Chord Hugo Re-Examined

[wisnon]

Ted,

 

The answer is on headfi, given by Rob indirectly, in ananswer to how input slection is done on the 2Qute.. I quickly picked up on it.

 

Recall that the HD and EX uses a logical heirarchy to determine which input would play if several are connected, I think BNC to USB to Toslink, or whatever? Well the 2 Qute has a PHYSICAL selector button on the back so ther is NOTHING from the earlier series that remains. The top has a different engraving. The unibody base now need a precise hole dilled in the back for the input selector button and of course the board is totally swapped out.

 

I guess there was no space on the Spartan6 to introduce the hierarchical selecting logic?

 

The sell on an buy back logic works well for the US and perhaps the UK, but on the Continent here is a drag to try and sell stuff. There is no Audiogon here and the used market is much less developed. Europeans also tend to buy and hold a lot longer than Americans who revel in the buy and try infrastructure supported there.

 

I really want to hear what you think when you get a 2Qute on your SR3 and compare to a classic Hugo and a TT. For the money I am sure the 2Qute will shine, but in absolute terms, I think it will be a straight "gunfight" between the Super Capped TT and the Hynes powered 2 Qute.

[ted_b]

Yes the input switch is on the back; never said it wasn't (frankly never discussed it, so not sure who your "Ted the answer is on headfi" is in response to ). I have a dozen pics of the 2Qute from the press kit. Here is back panel. Switch is center left.

[jtwrace]

I'm pretty sure that our ted_b has already clarified with Chord that a Hynes power supply on the 2Qute would not be of benefit.

[ted_b]

I'm pretty sure that our ted_b has already clarified with Chord that a Hynes power supply on the 2Qute would not be of benefit.

 

Well, yeah, but that's what Rob said about the others, too. Clearly the EX improved less with the Hynes than the HD did, so they are improving the wall wart supply each time, but as I said in another post, I am going to challenge Rob. I certainly hope it doesn't require the investment, but I will be pleasantly surpised.

[jtwrace]

Well, yeah, but that's what Rob said about the others, too. Clearly the EX improved less with the Hynes than the HD did, so they are improving the wall wart supply each time, but as I said in another post, I am going to challenge Rob. I certainly hope it doesn't require the investment, but I will be pleasantly surpised.

 

Gotcha. Also the same person that sold he sold 10k too. LOL.

[ted_b]

Sold 10K too? I don't follow.

[jtwrace]

Sold 10K too? I don't follow.

 

The owner of Chord said he has sold over 10k Qute. I highly doubt that.

[ted_b]

Hmmm..dunno. Rob Watts doesn't work at Chord; he is a 3rd party consultant that invented and designed the DACs since early days. His challenge to me was technical, not really sales. I will ask John (Franks, CEO) if there are truly 10K Qutes out there.

[Hiro]

No idea about DSD256.

 

I read one interview with Rob Watts from Chord in which he was expressing his disappointment that DSD 256fs hadn't been chosen for SACD. Strangely, it looks like his DACs still can't handle the format even today, although it has become a reality, and first DSD256 downloads are now being released.

 

If the TT has volume control than it would still decimate DSD.

 

Maybe the FPGA is not powerful enough to accommodate a dedicated DSD processor for volume control running at native DSD rates?

[ALRAINBOW]

Is finally nice to read what I heard from the first day I owned the Hugo. It's DSd is just sub par especially at its price range. What bothers me now is all statements of this DSd being a world best device . Why now did it take that long to become what it was from the first min and begging of me and others a bit bashed for saying it.

Reg the fpga neither of the two fpga devices i own and paid for do DSd well. As I do not know why and I really do not understand just what goes on except what reaches my brain. A 500 dac sounds much better in DSd. Rob watts replyed to me Ina post on headfi of how he does not care about DSd nor its starting point being analog . The post is on headfi or it was. It may have been removed due to the advertising machine on headfi.

He felt that analog was not dynamic and lacked real impact of low end details. He went on for awhile. My point is he clearly does not like DSd so why would he care how it sounds . But what does bother me more than his stand point as a designer . Is the constant crap from the hugo is great machine. It's about 6 to 10 horn blowers who do know better but palute the web with praise . And now that is about to change how can this be.

Anyway please just read and do not reply to my post I will not answer anyone .

And I used spell check hope this helps the linguistly challedged readers .

al

[wisnon]

Yes the input switch is on the back; never said it wasn't (frankly never discussed it, so not sure who your "Ted the answer is on headfi" is in response to ). I have a dozen pics of the 2Qute from the press kit. Here is back panel. Switch is center left.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16505[/ATTACH]

 

 

So if there is a HARDware change to the casework, how was this update program going to work? It would mean either drilling new precision holes in the chassis or junking the alum chassis altogether.

 

I said nothing about you mentioning a button, I said as soon as Rob posted the answer on Headfi, the Upgrade program was DoA! Most people had no idea about an input button and so thought in vain that an update program was feasible.

 

I thought this was obvious from my post. My bad if it was not.

[wisnon]

Well, yeah, but that's what Rob said about the others, too. Clearly the EX improved less with the Hynes than the HD did, so they are improving the wall wart supply each time, but as I said in another post, I am going to challenge Rob. I certainly hope it doesn't require the investment, but I will be pleasantly surpised.

 

On the contrary, he said it the improved filtering on the 2Qute and new regulation scheme that make the difference. Wallwart is still generic nonsense.

 

Everyone is taking it as gospel, but I suspend judgement until it gets out in the wild and as I said, I look fwd to your report with the SR3.

 

"OK, a bit of confusion here - I have not designed a better wall wart, I have just put much more RF filtering and regulation into 2 Qute, so that the now 2 Qute is now completely insensitive to the mains power. So adding a better PSU has now no SQ improvements."

[Hiro]

On the contrary, he said it the improved filtering on the 2Qute and new regulators that make the difference. Wallwart is still generic nonsense.

 

Please don't tell me that Chord TT Hugo with its 5k USD price tag will also be sold with this type of "psu."

[wisnon]

From what I can see, Chord TT will be just like regular Hugo, but with a bank of super-capacitors.

Essentially battery based.

 

I prefer quality LPSU to battery, but that is just me...

[ALRAINBOW]

I prefere better sound. Weather the external psu is better or not.

As digital audio reproduction improves it does so from a complex myriad of areas. To just look at one is not prudent. But if the man says the wall wort no longer matters then it must not. Better filtering inside can be fine. Paul pang has regulation and caps after his batteries. He feels it's needed. All we can do is listen to the end product and some cAn measure as we'll but listening to me is always better than hunting down specs

Al

[ted_b]

So if there is a HARDware change to the casework, how was this update program going to work? It would mean either drilling new precision holes in the chassis or junking the alum chassis altogether.

 

I said nothing about you mentioning a button, I said as soon as Rob posted the answer on Headfi, the Upgrade program was DoA! Most people had no idea about an input button and so thought in vain that an update program was feasible.

 

I thought this was obvious from my post. My bad if it was not.

 

No problem..I was confused by "Ted, the answer is on headfi" when I wasn't aware of the question I asked. So I responded as if you were talking to me, Ted.

 

The trade-in program was always going to produce a hybrid, as I stated a few times earlier. They were going to replace everything (including the back panel) except for the remaining five sides of the chassis. The 2Qute logo wouldn't have been there, and resale would have been affected. The math said "sell then buy".

 

The Hugo TT will have a tough value sell, for sure, but it is indeed more than a Hugo with supercapacitors. It also includes galvanic isolation of the USB, a remote that controls the digital volume (i.e a digital preamp of sorts), and full size connectors, for starters.

 

When I said wall wart supply I meant "internal power supply" that ends in a wall wart. Yes, Rob has not produced a better wall wart, just a better set of power filtered dc.. hence no need to replace the wall wart with linear power. We'll see.

[Glisse]

...

 

The Hugo TT will have a tough value sell, for sure, but it is indeed more than a Hugo with supercapacitors. It also includes galvanic isolation of the USB, a remote that controls the digital volume (i.e a digital preamp of sorts), and full size connectors, for starters.

 

When I said wall wart supply I meant "internal power supply" that ends in a wall wart. Yes, Rob has not produced a better wall wart, just a better set of power filtered dc.. hence no need to replace the wall wart with linear power. We'll see.

 

I would think the performance of the Hugo TT relative to the QBD might be more relevant in determining whether the Hugo TT could be regarded as a tough sell in value terms. They do seem to be fragmenting their product ranges rather than consolidating them.

 

Whilst additional filtering in a component might minimise the impact on that component from a cheap and noisy SMPS, that same SMPS will still inject HF noise on the AC line which may impact on every other component used in the system.

 

Speaking of which, as per your reference in post 308, Rob Watts is a consultant to Chord Electronics: specifically in the area of digital signal processing. Audio circuit design, and most certainly power supply design, is a specific expertise of Chord Electronics (John Franks) rather than Rob Watts. The company was founded on the back of Franks' power supply design work as an aerospace engineer.

 

So if you are going to question John on how many Qutes they have sold, you might also take the opportunity to ask him about the role of power supplies in the various levels of Chord DACs. It could be very interesting.

[ted_b]

Glisse, since you quoted me I need to say that I have never questioned John Franks on how many Qutes they have sold (his 10k comments were first about his first 15 years of DACs with the Dac 64, see Kramer's Interview in April 2014; then at CES he dropped the 10k number again, regarding Hugo sales...not sure he ever quantified Qute sales specifically); that was someone else. When I challenged Rob (gentleman's bet more like it) that is because he and I have become friends and I personally told him at CES I would test it out (2Qute internal ps vs my Hynes liinear ps, as per my HD and EX reviews). He is indeed the one who designed the filters in the 2Qute ps area and is commenting on no need for external linear, despite his resume being digital only work for Chord.

[Glisse]

Glisse, since you quoted me I need to say that I have never questioned John Franks on how many Qutes they have sold (his 10k comments were first about his first 15 years of DACs with the Dac 64, see Kramer's Interview in April 2014; then at CES he dropped the 10k number again, regarding Hugo sales...not sure he ever quantified Qute sales specifically); that was someone else. When I challenged Rob (gentleman's bet more like it) that is because he and I have become friends and I personally told him at CES I would test it out (2Qute internal ps vs my Hynes liinear ps, as per my HD and EX reviews). He is indeed the one who designed the filters in the 2Qute ps area and is commenting on no need for external linear, despite his resume being digital only work for Chord.

 

ted_b,

 

Post number 308, attributed to a ted_b:

 

Hmmm..dunno. Rob Watts doesn't work at Chord; he is a 3rd party consultant that invented and designed the DACs since early days. His challenge to me was technical, not really sales. I will ask John (Franks, CEO) if there are truly 10K Qutes out there.

Perhaps there are 2 ted-b's?

 

Point being, if you "will ask John" something, it would be interesting to have some input on power design influence on 2Qute/Hugo/Hugo TT, QBD76 performance. From an audio engineer that has significant experience in power supply design.

That would be a useful addition to the constructive contributions that can be found amongst the noise in this thread. Personally, I don't care how many Qutes Chord may have sold

[ted_b]

What exactly do you want me to ask him about power design? If he's involved?

 

Also, not trying to be pedantic, but me asking him about his 10K numbers as a favor is not, in my mind, "me questioning John"...which I read as me challenging or doubting him. I could care less. It wasn't me questioning John's numbers. I guess I didn't make that clear in my last post. Sorry for the confusion. Again, I have never read where he said they've sold 10,000 Qutes so not sure where Jason got those numbers. Selling 10,000 Hugos (which John did say in more than one article) though, is more impressive given that Qutes have been around longer, are less expensive, and there are two models. Again, I'll ask.

[wisnon]

I would think the performance of the Hugo TT relative to the QBD might be more relevant in determining whether the Hugo TT could be regarded as a tough sell in value terms. They do seem to be fragmenting their product ranges rather than consolidating them.

 

 

Glisse, In addition everyone knows that the post-Hugo FPGA QBD is only months away, so why rush to the TT when the big upgrade will soon be realized?

 

TED, there is no Qute back panel though, its an alum bowl with a top (whic says Qute, not 2Qute). Thus with a new board and a new bowl, only the top could be salvaged in an upgrade, so really its a new Dac with the WRONG cover (top). As you said...limited resale value and maximum upgrade cost, ie retail minus the cost of the replacement cover. LoL

 

Yes Ted, correct about the TT, you get a remote and galvaic isol, though for USB packetized data, we know this is not enuff to prevent noise from passing over from the transport.

[wisnon]

Glisse, since you quoted me I need to say that I have never questioned John Franks on how many Qutes they have sold (his 10k comments were first about his first 15 years of DACs with the Dac 64, see Kramer's Interview in April 2014; then at CES he dropped the 10k number again, regarding Hugo sales...not sure he ever quantified Qute sales specifically); that was someone else. When I challenged Rob (gentleman's bet more like it) that is because he and I have become friends and I personally told him at CES I would test it out (2Qute internal ps vs my Hynes liinear ps, as per my HD and EX reviews). He is indeed the one who designed the filters in the 2Qute ps area and is commenting on no need for external linear, despite his resume being digital only work for Chord.

 

Rob is a specialist on SMPS design and is a believer of them when well implemented. I think he designed the QBD SMPS.

[wisnon]

Ted and Glisse,

 

No need to be at loggarheads its Jason who did a typo in post 307, he meant to say Hugo as it was a follow on from posts 277 and 278!

 

It was always HUGO, not Qute!

[ted_b]

Although I have knowledge of the QBD replacement I'm sworn not to talk about it. But, budget for the TT and budget for the reference level DAC (QBD replacement) are two different things all together. I announced that it will be ready for Munich (mid-May), and they are still standing by that. I have gifted Rob some natively recorded DSD music so he has some gems to listen to as he finalizes the DSD section.

 

Norman, Rob drew for me, on my legal pad, a schematic of the galvanic isolation. It is quite clever and supposedly does block the noise quite effectively (it's as if the noise goes to a sink, after the USB chip, then USB is connected back to the FPGA via optical..I could be wrong). It is several picofarads of isolation.

 

Jason did very specifically say "Qute" (after he doubted the Hugo numbers as well in a separately written post...he doesn't like Chord I think ), but whatever. He's allowed. This is becoming deflategate! I need to ping those guys on my review samples so I will ask John about all numbers.

[wisnon]

Ted, that indeed does sound clever. If you can get more details on the isolation, that would be great. No secret I am not a big Hugo fan, but I am a fan of Rob and his skills (plus he is a genuinely nice fellow). Qute shows good chops at that price point..

 

HOPEFULLY, they can crack the DSD code too, as that is their big failing so far. Chord is better with PCM to me. I like having them in the game though, as they create competition to drive things forward for us all.

 

There was a public announcement that QBD would be ready for Munich, so there will be people who will want to stretch the budget for that. I know the QBD will be almost double TT price, but still, Rob publicly hinted that it will be next gen tap length stuff.