HQ Player

[dericchan1]

3 minutes ago, sworksone said:

Same experience here and not something I understand as I thought Roon was simply directing the signal to HQPlayer in this configuration, but the sound quality difference is not subtle.   

That's what I thought when I use jriver for local content and just setting hqplayer as the wasapi exclusive mode driver, can't compare with HQP client.

 

As I mentioned, the closest in terms of sound quality is with jplay ios upnp to HQP embedded.

[sskom]

3 minutes ago, sworksone said:

I thought Roon was simply directing the signal to HQPlayer in this configuration, but the sound quality difference is not subtle.   

Yes! But why? There must be some technical explanation for this. Do you think it makes sense to ask Roon support? As they say:

"...HQPlayer is an advanced, up-sampling media player. It offers some of the best software-based up-sampling and sigma-delta processing available on the market today...
...HQPlayer owns the final connection to the device, and Roon is just passing along a stream of bits from your media files. This allows you to enjoy the processing benefits of HQPlayer and the library management capabilities of Roon at the same time."

[OzarkMtn]

@Miska For the microRendu, what HQPlayer Network Audio Daemon (NAA) version of yours should I use? I haven't seen a 5.0 version for the cubox/rendu. The SonicOrbiter has the 5.0 version.

Thanks for any guidance.

[rjanderjr]

7 minutes ago, sskom said:

Yes! But why? There must be some technical explanation for this.

That would have to come from Miska.  Here is my non-technical guess.  I have worked for years to do as little digital processing as possible.  Every time I add a layer, sound quality dips.  The same is true on the analog end so I do not use any pre-amp or volume control in the analog chain.  I use HQP for volume control.  HQP Client is not serving up music to HQP Desktop.  It is controlling HQP Desktop.  So there is no serving up of music with HQP Client as there is with Roon.  This means there is less going on and in the high end, less is more.  "Nothing between you and the music."

[Schafheide]

@Miska Any chance you could elaborate on the sonic differences between the IIR and FIR families of SDM Integrators ?

TIA.

[fgribas]

Streaming Roon to HQP will use RAAT as an intermediate step. This degrades the sound, unfortunately. It's a shame, cause Roon UI is great and I already spent lots of money on Roon lifetime.

 

But now I'm using JPLAY IOS to HQP Embedded, it sounds great! By using JPLAY,  all the streaming is done directly from tidal/qobuz servers to HQP. JPLAY IOS don't stream audio to HQP. It only tells HQP "hey, play this flac file from qobuz/tidal". HQP Client does the same. If you check HQP logs, you will see that using both JPLAY/HQPClient tells HQP to stream the flac file from treaming servers.

 

And I must say, JPLAY IOS interface is very nice. Any UPnP client will work the same way, but JPLAY IOS has the best UI to me, and also sound better to my ears. Using the highest value (12000) in the "Update Time" setting of JPLAY IOS is said to result in a better sound, even if in theory it's hard to make much sense. I agree with the uplift.

 

Well, if you need really need to use Roon, try setting the raatserver process a high or real-time priority. Some folks don't recommend setting real-time priority to a process, but it gives a good bump in sound quality, and I always used it.

[sworksone]

Thanks @dericchan1 and @fgribas - will try Jplay with HQPlayer and report back.

[bogi]

18 minutes ago, fgribas said:

Streaming Roon to HQP will use RAAT as an intermediate step.

 

I never heard about RAAT being used between Roon and HQPlayer. What's your source of information?

[sskom]

Interesting discussion here

Playing Roon over RAAT - Does the server matter for SQ?

[dericchan1]

30 minutes ago, sworksone said:

Thanks @dericchan1 and @fgribas - will try Jplay with HQPlayer and report back.

I can wholeheartedly recommend jplay iOS, give it a try with their 14day trial. It’s super easy to set up and the UI is snappy, everything is rock solid. Going from jplay iOS to embedded sounds great!!

[sworksone]

A couple of stumbling blocks already.  Is it not possible to use Jplay with HQPlayer Desktop - only Embedded?  Also can’t access local library only Tidal / Qobuz?  The latter isn’t a deal breaker for me however the first is an issue with my current set-up.

 

@Miska Any plans to add the ability to create and edit combined local library and Qobuz playlists within Client?  I’ve been using Client more and more lately for the amazing sound quality (and thank you so much for the iOS app) and now that I’m getting used to it, this is the only thing I feel I’m really missing.  There are a few other items that would be a nice to have (song lyrics / ability to search Qobuz and local library simultaneously / etc) but I keep going back to Roon primarily due to the lack of playlist creation / editing in Client.  Or please tell me I’m wrong?

[dericchan1]

13 minutes ago, sworksone said:

A couple of stumbling blocks already.  Is it not possible to use Jplay with HQPlayer Desktop - only Embedded?  Also can’t access local library only Tidal / Qobuz?  The latter isn’t a deal breaker for me however the first is an issue with my current set-up.

 

@Miska Any plans to add the ability to create and edit combined local library and Qobuz playlists within Client?  I’ve been using Client more and more lately for the amazing sound quality (and thank you so much for the iOS app) and now that I’m getting used to it, this is the only thing I feel I’m really missing.  There are a few other items that would be a nice to have (song lyrics / ability to search Qobuz and local library simultaneously / etc) but I keep going back to Roon primarily due to the lack of playlist creation / editing in Client.  Or please tell me I’m wrong?

Jplay ios with HQplayer desktop will work but gets more complicated than using embedded as it will involve the use of a UPNP server and an input NAA

 

Flow as such: jPlay iOS UPNP -> UPNP media server (say a mini pc or raspberry pi running foobar or jriver) and you would select "hqplayer as default speaker", USB out to an input NAA (raspberry pi 4) then usb out to your hqplayer desktop PC

 

Its not optimal but it will work .

[fgribas]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

 

I never heard about RAAT being used between Roon and HQPlayer. What's your source of information?

 

Unless something changed in recent months, that's the way is done. In Roon ecosystem, Roon Server always streams audio to the endpoints, it doesn't act as a controller. If it could be a UPnP controller, that would be killer. But it seems Roon doesn't want it.

 

You can confirm the information by checking hqplayer log. You won't see hqp loading the flac file from qobuz/tidal servers. You will see data coming from a local Roon server. Again, if something changed recently,  I'm not aware as I'm not using Roon anymore.

 

You can also confirm by killing raatserver process while playing music. Audio will stop, even if Roon continues working. After you kill the process, roon config also stops seeing all the endpoints for a moment, then raatserver proces is automatically restarted, and the endpoints reappear. It was like that a while ago, at least.

 

Oh, and if you change the raatseerver process priority from normal to real-time, you should notice an improvement in sound. 

 

Maybe Roon Arc changed everything now. Honestly I don't know and won't find out. If that didn't change, all the above is true. 

[fgribas]

21 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Jplay ios with HQplayer desktop will work but gets more complicated than using embedded as it will involve the use of a UPNP server and an input NAA

 

Flow as such: jPlay iOS UPNP -> UPNP media server (say a mini pc or raspberry pi running foobar or jriver) and you would select "hqplayer as default speaker", USB out to an input NAA (raspberry pi 4) then usb out to your hqplayer desktop PC

 

Its not optimal but it will work .

 

Yeah that's it. In my opinion it doesn't worth, but it works as you said. Almost sure it will degrade the sound as well.

 

I have HQP Desktop too, since v3. I bought HQP Embedded license last month and it was totally worth. 

[dericchan1]

8 minutes ago, fgribas said:

 

Yeah that's it. In my opinion it doesn't worth, but it works as you said. Almost sure it will degrade the sound as well.

 

I have HQP Desktop too, since v3. I bought HQP Embedded license last month and it was totally worth. 

I agreed too much hassle. Initially I also found the sound quality degrade compared to going HQP client direct. Then I realized in jriver I have set as default using jriver dithering. I turned that off to no dithering and its just transferring bitperfect to HQP, it seems to have sounded much better now, I am not sure if it sound much different from going from jplay to embedded directly. 

 

I have been testing the trial version of embedded with jplay and are really happy with the simplicity tho.

[blackhawk579]

Can't help but be a bit disheartened to hear this after signing up for Roon lifetime in 2022.   I just picked up HQPlayer last month and enjoying it.   Bought new 14900K, 32GB, w/ 4070TI Super PC to run it.   Excellent.   Running Roon Server w/ Focus Fidelity generated convolution filters on Synology NAS, using new PC for HQPLAYER / ROON client.   

 

Looks like i am leaving performance on the table Roon and maybe a bit not running embedded.   Will be hard to move away from Roon....    any maximizations for those sticking with Roon are appreciated.   I dont think i can ditch it.  

 

  

 

[dericchan1]

51 minutes ago, blackhawk579 said:

Can't help but be a bit disheartened to hear this after signing up for Roon lifetime in 2022.   I just picked up HQPlayer last month and enjoying it.   Bought new 14900K, 32GB, w/ 4070TI Super PC to run it.   Excellent.   Running Roon Server w/ Focus Fidelity generated convolution filters on Synology NAS, using new PC for HQPLAYER / ROON client.   

 

Looks like i am leaving performance on the table Roon and maybe a bit not running embedded.   Will be hard to move away from Roon....    any maximizations for those sticking with Roon are appreciated.   I dont think i can ditch it.  

 

  

 

No need to ditch anything really. With hqplayer you have a choice. 
 

when I have friends over and I want to impress? I would use hqp client.

 

For my favorite albums or I feel like a critical listening session, I would  use hqp client.

 

when you don’t have a clue what to listen to and don’t want to take the time to choose or just like some music to play in the background, roon is an excellent choice for that 

[EMINENT]

3 hours ago, fgribas said:

 

Unless something changed in recent months, that's the way is done. In Roon ecosystem, Roon Server always streams audio to the endpoints, it doesn't act as a controller. If it could be a UPnP controller, that would be killer. But it seems Roon doesn't want it.

 

You can confirm the information by checking hqplayer log. You won't see hqp loading the flac file from qobuz/tidal servers. You will see data coming from a local Roon server. Again, if something changed recently,  I'm not aware as I'm not using Roon anymore.

 

You can also confirm by killing raatserver process while playing music. Audio will stop, even if Roon continues working. After you kill the process, roon config also stops seeing all the endpoints for a moment, then raatserver proces is automatically restarted, and the endpoints reappear. It was like that a while ago, at least.

 

Oh, and if you change the raatseerver process priority from normal to real-time, you should notice an improvement in sound. 

 

Maybe Roon Arc changed everything now. Honestly I don't know and won't find out. If that didn't change, all the above is true. 

 

Halau.

 

I report.

Raatserver is utilized when you have a locally attached DAC since 2017.

 

In instances where it is not direct, the process may be ended with no interruption to playback as I have tested. 

[bogi]

6 hours ago, fgribas said:

Unless something changed in recent months, that's the way is done.

 

I'm speaking about RAAT protocol you claimed, not about streaming as such. I know that Roon is streaming audio content to HQPlayer and that it makes the difference against streaming Qobuz using HQPlayer Client or in UPnP way. Miska also more times confirmed it and told that a customized solution is used here. I didn't find any mention about RAAT between Roon and HQPlayer anywhere except your posts, therefore I asked you for source of that information. You provided none. I do not wish a misinformation is starting to be spread based only on opinion of some user without any confirmation from the side of product creators. People easily start to repeat a misinformation.

[bogi]

7 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Flow as such: jPlay iOS UPNP -> UPNP media server (say a mini pc or raspberry pi running foobar or jriver) and you would select "hqplayer as default speaker", USB out to an input NAA (raspberry pi 4) then usb out to your hqplayer desktop PC

 

Its not optimal but it will work .

Miska mentioned more times the way Apple Music on [iOS] ---USB---> [input NAA] ---LAN---> [HQPlayer], that's one mini computer less in the path. Isn't that possible with jPlay too? Can jPlay on iOS play Qobuz to headphones? If yes, IMO it should work directly to input NAA without an extra UPnP Rendeder on another mini computer. I just don't know if jPlay on iOS could play bit perfect to input NAA.

 

Other way where one can save one mini computer of your path (input NAA in this case) is without possibility of automatic rate switching, see Stream to HQPlayer Desktop from foobar2000. In this case foobar2000 works as UPnP renderer but sends it output as endless http stream (something like radio stations or IceCast) to HQPlayer Desktop. Sound is excellent that way.

[dericchan1]

47 minutes ago, bogi said:

Miska mentioned more times the way Apple Music on [iOS] ---USB---> [input NAA] ---LAN---> [HQPlayer], that's one mini computer less in the path. Isn't that possible with jPlay too? Can jPlay on iOS play Qobuz to headphones? If yes, IMO it should work directly to input NAA without an extra UPnP Rendeder on another mini computer. I just don't know if jPlay on iOS could play bit perfect to input NAA.

 

Other way where one can save one mini computer of your path (input NAA in this case) is without possibility of automatic rate switching, see Stream to HQPlayer Desktop from foobar2000. In this case foobar2000 works as UPnP renderer but sends it output as endless http stream (something like radio stations or IceCast) to HQPlayer Desktop. Sound is excellent that way.

Actually this might be a question @Miska

For networkaudiod bookworm version, is there a .xml setting/config file that we can go in and choose between usb host vs peripheral?

 

I wonder if this might be a possibility to reduce one device in the chain to go as follows:

 

Jplay iOS or mconnect upnp to Rpi5 with networkaudiod set to input NAA, then usb c out to hqplayer desktop?

 

Thanks

 

Deric 

[bogi]

11 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Jplay iOS or mconnect upnp to Rpi5 with networkaudiod set to input NAA, then usb c out to hqplayer desktop?

 

I meant jPlay or mconnect on iOS via USB to input NAA and then of course LAN to HQPlayer Desktop.
Miska mentioned that way for Apple Music.
I just don't know if these apps can play bitperfect to an audio device like "hqplayer as default speaker". I'm not iOS user.

[stefano_mbp]

9 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Jplay iOS or mconnect upnp to Rpi5 with networkaudiod set to input NAA, then usb c out to hqplayer desktop?

In this configuration the UPNP renderer is missing … NAA isn’t a UPNP renderer, while HQPe is.

[dericchan1]

1 minute ago, bogi said:

 

I meant jPlay or mconnect on iOS via USB to input NAA and then of course LAN to HQPlayer Desktop.
Miska mentioned that way for Apple Music.

I know what you meant and of course that will work but it’s not a practical way when I have to physically connect an iPad or iPhone by usb to a rpi4 input NAA. That defeats the purpose of using jplay iOS as a remote control solution 

[dericchan1]

2 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

In this configuration the UPNP renderer is missing … NAA isn’t a UPNP renderer, while HQPe is.

Yes I know that the renderer is missing. I will still need to install something like jriver or plex or kodi as renderer within the same rpi5 and select “hqplayer” as the output device.

 

So the same rpi5 is running a upnp renderer app AND networkaudiod. I wonder if that is a possibility but I guess only Miska would know