Linear Powered Rips & flash drives sound better - Alex was right !

[Audio_ELF]

I wasn't contradicting you; I was elaborating on what you said...

Sorry I misunderstood.

[Superdad]

Sorry also, I get this bad habit with my engineers to push them to think

Please read this document and read carefully what it is said about zero-bit data

 

Hang on Alfe and Dennis. Before we go any further in misunderstanding one another (I too am confused Alfe), allow me to ask a few basic questions:

 

1) Are you trying to show us (in Sonic Visualizer) a comparison of two files of the same music?

2) Do those two files, when compared with an checksum or MD5 bit comparator show up as having the exact same bits (in other words, the checksum code comes out the same for both files)?

 

If both 1 and 2 above are true, then please verify that your screen shots are showing the waveforms of these two files in exactly the same scale with all the same settings.

 

Our individual general beliefs aside, I think we are having trouble believing 1 and 2 above to be true since not only do the the waveforms shown end at a different point, even if aligned they are clearly not the same signal. Or are you just showing us left and right channels?

 

If you really have so easily uncovered a means to display differences between files that are bit-identical--really hard for almost all of us to believe, and impossible for some--then you have made the "breakthrough of the year." Otherwise you are showing us something else and are just not doing a good job of explaining to us what you are trying to show us.

 

I know there is some language challenge (and your English is still worlds better than my French), but please try to explain more.

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

[alfe]

Hang on Alfe and Dennis. Before we go any further in misunderstanding one another (I too am confused Alfe), allow me to ask a few basic questions:

 

1) Are you trying to show us (in Sonic Visualizer) a comparison of two files of the same music?

2) Do those two files, when compared with an checksum or MD5 bit comparator show up as having the exact same bits (in other words, the checksum code comes out the same for both files)?

 

If both 1 and 2 above are true, then please verify that your screen shots are showing the waveforms of these two files in exactly the same scale with all the same settings.

 

Our individual general beliefs aside, I think we are having trouble believing 1 and 2 above to be true since not only do the the waveforms shown end at a different point, even if aligned they are clearly not the same signal. Or are you just showing us left and right channels?

 

If you really have so easily uncovered a means to display differences between files that are bit-identical--really hard for almost all of us to believe, and impossible for some--then you have made the "breakthrough of the year." Otherwise you are showing us something else and are just not doing a good job of explaining to us what you are trying to show us.

 

I know there is some language challenge (and your English is still worlds better than my French), but please try to explain more.

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

 

I'm showing one file left and right channel, The only thing I'm trying to show is the noise at the end of the track no need for using the same scale I'm using only one file.

You see from the melodic range where the song end.

Forget about MDchecksum and identical files I'm just showing the noise that JS was talking about.

[kumakuma]

I'm showing one file left and right channel, The only thing I'm trying to show is the noise at the end of the track no need for using the same scale I'm using only one file.

You see from the melodic range where the song end.

Forget about MDchecksum and identical files I'm just showing the noise that JS was talking about.

 

You almost had Alex jumping out of his hospital bed to post that he was right.

[esldude]

I'm showing one file left and right channel, The only thing I'm trying to show is the noise at the end of the track no need for using the same scale I'm using only one file.

You see from the melodic range where the song end.

Forget about MDchecksum and identical files I'm just showing the noise that JS was talking about.

 

Unless you played these files from a hard drive or other media and recorded it, there is no reason to think the noise in those graphs are what JS was talking about. Could be there for any number of reasons. If it was noise picked up during the ripping process, re-ripping the file will not give checksums that match.

[alfe]

Unless you played these files from a hard drive or other media and recorded it, there is no reason to think the noise in those graphs are what JS was talking about. Could be there for any number of reasons. If it was noise picked up during the ripping process, re-ripping the file will not give checksums that match.

 

You have the files from Alex,you have the software do the test yourself.

I asked Alex to send me the files again, even I asked Jud if he have them and I'm just puzzled by that.

I took other file from my library and I have nothing that's look like that.

At the beginning for me it was white noise used in recording studio to get rid of harmonic distortion but in this area we have only zero-bit data with 0 amplitude.

The only explanation for me this happen in the recording studio,but then that Zero-bit data can carry noise?

[esldude]

You have the files from Alex,you have the software do the test yourself.

I asked Alex to send me the files again, even I asked Jud if he have them and I'm just puzzled by that.

I took other file from my library and I have nothing that's look like that.

 

I don't any longer have the files from Alex. If you would like you can PM me for an email address. Use file mail to send them to me and see if I get the same result. Or perhaps not, Alex may not want me having the files. Again if one file has that noise and the other doesn't, they are not going to checksum the same.

[alfe]

I don't any longer have the files from Alex. If you would like you can PM me for an email address. Use file mail to send them to me and see if I get the same result. Or perhaps not, Alex may not want me having the files. Again if one file has that noise and the other doesn't, they are not going to checksum the same.

 

There is a misunderstanding the two files are identical and both carry the same noise,I'm not trying to prove that Alex is right.

I'm trying to find out if noise can be carried by zero-bit data

[Jabs1542]

If you really have so easily uncovered a means to display differences between files that are bit-identical--really hard for almost all of us to believe, and impossible for some--then you have made the "breakthrough of the year."

 

I believe this has been done, google Audio DiffMaker. And I also believe Mitch (Mitchco) has already run the files in question through DiffMaker and reported no difference.

[alfe]

I believe this has been done, google Audio DiffMaker. And I also believe Mitch (Mitchco) has already run the files in question through DiffMaker and reported no difference.

 

Read my previous posts I already said that they are strictly identical and also reported no difference.

[kumakuma]

Read my previous posts I already said that they are strictly identical and also reported no difference.

 

In other words, you have seen strange noise in both files?

[Jabs1542]

Read my previous posts I already said that they are strictly identical and also reported no difference.

 

Sorry, I was responding to Alex - that's why I quoted his statement.

 

I'll go back into my corner and be quite.

[alfe]

In other words, you have seen strange noise in both files?

 

Yes

[alfe]

Sorry, I was responding to Alex - that's why I quoted his statement.

 

I'll go back into my corner and be quite.

 

Sorry miss that:)

[esldude]

There is a misunderstanding the two files are identical and both carry the same noise,I'm not trying to prove that Alex is right.

I'm trying to find out if noise can be carried by zero-bit data

 

The answer to that is quite simply and unequivocally no. The software you are using would not show anything if that data were zero. The data for that portion of the track is not zero.

 

If you wish, you can isolate that section in Audacity, then export the values of the bits one by one to see what they are. Select those portions, under the Analyze menu choose Sample Data Export. You can choose a web page format and they will export into a browser where the value of each bit will be listed.

[alfe]

The answer to that is quite simply and unequivocally no. The software you are using would not show anything if that data were zero. The data for that portion of the track is not zero.

 

If you wish, you can isolate that section in Audacity, then export the values of the bits one by one to see what they are. Select those portions, under the Analyze menu choose Sample Data Export. You can choose a web page format and they will export into a browser where the value of each bit will be listed.

 

Will do that,thanks

[Jud]

I asked Alex to send me the files again, even I asked Jud if he have them and I'm just puzzled by that.

 

Yes, my apologies, alfe - I told you I'd look for them last night and then did not have time. But you have them now, I guess.

[thesurfingalien]

Will do that,thanks

 

alfe,

 

Can you explain what you mean with zero-bit data?

 

Peter

[esldude]

Will do that,thanks

 

Alfe,

 

Just noticed Sonic Visualizer can also export data. Under the file menu you can export data as either txt or csv files. Either should open in a spreadsheet. Be sure and select only a few seconds to export. Otherwise you export an entire music track and it may take a while as it will be millions of bits. Plus the spreadsheet program will then be very slow with that much data to work with.

 

It numbers the samples, and gives a decimal value in plus or minus. Audacity does offer the option to have it as a decimal value or a db value.

[Superdad]

Can you explain what you mean with zero-bit data?

 

ZERO The Clown bit the data! ;)

[esldude]

ZERO The Clown bit the data! ;)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15828[/ATTACH]

 

Is he sticking out his tongue at us or is that cigar in his mouth?

[Superdad]

Is he sticking out his tongue at us or is that cigar in his mouth?

 

In the first file it is a cigar. In this one it is his tongue.

 

They are bit identical, but this second one was downloaded from my previous post and uploaded back again since I had already deleted it. That's why they look and smell different. Better check your senses if you can't tell the difference.

[RealAudio]

In the first file it is a cigar. In this one it is his tongue.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15829[/ATTACH]

 

They are bit identical, but this second one was downloaded from my previous post and uploaded back again since I had already deleted it. That's why they look and smell different. Better check your senses if you can't tell the difference.

 

Actually, since web sites play around with pictures you post, it you download from a site what you upload you'll find the are not identical.

[alfe]

The file where mastered from tape and one of the stereo head had a small problem that's why the issue in the channel length,the noise at the end is due also to this head but the last line of noise is puzzling me, sent the files to Elsdude to check.

I know that you are going to make fun of me,even I'm also convinced that it's impossible, at least I'm trying to analyse these files instead of bashing Alex.

[thesurfingalien]

The file where mastered from tape and one of the stereo head had a small problem that's why the issue in the channel length,the noise at the end is due also to this head but the last line of noise is puzzling me, sent the files to Elsdude to check.

I know that you are going to make fun of me,even I'm also convinced that it's impossible, at least I'm trying to analyse these files instead of bashing Alex.

 

Hi alfe,

 

Exceptions taken, no one here is bashing Alex; I am sure everyone actually likes him and has great respect for his accomplishments in the field of audio. However, sometimes Alex gets over-sensitive with regards to his claims, the biggest problem being the way of collecting and interpreting results as proof by Alex, and several CA-members not agreeing with his methods and reports of these.

 

While I respect your willingness to investigate the files using analyzing-tools, I doubt that, if there indeed is some kind of "disturbing factor" buried in the files, it will show up in the analysis (as graphical representation). Unless, of course, this "disturbing factor" somehow influences the behavior of software or hardware.

 

 

But in all honesty I, just like other CA-members, am not sure what you are getting at. I really think it is better if you explain to us in your own words what you try to accomplish so we have the opportunity to help. So far I am not getting the relevance between differences between bit-identical files and, for example, differences (and their cause) between a left- and right channel.

 

 

Kind regards,

Peter