ECdesigns

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2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Pictures, please 🙂

 

Matt

sorry it's not photogenic  but I have described above....

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1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

Do you expect to resell both of your Ps Audio DAC and Antipods?🙂

No I will probably keep both. The Antipodes is a dedicated music server and allows for continuous software upgrades from the company. I wouldn't be happy using my macbook pro as music source as it has other uses as well. The PSAudio Junior is a very versatile and lovely sounding DAC with many inputs - also allows for free software updates which can be significant changes in SQ. If the EC DAC had more than 1 input I would reconsider.

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14 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I made a strange discovery this afternoon. I put my portable AM radio, above the back of the DAC, set at 198 khz, and it "recieved" the music I was playing at the time! I powered off my amplifier, and confirmed it comes from the DAC.

Thats fascinating, never heard of this!

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8 hours ago, matthias said:

So I am not going to buy the ECD combo until there is clarification that both work together without issues.

I hope this helps, I appreciate all impressions so far 🙂

No problems, we are only teasing. Mind you if you got the EC combo first you might save yourself a lot of money

 

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9 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Can you explain?

Thanks

 

Matt

If you try the EC combo with whatever source you have already you may find you don't need to buy anything else

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12 hours ago, hopkins said:

....the difficulty of drawing any serious conclusions from tests done with a compromised digital system (even if it does cost thousands of euros). For all we know, this could simply be particular to a given system, at a given time, and of no general benefit....   The U192 is going to bring back some "order" (sanity) to things ☺️

I agree - audio systems are a very complex electrical circuits prone to micro fluctuations from one second to the next due to radiation, magnetics and interference. In tandem with this the whole business of reading about listening tests is problematic to say the least, but it's often the best we have in this hobby where it's hard to audition everything at home with the kind of niche products we are interested in. However the law is on our side and if we don't like something we can send it back.

 

I always take listening reports with a pinch of salt as bias and exaggeration are a big part of audiophilia. I found that even having a new visitor for a listening session affected how I heard! 

 

The U192& Fractal DAC seems to extract what is essential and reject what is unnecessary from the source stream. Then providing a great signal to the amplification and speaker part of the chain.

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2 hours ago, matthias said:

I think I explained my reasoning in post #748

I understood thanks Matt - but I don't know what your plan is.  I was just making a friendly comment that whatever source you already have combined with the EC combo will very likely satisfy you. I have found this to be the case with all kinds of different sources as reported.

 

I have a Raspberry somewhere and will try it just for the record, even though I have no intention of using. I find them a lot of fun to play around with but not for serious listening, but will be interesting to see how it works with the EC combo.

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12 hours ago, hopkins said:

Concerning the Raspberrypi, John found out that using a flimsy usb-c cable creates issues (power supply is variable) especially when power consumption is high. I bought a sturdy USB-C to DC jack adapter that has a good fit. 

Yes, I have found clean power (and thick enough cables) is essential..

 

12 hours ago, hopkins said:

One other drawback is the absence of high quality cases. 

For sure

 

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12 hours ago, Ben75 said:

What other input would you want on the Fractal DAC? 🙂

Just a question : can you give a try to the Macbook Pro with and without charging to the wall outlet? What were the differences of sound? Have you or would you get the opportunity to compare the Macbook Pro to a Macbook Air please?

What is your version of the Macbook Pro you use? What was its launch year?

 

Many thanks in advance for your answers.

 

Perhaps the Macbook Pro of this time was too noisy and that the Macbook Air of 2013 was excellent compared to it?

It seems strange that they come to those results..

Hi Ben. The Fractal DAC has only one input - the ElectroTos, and this will not allow for much pulling and inserting as it is not robust. The PS Audio Junior DAC has - I²S, Coax, XLR Balanced, TOSLINK, USB, & Ethernet inputs. Connected to a preamp this allows me to run the EC Combo for seriously enjoyable music and switch to the Junior DAC for other inputs.

 

Regarding the different Macs, I could currently do tests comparing a 2017 iMAC, a 2015 Macbook pro, a 2020 Macbook pro, and 2012 Mac Air but I honestly don't think there is any point. However the Macbook Pro 2015 whether connected to AC or running on battery does not make a difference with the EC Combo. And I am clear that I would never run the Macbook pro (without the EC Combo) as a music source on it's own as I cannot stand the harshness, yet with the EC Combo I could live with it. So I doubt there will be much difference between the different Macs but I havn't tried them all in comparison.

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16 hours ago, hopkins said:

I looked up an article by Archimago that I remembered reading a while ago, in which there were measurements of USB "noise" out of various laptops: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/05/measurements-computer-usb-5v-power.html?m=1

Both the USB 5V and the +/- data lines need to be free of noise and why I always inject the cleanest USB bus power 5V.

 

There are a lot of cleaners and isolators on the market, some that I have tried. Even with these in place it seems to matter what enters the DAC and what the DAC does. Definitely seems that EC designs have found a satisfactory way to deal with these through the ElectroTos interface.

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18 minutes ago, hopkins said:

...Honestly, I don't understand any of it. But you can read John Swenson's white paper and see if it makes sense to you...

The EtherRegen which I have explains everything. 😊

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7 hours ago, hopkins said:

I can't answer for others, but I can assure you that in my case I don't really feel like it would be worthwhile to spend more on the source at this point, other than perhaps for "practical" aspects, like getting an "all in one" server or something more "robust" than a Pi (and in a nice and cool aluminum case). 

I agree wholeheartedly. Apart from trying a Pi when I come back from being away, I have found very minor differences with different sources feeding the EC combo in my system. It has amazing SQ regardless of input - but that is in my setup and others may differ but I doubt it. This is very important news! 

 

I know how hard it is to give up endlessly tweaking, trying new things and reading about it, as this is a fun and big part of this hobby.

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10 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Actually for me this was a relief, especially as I suspected some (certainly not all!) of the perceived results of PC tweaking to be wishful thinking. Of course I wanted to hear the benefits of Apacer ECC wide temperature RAM, but did I ever really?

Of course one aspect of getting your hands on an EC setup is of experiencing a great relief. On the other hand - and this may not apply to you -  if you have been endlessly tweaking and seeking for years  you may find the itch coming back. Then it’s time to just settle back into the music. 
 

I can understand if someone has not taken the plunge then the searching goes on...and on.  

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10 hours ago, hopkins said:

In that line of thinking,  @austinpop who has "come out of the closet" to reveal his distaste of spaghetti is now a good candidate for trying the U192 + Fractal DAC and getting rid of a few more boxes 😁

 

All said in good spirit and respect for everyone's efforts and contributions! 

 

 

 

I have followed that thread for a long time and picked up many good tips and purchased based on (some) recommendations. The spaghetti though never appealed to me both aesthetically, practically and financially - but it is fun to follow.  £20-30k music servers is completely off limits although I would have dreamed of it at one point.  No longer. I would love someone to pick up on the EC combo, and put a cat among the pigeons of expensive sources 😊 (!) however having a big US audience does currently restrict access to EU only sales.  

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10 hours ago, Rexp said:

Would you say all your current tweaks are essential? 

In relation to having the EC combo in place - I will have to review everything to see what is necessary or not. Suffice to say that if I had the EC products earlier I would not have been interested is so much experimentation.

 

However I'm convinced clean power and having the whole system on one Isolation transformer for common grounding is essential. I will also try without the Ether Regen at some point as 98% of my listening is via Tidal

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3 hours ago, Huubster said:

The major difference for me, with the Fractal DAC in my chain, is that whatever I do, it keeps sounding very satisfying. There is a naturalness to the sound no other DAC I ever heard can do.

Exactly how I feel about it. I think there is an important distinction here between "whatever I do it keeps sounding very satisfying" versus "tweaking and seeking because there is a fundamental even if subtle, dissatisfaction". Once the EC combo is n place it's akin to arriving on a higher plateau of listening pleasure and ease.

 

Several posters are now experimenting from this place and it is interesting to read about. Personally I am less inclined as I'm not sure at present what else can be added.

 

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2 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

But at the end of the day, if you focus on SQ, these are small details and I forgive them 😊

 

2 hours ago, Huubster said:

My former DAC saw all kind of different cones, wooden and marble plates, feet etc, all to make it sound optimal to me.. Never got me satisfied. This ECDesign set is standing here, nothing underneath and between the 3, and sounds just awesome..

Exactly my opinion. The tweaking is part of the fun. I have added things I already had but can’t see at this point what else could be added to improve the SQ apart from a new home.  😊

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2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

As much as I start to like this design from a technical POV as much I dislike the casework of the ECD products. It appears to me flimsy, too small and lightweight. When comparing the casework of former ECD generations from the start of this thread with this generation I see no progress, quite the contrary. Why?

I think the casework of a product should mirror the technical excellence. I am reluctant to buy products where I have to place aluminium plates and doorstops on top to work properly. I think it should not be too difficult to design a real nice all metal case for these products.

These cases from one of your last posts are VERY nice for example:

https://wickedaluminum.com/collections/sbpccases/products/raspberry-pi-4-standard-case-with-heat-dissipation

 

Matt

Theoretically I would tend to agree with you but this is not borne out in the reality of listening to the EC combo.  Whether the heavier case/alu plates is more visually pleasing or makes a SQ difference or not I can’t really tell but does satisfy on some rational level  

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3 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Limited Edition

is that a hydra flopper flux capacitor with anti gravity spline orbs?

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1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

 

https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-acoustic-art

 

Ludicrous voodoo? I once found a set really cheap and could not resist. For me it is a constant reminder of the ritualistic nature of this hobby, and I got quite attached to it.

😱

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13 hours ago, hopkins said:

In terms of power supply, I did find that powering the U192 with "clean" power instead of the Pi's USB did improve things - need more time to confirm. But I have the following question: is it ok to connect one power supply, with a Y-cable (or USB hub, but only used for power), to provide power to the RaspberyPi and to the U192 ? Are there any risks ? Does it make any sense ?

I wouldn't but if the object is to use only one PSU then it can be done, presuming that the current draw of Pi and U192 will be well within the capacity of the PSU

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11 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Just curious, how do you technically power the U192, since the U192 is USB Vbus powered from the source?

Thanks

 

Matt

On 7/16/2020 at 10:54 PM, tapatrick said:

In the past I have had my best improvements by focussing on clean power and low noise regulators, especially with USB, so today I added a 5v USB injection to the USB cable just as it enters the U192 (from a Paul Hynes SR4). This enhanced the SQ with a slightly more liquid sound, and more lifelike quality to voices, slightly deeper bass and additional softer details.

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5 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Thanks. What are the downsides? 

Ground noise issues and/or defeating of any isolation.. ? but this would be best determined by listening

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11 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

https://www.ghentaudio.com/usb/u21.html

https://www.ghentaudio.com/usb/u22.html

The Ghent audio cable is good quality. That's what I am currently using to power the U192 - well worth if you have a spare LPSU, but if you are hard core you can wire without the connectors.

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7 hours ago, hopkins said:

You can use this type of cable as well to provide clean  power to the U192 seperately from the USB source: https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/cables-usb-hubs/cable-separateur-jack-dc-55-21mm-femelle-vers-usb-c-male-femelle-pour-alimentation-et-donnees-20cm-p-14052.html

No offence meant but that cable is not the best. I tried one similar from Audiophonics and at that price it's made from cheap components. Nothing wrong with that in the scheme of things but if we are discussing the fine details of effects on SQ between PSUs then the wire in cables matters too. YMMV