Low profile Windows XP pc with Lynx audio card

[vortecjr]

Hi team

I found an older Dell tower PC with XP. The specs on it are pretty boring, but I am doing this for kicks on the cheap. Its over 2Ghz with something like 512Mb of ram. I might have some extra ram someplace and might boost it up. At first glance the specs of the lynxs AES card are minimal. You can use XP and you need 256Mb of ram. I plan to use Foobar2000 and its computer requirements says same as os on computer. So XP is about 300Mhz and with 128Mb of ram. This all seems very slow, but lets see.

 

Yesterday, I re-installed xp. The installation was ultra low profile stripped down to 500Md. The only programs installed were paint and calculator....heheheh. No MS player and no internet....nothing barebone. I checked the performance via alt control delete and only 13 apps were running most of them network related. I then checked services and stopped and made manual some bs stuff like telehony and other. Its the quickest boot time I have ever seen. Had some problem with the network....it was a driver missing. The vga to a 52" flat screen is also quite nice and dont think I would ever need HDMI. I then installed Foobar2000 and made it part of the startup. Direct boot to foobar2000 is very fast. I made the usual setup tweaks per the benchmarkmedia wiki page and played some music over the network here via headphones. So far so good. I did notice it does not like to multitask while playing and did not like to display the osciliscope while playing....I took it off to be safe. I thinks it needs more ram!

 

Next step I think is to source a Lynks AES 16. I have a friend who is saving up for the Berkeley and he has agreed to buy the card at cost later if I help him with the setup. What a pal....I would have helped him anyways

 

Yes I plan to convert as safe as possible from AES to SPDIF. Audio_ELF has posted that the Lynxs website says not to due this, but I actually spoke to then a few months back and they said no problem with the Canera inline adapter. I looked around for the Canera inline adapter and really dont care for it. I like as most of you know the passive Proaudio inline adapter. Its the XLR female with level adjustment 0,5 Vss / 75 ohms (SPDIF), model SAP XF BF: Ill source this as well.

 

http://proaudio.uk.com/prod_dip.htm

 

$$ So far the cost has been $29.00 for the vga cable $$

 

Any comments so far?

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

I know it's a resources hog, but you either need to NEVER connect the computer to the internet or install anti-virus.

 

An interesting comparison might be if you could manage to compare the Lynx AES16 card to an E-Mu 1010 card as you are going into SPDIF - the EMu 1010 is pure digital in/out (SPDIF and TosLink at up to 24/192) and costs £129 as opposed to £600. Both claim low jitter which should work well into your Rotel processor.

 

Just a thought ... maybe someone has experience of this card? It seams like a real bargain (it's the PCI digital interface card part of the EMu 1212 and 1616M packages).

 

Eloise

 

[cfmsp]

 

Do you plan to do anything about the difference in data formats - AES/EBU versus S/PDIF?

Eloise pointed this out in a separate thread.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES3

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

 

clay

 

[vortecjr]

I hate those programs..... It does not have explorer, but its networked and bugs seem to fly around systems. The insallation is cake and really it only really has foobar so I guess I can reboot it.

 

When I give the card to my friend I would consider the emu 1010. I think its offered as an upgrade though. Can you purchase it alone? I did ask Berkeley about the emu 1212m and they told me that it has someting like 35 times more jitter then the lynks card....20ps vs 700ps. Again not sure what difference it would make if the dac can handle it, but I dont know if it could handle it! Its got to sound better than my magic box....hehehe. See I can take some heat!

 

I think the 1212 is stand alone but you can add the breakout box. The 1010 comes with the breakout box and is also sold alone as an upgrade. My fear with a direct buy of the 1010 is you dont get any software. I guess all this would need to be explored.

 

I read that the emu products you need to change the sample rate via software though...yuck! Anyone know for sure?

 

[vortecjr]

Lets see if it will play then look into it. I found an active unit that is suppose to fix anything, but dont want another device in the chain. At that point I would use another card. It should work though. I explained the project to both lynxs and proaudio and they said its done all the time in recording studios. I admit that thay have different gear (pro) and it might be better suited for the task. Crossing my fingers.

I do remember reading here one guy just making a direct cable abapter and it working for him. It really bugged me and I post against the idea and sent the above links, but didnt keep track of his post and don't remember what gear it was. I am pretty sure it was home stuff not pro. I also have to think it could be hit or miss with different gear home or pro. Ill try to dig it up that post and link it here for reference.

 

Updated: Chris the search engine is realy good!

This is the post, but dont have time to read it...late for work!

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-PS-Audio-DAC-III

 

[Audio_ELF]

The EMu 1010 is listed (on Creative Lab's UK shop anyway) as a stand alone product, but actually for £20 more you can have the 1212 with its analogue I/O card and bundled software so it's probably worth that. Up from there in the range is the 1616 (and 1616M) which combine the 1010PCI card with a breakout box / pre-amplifier / ADC.

 

If the drivers for the 1010 are like the ones with the 4040USB were reported, they follow sample rate when using ASIO, but not when using KS or DirectSound.

 

Is the jitter difference between 35ps and 200ps going to be noticeable - you can't really say until you get it with the DAC you intend to use it with. My gut feeling is that no it won't affect the sound quality, but all that matters is if YOU notice a difference which is difficult to know without buying both I know.

 

Another alternative card that seams well likes for I/O is the ESI @Julia card (the Julia only supports 24/192 with co-ax not with Toslink). While the Lynx card is undoubtably good, it does seam rather an overkill for many situations and the money could be spent differently. The Lynx is one of a very few products that will support AES/EBU and will support dial wire 24/192 so if this is important then the Lynx is important. For lesser mortals with SPDIF only DACs the alternatives maybe make more sense.

 

Eloise

 

[vortecjr]

You pushed my sensability button.

I was in the emu site (i like the pictures better) and did not see the 1010 sold alone. Lets go with the 1010. Its cheaper and direct sdpif input at 24/192.

 

So:

This is my reference point - My Rotel RDV-1092 in dvd-audio mode with analog rca to the proccessor in bypass mode with analog direct to the amp (only line level control). The dvd sounds really nice and I am happy with it as the reference point.

 

The test - Kent Poons #4 converted from 24/192 in original aiff to 24/192 dvd-audio with dvd-solo vs the original 24/192 aiff files played back via foobar2k. As for the drivers....I think I read they are not the same as the 4040USB. Need help desiding on the ASIO or KS or DirectSound. I guess an e-mail to emu is also in order. I prefer to have it follow the player at any cost!

 

The status

Phase 1 - Build a simple machine....done

Phase 2 - Get info on driver....pending

Phase 3 - Order card....pending phase 2

Phase 4 - Test....way pending

Phase 5 - Hope my friend has lynxs card by then

 

 

 

 

 

[vortecjr]

I sent emu an email regarding the drivers on the 1010. Nothing back so far. I called the creative lab guys and they are a bunch of dodo heads. I then sat down for a while and read the manual. As you know the 1010 only does 24/96 via the spdif rca....says the higher stuff is disabled. The adat and optical are 24/192 switchable. I could almost live with the optical as it would isolate the signal from the computer. However, the emu manual says that you would need to software switch the sample rates as they come in pairs 44/48 or 88/92 or 176/192. The is a deal killer for me:)

I dont really know if ASIO or DirectSound will bypass their software and fix the problem. I would like to skip the software all together.

Any thoughts??

 

[vortecjr]

Per EMU

"The only way to change sample rate with the E-MU 1616/1616M is by loading an appropriate PatchMix session at the desired sample rate. Best audio performance is obtained when using our ASIO drivers"

 

I had to send them a second e-mail to get the final word on this. With poor support (slow e-mail type) and this setting issue (reminds me of apple/itunes deal) I think its time to re-think the card!

 

Eloise any idea if the ESI @Julia card has the same issue as the emu?

 

[Synfreak]

Hi1

 

The ESI Juli@ card works flawless with ASIO in Foobar2000, but you might consider in getting a custom cable made for your use, because it sports these mini-DIN socket for SPDIF and MIDI connections.

 

Cheers

Harald

 

[vortecjr]

Thanks for the info.... have you had any problems with Foobar2000 and the smaple rate switching issue some have talked about?

 

Team, I am actually thinking of the Lynx L22 card. According to the manual it can follow the sample rate of the player so its a step in the right direction. It has 2 analog and 2 spdif outputs. The spdif is only for up 24/96 though, but the analog goes up to 200khz. They say the analog is variable....what ever that means. I would hook up both the analog (in bypass mode to my processor so acts like a pre-amp only) and the spdif as usual for kicks. Its an expensive pro card, but the computer was near cost free:) If this sounds as expected then I have a small case from a failed project that looks like pro gear to drop in a real motherboard and the card.

 

Any thoughts on the Lynx L22 card?

 

[Synfreak]

Hi!

 

I haven`t had any problems with the Juli@, nor with my (currently used) RME HDSP9632 card.

They both followed the samplingrate just fine, and I`ve got plenty different material in Foobar (44,1, 48, 88,2 and 96 khz - 16 and 24 bit).

 

BUT, I could not comment on eventually arising "sync-probs" in conjunction with a (dedicated) DAC, as I have used the card(s) "only" with their analogue outputs - at least up to now.

 

The Lynx seem to be a real high-class card, so I think that you can´t do wrong with getting one.

 

Cheers

Harald

 

[vortecjr]

The RME looks pretty cool and is full 192 in analog and spdif...very nice! This I would also consider along with the Lynx L22. The EMU is out for sure, because I don’t want to have to tell it what sample rate every time! I would also use the RME in analog to keep things as simple as possible. I also like the headphone option. Can you give me a rating from one to ten for the Julie vs the RME in analog? Also, I’m confused about the cables it comes with. Can you tell me more about the cables the RME comes with? I don’t care for the special cables on the Julie, but d-sub is ok.

Thank you in advance!

Also, it’s not really a sync issue, but the Foobar2000 looses its ASIO settings when switching higher sample rates like 176.4 and 192.

 

[Synfreak]

Hello "vortecjr"!

 

The RME is - from a sonic point of view - to me much better as the Juli@, but it also has problems using ASIO in Foobar!

Its driver switches the available ADAT channels in and out, just to meet the used samplingrate (it allows to use the ADAT interface for higher samplingrates, but with half of the available channels). So the ASIO-plugin in Foobar allways spit out an error massage ...

It works fine with WDM/DS (I´m using Windows XP), and it is not a problem for my use, so I keep it. The added (and separetely controlable) headphone output is very handy too. All the connections on the RME are made thru D-Sub connectors (Adapters for non-symmetric use are supplied). So some soldering might be needed to get rid of these cable-looms ... (which is what I´ve done for my use).

 

The "channel-number-switching-problem" might be no üproblem, if you use MediaMonkey or JRiver.

 

The Juli@ (and - as far as I could test it - the Marian MARC2) work fine with ASIO under Foobar, but they don`t reach the sonic potential of the RME (at least to my ears).

 

So, if you want to get a "qhick`n`dirty" solution, get the Juli@. If you are aware of the RME-ASIO problem, and you are willing to sort it out, get the RME.

 

Cheers

Harald

 

[vortecjr]

Sounds like we have two possible contenders in the RME and the Lynx. I feel we have the same goal in a XP machine with a simple player like Foobar2000 and good sonic quality. I appreciate you taking the time to post your comments!

 

Update:

After much soul searching I desided on the Lynx 22 card. Its nothing againt the RME card as I am sure its also very good. I showed the two cards to my audio buddy and in order to keep my card and his future card in the Lynx family I desided on this route. This way we can compare notes and trouble shoot the software and so on. He may end up with the L22 or the AES 16 not sure for now. Also, I really like the tech support of Lynx. I have called them before and they are very cool. The 192 spdif would have been great, but the analog out of the L22 should exceed my needs. As for the head phone out, I have a simple set up in the back room for posting time:)

 

I will be out for a about two weeks and the card should be here by then. I'll test and post my findings....lets hope for the best as the pc is a bit of a clunker....hehehe.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Im in the middle of reviewing a couple ASUS audio cards and so far so good. Much cheaper than many pro cards.

 

[vortecjr]

Thanks Chris for the info, but I settled on the Lynx L22 pci audio card. I installed the card and drivers in the tower and so far so good. Looks like it came with the latest drivers.....pretty cool. I set up xp and foobar as usual and installed the ASIO plugin. I set the Lynx software to spdif output and set it for digtital out on card one for left and right channel.

 

I ran both direct sound and ASIO output with Foobar and both gave me problems with switching between different sample rates. I have to say, I expected this from reading posts on the issue, but still sad it was doing it to me....hehehehe

 

I then switched to mediamonkey with the ASIO drive and could only get the ASIO driver provided by Chris in another post to work. Thanks Chris! Still some issues switching between different sample rates.

I called Lynx tech support (yes they picked up and this is why I didnt mind paying some extra cash for the card). We ran digital output into the digital input and confirmed that the card was ok. Don't count on the output display on media monkey to tell you its playing. With the test and the Lynx software you can rule out some issues straight away. Anyway, it seems the issue is with my Rotel processor keeping up with the switching back and forth. After some additional chat with tech support, we conclude that analog out is the way to go. Per Lynxs the analog outputs are awesome and sound be better then most 5k converters. I dont have a 5k converter and off to find an adapter I go. I found two balanced to unbalanced converters at Guitar Center and made the changes in the Lynxs software. Analog into the processor and processor in bypass mode (story of my life).

 

Why did I by a processor....oh yeah for surround

 

Of course this analog business fixes everthing! Both Foobar and Media Monkey play great with ASIO output. I can follow the sample rate in the Lynx software as I loose this display on the processor in analog bypass mode.

 

I have to tell you the interface with the tv and Media Monkey is winning out over Foobar though and I was really leaning toward Foobar. I tried J-River for a few minutes and I cant hack that program....I just don't like it and chucked it!

 

The sound: I have to tell you my first impression with digital and analog output is that is something special and that it is very good. I am going to due a full a/b test later this week against my cd/dvd-audio player with my audio buddy and will post the results. I have also been having some digital sync issues (loosing a few seconds at the start of some tracks) with the Rotel processor and that is gone with the digital output of the card. Pretty cool as it leans to a possible cleaner digital signal as the reason for the improvement.

 

The tower is hold its own, but does not like me doing much else at the same time as playback. Not that there is much else to run on the pc....heheheh.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi JR - Have you tried the wave_out plugin with MediaMonkey? I use it more than the ASIO plugin. Auto sample rate switching works great.

 

[faberryman]

I am having trouble making sense of the sample rate specification on the EMU 1010:

 

Synchronization

 

Internal crystal sync at 44.1, 48, 96, 192kHz

External sample rate sync via

- ADAT (44.1 - 192kHz)

- S/PDIF (opt. or coax 44.1 - 96kHz)

 

Does this mean playback of audio files at 88.2 and 176.2 frrom the hard disk is not possible?

 

[vortecjr]

I like to look at the manuals for the specs. The webpage may not always paint the complete picture.

 

The manual for the 1212 and 1212m is here at:

http://www.emu.com/support/files/download2.asp?Centric=761&Platform=1

 

I can't find the manual for the 1010, but the spec for the 1010 is here:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=142&subcategory=191&product=15527&nav=introduction

 

The number of channels has something to due with the highest rate. In most cases the 2 channel supports the hightest rates.

 

Also, you should know that you will need to select the playback rate in the emu software each time you change it during playback.

 

[vortecjr]

Ok, I tried all three outs (ds, asio and wav) in MM and they all due the same thing. I really think it has to due with the processor not liking the switch from 44.1 to 96khz! Its not such a big deal as the card only only goes up to 96khz in digital out. I always intended to use the analog. I just started with the digital, because the unit did not have a balanced to unbalanced adapter.

 

[vortecjr]

Team, I just bought and installed the parts for my new music server based on the results of the prototype exceeding my expectations. I ended up with the following:

1. Intel Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

2. Intel Core 2 Duo

3. CORSAIR 4GB

4. Ultra slim SILVERSTONE Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

5. 2.5" 80GB HDD "spinning type" for now:)

6. Sony optical, but not installed. I had some clearence issues and need some 90 degree sata connectors to finish it. I was able to boot with external optical....thank god!

7. Lynx L22 card with analog out as you may know.

8. Windows XP PRO SP2. My choice with nothing but a hand full of programs installed. You know Media Monkey, Lynx Mixer and Smart Pix Manager for pics and home video.

 

OK, now the question of the day: Does anyone have some rules of thumb for memory settings either vertual in windows or anything in media monkey regarding memory buffers and so on.

 

 

[faberryman]

How did you mount the Lynx L22 card is your low-profile case?

 

[vortecjr]

This was a case I had from another project, it does not actually mount very well. The case comes with a 90 adapter. However, there is a conflict with a capacitor on the board and the adapter and if you tighten everything up it puts presssure on the board. For the test I drilled the cross support, added a washer and some other tweaks. I did not want to mess up the board:)