prices, it doesn't exist.

 

[sandyk]

I started to explain why, but really? Your logic here is notable only for its lack. You claim an AD step prevents differences from being heard. So I offer to let you hear no conversion vs 8 conversions. And you are now saying there would be no differences apparent? One or the other or both of your suppositions makes no sense.

 

What I am saying here is that you were sure there were no differences to be heard, even directly, then decided to do an A/D conversion knowing full well what the results were almost certainly likely to be in advance .

Random or NIL. !

I have already covered the other one on numerous occasions. There was no original file, only a processed version of it. You had already degraded it just as you have done here with an A/D conversion via the same mediocre USB A/D converter.

 

P.S.

We are getting nowhere rehashing that previous failed experiment that attracted so little member interest.

[witchdoctor]

Case in point, Emotiva claims their $15 digital cable will blow away everything else. I bought it. Looked good, solid, nicely made. Then I plugged it in and waited for it to break in. It never did and TG I only wasted $15. In all fairness though the $200 Mapleshade Excalibur Plus did take down my $1000 Virtual Dynamic Reference but $200 is not exactly el cheapo either.

[witchdoctor]

What I am saying here is that you were sure there were no differences to be heard, even directly, then decided to do an A/D conversion knowing full well what the results were almost certainly likely to be in advance .

Random or NIL. !

I have already covered the other one on numerous occasions. There was no original file, only a processed version of it. You had already degraded it just as you have done here with an A/D conversion via the same mediocre USB A/D converter.

 

P.S.

We are getting nowhere rehashing that previous failed experiment that attracted so little member interest.

 

In all fairness I heard differences which were very pronounced on track two in my system. Not even close.

[esldude]

You are saying lots of people "won't" accept champagne on a beer budget? Are you saying they "wouldn't" want a bottle of Cristal for the price of a six pack of Bud???

I don't get it. My point is the cable haters of the world actually believe that they can get "Cristal quality cables" for the same price as Budweiser. That is grounded in the same fantasy as buying Cristal for Budweiser prices, it doesn't exist.

 

 

You make my case. If someone made a Cristal equivalent, and offered it to you for $10, you already rejected the possibility.

[sandyk]

In all fairness I heard differences which were very pronounced on track two in my system. Not even close.

 

I heard them too, as did several others who thought 2B sounded better.

However, there was NO consensus about 2A sounding better !

It does NOT prove they were due to cable direction. There could even have been other background housekeeping PC processes running, or higher RF/EMI via the AC mains when 2B was recorded that affected the end result.

[esldude]

What I am saying here is that you were sure there were no differences to be heard, even directly, then decided to do an A/D conversion knowing full well what the results were almost certainly likely to be in advance .

Random or NIL. !

I have already covered the other one on numerous occasions. There was no original file, only a processed version of it. You had already degraded it just as you have done here with an A/D conversion via the same mediocre USB A/D converter.

 

P.S.

We are getting nowhere rehashing that previous failed experiment that attracted so little member interest.

 

I agree. First you imply any AD conversion swamps any differences by being different than not having a conversion. Then you turn around and imply the reverse. Rehashing that is a waste of time for sure.

[esldude]

I heard them too, as did several others who thought 2B sounded better.

However, there was NO consensus about 2A sounding better !

It does NOT prove they were due to cable direction. There could even have been other background housekeeping PC processes running, or higher RF/EMI via the AC mains when 2B was recorded that affected the end result.

 

Yet all of these imagined possible issues fail to show up in the recorded files. THEY ARE NOT THERE.

[witchdoctor]

I thought 2A sounded better

[witchdoctor]

You make my case. If someone made a Cristal equivalent, and offered it to you for $10, you already rejected the possibility.

 

Maybe you missed my other post. Someone at Emotiva thought their $15 digital cables were the Cristal of cables. I didn't "reject the possibility", I bought them. BJC makes a lot of great claims on their website, same thing. Both times I was greeted with a cold dose of reality, cheap cables suck:)

What did that member call Bud, "swill"? That about describes the cheap cables I have auditioned with the exception of maybe Mogami, it's good enough for my subwoofer and when I have to use long cable runs.

[sandyk]

I agree. First you imply any AD conversion swamps any differences by being different than not having a conversion. Then you turn around and imply the reverse. Rehashing that is a waste of time for sure.

 

You are twisting my words. Any further conversion via an external A/D process can not possibly improve the sound quality of the files and will always degrade the original, just as it does in the recording studio during mixing. I have simply stated that any differences heard are extremely unlikely to have had anything to do with differences due to the cables , which by your own admission were inaudible before the conversion, and had other causes not associated with the original files.

USB which you used for re-recording is notorious for susceptibility to AC mains related issues.

[sandyk]

Yet all of these imagined possible issues fail to show up in the recorded files. THEY ARE NOT THERE.

 

Neither are there differences between the files due to the cables either, according to others who compared them using measuring techniques.

We can also safely bet either of our balls that you found no differences between them when you looked in-depth at them yourself !

Are you admitting that your own measurements are not capable of showing such differences either?

[Sal1950]

Neither are there differences between the files due to the cables either, according to others who compared them using measuring techniques.

We can also safely bet either of our balls that you found no differences between them when you looked in-depth at them yourself !

Are you admitting that your own measurements are not capable of showing such differences ?

What part of "you can't measure differences that don't exist" can't you understand?

[Sal1950]

I just tried some of Blue Jeans best IC's, I think hey were Belden, and they really couldn't compete with my Audioquest. Definitely less transparent, and they clearly imposed they're own sound on the music. What am I missing?

 

Everyone wants champagne on a beer budget, BJC appeals to that crowd and cable haters in general. I tried BJC and they sounded compressed, like a blanket over my speakers. To pay good money for speakers and an amp and then ruin it by "saving money" on cables is probably the stupidest thing I see people "brag" about. It only proves they damaged their hearing by rocking out too much or have a really bad synergy between their room and their components, so bad that nothing would matter.

Two possibility at work here,

Either the load presented by your sending or receiving gear is so non-standard that a poorly designed/spec'd cable = flatter response.

Or you just prefer a induced tonal imbalance over accuracy.

 

Or three, you just have to have bragging rights to expensive cable to further inflate your ego even if said cable is no better sounding than $2.50 a foot Belden.

[sandyk]

What part of "you can't measure differences that don't exist" can't you understand?

 

Of course you can't measure differences that don't exist. However, I have proof via a series of DBTs etc. that audible differences between the comparison files that I provide do exist, even if you smart arse know-it-alls are unable to come up with suitable measurement methodology, and are too effing deaf to hear them !

 

Perhaps we need to change your usernames to a D.C.xx designation?

You could be D.C.001 for example !

 

At this point in time, I am no longer convinced that Dennis would qualify for membership of this group though, and believe that he is likely to come up with improved measurement methodology in the future.

[17629v2]

Then what you are saying is that coax is not always better, it depends on the equipment you use, is that right?

 

For the most part yes, but its not always that simple. Better is subjective so you need to be careful with your assessment. For example, take silver. Its a better conductor than copper and its much more expensive. But that doesn't guarantee good sound. Silver needs to be tried in each application because it can sound subjectively better or worse than a copper cable (assuming all other things are equal). Now if you look at another area, such as metal purity, I've never had a situation where a more pure metal subjectively sounded worse than a lower quality metal. So, if I had to make a recommendation without listening, I definitely wouldn't touch anything silver, but I would feel pretty comfortable recommending a cable with a higher quality metal. You just have to use your best judgement.