Chord Hugo Re-Examined

[wisnon]

Yes, we used Woo WA5 tube headamp and Sennheiser SS headamp. The Platinum stack was upgraded with Galaxy 2 clocks. Transport was a fully tricked out CAPs Server with battery everywhere, PPang v2 USB board and AudioPhile Optimiser in GUI mode.

 

The differences were even bigeer with DSD compared to PCM, but always in favour of the MSB.

[Norton]

Yes, we used Woo WA5 tube headamp and Sennheiser SS headamp. The Platinum stack was upgraded with Galaxy 2 clocks. Transport was a fully tricked out CAPs Server with battery everywhere, PPang v2 USB board and AudioPhile Optimiser in GUI mode.

 

The differences were even bigeer with DSD compared to PCM, but always in favour of the MSB.

 

The fact that two forum members are even debating SQ comparisons between a Hugo and a desktop set-up vastly more expensive is exactly the kind of evidence that led me to buy a Hugo....

[earlyRiser29]

Yes, we used Woo WA5 tube headamp and Sennheiser SS headamp. The Platinum stack was upgraded with Galaxy 2 clocks. Transport was a fully tricked out CAPs Server with battery everywhere, PPang v2 USB board and AudioPhile Optimiser in GUI mode.

 

The differences were even bigeer with DSD compared to PCM, but always in favour of the MSB.

 

I forget to mention that my opinion is based on 16/44 PCM listenings.

 

The system on which I used to listen the MSB stack is there (recorded by myself) :

[wisnon]

The fact that two forum members are even debating SQ comparisons between a Hugo and a desktop set-up vastly more expensive is exactly the kind of evidence that led me to buy a Hugo....

 

There were 4 Dacs there and Hugo was the worst, but also the cheapest by a big margin (so I guess it performed as expected just looking at price). My pal owned all 4.

[ted_b]

There were 4 Dacs there and Hugo was the worst, but also the cheapest by a big margin (so I guess it performed as expected just looking at price). My pal owned all 4.

 

Um...er....yes, I think we know that by now Norman. And it was one visit to your pal. And we also know that Priaptor, who owns an MSB Diamond (or higher?) stack loves his MSB but says the 90%+ less cost Hugo ($2500 vs $35k) gives it a decent run. And thinks it's better than an MSB Analog, and sold his Vega for it. John Darko has it in his League 1 rankings, half the cost of the other DACs in that list. Yadayada.

 

We already know, ad nauseum, what you and I think. Let's let others speak.

[earlyRiser29]

PPang v2 USB board: did you use the USB digital of the Hugo ? What about the 5V ? Supplied by battery I suppose ?

[ted_b]

PPang v2 USB board: did you use the USB digital of the Hugo ? What about the 5V ? Supplied by battery I suppose ?

 

5V to Hugo is non-critical quality. Hugo simply needs to see it to turn on its internal battery section to power the USB internally. Hugo is not susceptible to dirty 5V.

[earlyRiser29]

Yes, I knew this about the role if the 5 V. For the last point, I am not sure. I prefer spdif input on the Hugo but it's a matter of personal tastes.

[ted_b]

Yes, I knew this about the role if the 5 V. For the last point, I am not sure. I prefer spdif input on the Hugo but it's a matter of personal tastes.

? You asked about 5V (which is only a USB issue) and I wanted to clear it up. If you knew 5V quality is not important what was your question about?

[wisnon]

Um...er....yes, I think we know that by now Norman. And it was one visit to your pal. And we also know that Priaptor, who owns an MSB Diamond (or higher?) stack loves his MSB but says the 90%+ less cost Hugo ($2500 vs $35k) gives it a decent run. And thinks it's better than an MSB Analog, and sold his Vega for it. John Darko has it in his League 1 rankings, half the cost of the other DACs in that list. Yadayada.

 

We already know, ad nauseum, what you and I think. Let's let others speak.

 

Heheheh. I DO let others speak!

 

I even allow for people to disagree, even though I dont even think they are in the same league SQ wise….and it was a 6 hour session!

 

Hey, I just heard a Trinity Dac for a Dac or 2 (and the new top-line Lampi Golden Gate Dac), so do you think that counts? Or a prototype Dartzeel LHC-208 for a full dac vs my Chord EX…

 

I do have a decent frame of reference…but I respectfully allow others to have their opinions.

[ted_b]

What did you think of the Trinity? Isn't that Dart an integrated too? Nice!

[wisnon]

What did you think of the Trinity? Isn't that Dart an integrated too? Nice!

They are all lovely Dacs. I had actually heard the Trinity in Warsaw, but with PSA tarnsport and Vivid speakers and tube amps, so too many unknowns to judge.

 

So far I have decent listening experiences with EMM Labs/PBD/Chords/DStream/MSB Platinum/ Goldmund Mimesis/CH Precision D1/ Dart LHC208/ various Lampis including the flagship Golden Gate, and Total Dac.

 

The Dart is an Ethernet streaming Dac/Integrated amp at 200wpc…costing $14K and seriously back-ordered. Will be out in a matter of weeks now. I asked for an update today on timing and am awaiting an answer. It beat the Chord EX handily in PCM, using a LPSU, BUT the EX was fed by PC. The LHC was fed by ethernet cable. There is review in French and AFAIK, the reviewer had $400K reference system and made an off the cuff remark like, all that gear has been rendered useless by that single Dart box!

 

The Trinity was in a total ref system. Kondo amp, Trinity Dac, Genesis, Top Tripoint grounding, Halcyonics vibration control. An Aural feast! Total fun, as you can imagine. BTW, I tried calling you a week ago about something and now I cant remember...

[earlyRiser29]

? You asked about 5V (which is only a USB issue) and I wanted to clear it up. If you knew 5V quality is not important what was your question about?

 

I knew that 5V is used to turn on its internal battery, nothing more.

 

The question was about the conditions used to listen the Hugo.

[Distinctive]

A couple of questions for the 2Qute:

1) Does it come with a volume control feature (or app) or is the output fixed?

2) Based on outcome of 1) - How does the RCA impedance (adapter cable) fit a normal headphone impedance?

 

I guess what I am asking is if it could be used as a headphone amp. also.

[wisnon]

A couple of questions for the 2Qute:

1) Does it come with a volume control feature (or app) or is the output fixed?

2) Based on outcome of 1) - How does the RCA impedance (adapter cable) fit a normal headphone impedance?

 

I guess what I am asking is if it could be used as a headphone amp. also.

 

NOOOOOO!

 

2Qute is simply the Qute HD/EX with the Hugo FPGA board. No headamp, no volume control. It is JUST a Dac.

[ted_b]

Norman is correct; it is a Qute that removes the older 7K tap FPGA and adds the Hugo 26K tap FPGA, adds galvanic USB isolation and doesn't decimate DSD (due to no volume control). It is 3V out (which can be problematic to some preamps).

[Distinctive]

Thanks, wisnon & ted

[wisnon]

Norman is correct; it is a Qute that removes the older 7K tap FPGA and adds the Hugo 26K tap FPGA, adds galvanic USB isolation and doesn't decimate DSD (due to no volume control). It is 3V out (which can be problematic to some preamps).

 

True, but I think the HD/EX is 10K tap length.

 

"Rob Watts carefully looked at off-the-shelf systems for Chord Electronics: industry standard DACs were using around 100 taps and it was evident that this limitation would create severe problems in timing. So many years ago, Watts started experimenting with his own DAC design, originally using gate Arrays that had to be designed then factory-fabricated. Rob Watts, at great lengths, designed a huge chip with a longer tap-length and complex algorithms to try to improve the ability of the filter to reconstruct the original timing. It worked and over the years, as FPGAs became available with exponential potential, Chord Electronics’ DAC designs, such as the QuteHD, were able to offer 10,000 taps (the older Chord DAC64 had 1,000, while a generic, standard, off-the-shelf DAC features 128). The more taps you feature on a DAC, though, the more memory you need, which adds to the cost of production. This may explain why most audio industry DAC chips (even now) have little tap-length capacity today. "

[ted_b]

By the way, I was wrong about the 2Qute having no DSD decimation. It does. Rob ping'd me and I needed to clarify.

 

Norman, yes some listed it as 7k, some 10k. It's likely 10k but that really wasn't my point. The Hugo/2Qute is almost 3X it...that was my point. And as Rob has reported elsewhere the new project DAC goes wayy beyond that.

[wisnon]

By the way, I was wrong about the 2Qute having no DSD decimation. It does. Rob ping'd me and I needed to clarify.

 

Norman, yes some listed it as 7k, some 10k. It's likely 10k but that really wasn't my point. The Hugo/2Qute is almost 3X it...that was my point. And as Rob has reported elsewhere the new project DAC goes wayy beyond that.

Oh, I did agree with your main point…just pointing out the small discrepancy. As an early Qute adopter, I know the specs by heart. LoL

 

 

I also know the new QBD76 will be more like 100K taps…should be very interesting…for PCM.

[ted_b]

I'm looking forward to talking about it next month (I hope).

[ALRAINBOW]

Ted have you done a comparison of the DS and the hugo with pike . Without getting into what's better I did notice a startiling similarity it sound sig. It seems to me they are going in the hugo type sound now. How do you feel. Again not saying what's better just overall sound signature ??

[ted_b]

I feel the opposite. Hugo, in my system, is very warm and tonally rich as hell (but I made sure to drive it correctly; it's an amp too and needs the right impedance match or it bleaches out; my CF preamp now mates perfectly with it at slightly near 2.5V). Pike's Peak (PS Audio DS's new OS) is a detail and microdetail maniac that, again, in my system, makes PCM sound nice but finally shows what DSD can do. I felt the DS, with 1.2.1 and earlier, had a polite boring smoothed DSD. Now it's dynamic and quick and the bass response is quite amazing. But these comarisons are not a/b as the DS sees I2S (or USB with Jplay6 beta) while the Hugo sees SPDIF or USB.

[wisnon]

I'm looking forward to talking about it next month (I hope).

Excellent. That will be very interesting, as for me it should be a definite step up in SQ.

 

Apart from that, I am waiting on AL to say what he thinks about his HeadDac which he will get soon.

[ALRAINBOW]

Ted thanks for the quick detailed answer for me I have tried only one system and they both seem to Brite but he DS is beyond that. Synergy is important but with my hd800 cans direct it's till to high pitched for me. Now I have a have an if I dsd micro it s too warm with any amp I tried. Like way to warm. But direct its ok

It does dsd very nice but it's pcm is good but seems to be better with some tracks than others

Even resolutions too. Odd situation. I do think it like the hugo lacks a real pre output and this does make it more difficult to be happy. Warm is not what I get out if the hugo. So we have different views but I now know why. I did try it with three Amps.

Woo wa 5.

Hdvd800

And my lampi as an Aanalog input. They are about the same with all. By agin synergy rules we both know this. The pike is the first one I can say I really like but it's also not a finished work if you ask me.

Have you tried the beta bridge firmware 120 it's a little less detailed with the usb anyway. Making it s bit better.

Let me know if you want it

I can email you it.

A gain thanks for the posting and replies love your precision answers so much better than my muddy ones Hahhaaha.

Al